Hung up on money?
 

Now, I'm sure this will provoke a bit of emotive response but we'll see what happens .....

Now, I'm not the worlds best orator, nor do I write the worlds best documentation. I am known to be direct (despite fil2 thinking I was 50 years old from how I come across on the board!!!! I'm 29 damn it! 29!) so I'll just say what I'm thinking. I mean no offence to anyone via this post, I'm just trying to open up a discussion on an issue that I find myself divided on.

I've noticed over the last few months that there is a distinct dislike/bias from people who position themselves as not having much money compared to this who do have more disposable income. Desmo Due has highlighted this somewhat and so has my time on some other forums - non DSC. Why is this so? Why can there be such a hang-up about this? There doesn't seem to be such a big deal made of this in Aus as there is here - is it a hangover of the English classes or is it still alive and well?

Do we get too hung up on this? Does it really matter if one person has more disposable income than someone else? On one thread there seemed to be an attitude from some members that if you didn't do the work yourself and just paid for something to be done on your bike then you were a bling merchant and you didn't have the credibility that you would otherwise have had through personal graft.

Why am I divided? Well, I joined the Aus Army when I was 16 as an electronics apprentice. So that means I didn't finish high school, never went to University etc. Although thats not entirely true, I started doing my MBA last year but couldn't afford the time it was taking. I've done component level repair on cryptographic devices and operated HF, VHF and satellite systems bearers in telecommunications. I then moved into IT and was self taught before leaving the Army with nearly 7 years service under my belt. I did a lot of things myself and was fairly enterprising in what I would do for myself - BUT, I had feck all money. I was married with children a at a very yound age and we had bugger all. After leaving the Army and going into private enterprise in IT I started to lose my time. I earned more money but lost a lot of personal time because of it. Especially with the studying which is neverending in IT - Microsoft release a new operating system every 15 minutes and change their deployment strategy every 5 minutes. This leaves me with less time to do the things I'd like to be able to do and things that I used to get that sense of satisfaction you get from doing the job right yourself (having said that I can get that satisfaction from work, just not as often due to office politics and other crapola).

The flip side to this is that I now have a larger disposable income than I had before. Which means that although I have less time than I used to (my first year at BP I averaged a 59.6 billable hours a week over the 52 weeks despite the holiday's, although this has tailed off since about July last year) I can choose to spend the time I have left the way I want to - with my wife/children, playing sport, with the bike rather than anything else. Probably easier for me to explain that I now value my time more than money.

Does this make me a bad person? Am I now a bling merchant because I have a cleaner who comes to the house and because I get the majority of my bike work done by someone other than myself? Because I can afford to buy a 620 instead of a 600 for Desmo Due? Because I would big-bore the 620 if there was no gentlemans agreement? Because I can afford to have someone do the majority of prep-work for me on the bike? Because I own two Ducati's now, a van and the family car?

You tell me?

I can see both sides of the situation but for me, the overriding principle is that everyone is in a different situation and that people's situations are always evolving. My personal situation has changed dramatically over the last 10 years (my 10th wedding anniversary in November!) and anyone else's could.

Do you feel it's justified to complain because you have no money and someone else has? Perhaps you feel justified to complain about people having no money when they could do something about it and get more?

As I said at the top of this post, I don't mean to offend any individual on this board I'm merely putting this up for debate.

What say you - the DSC masses?

you earnt yer money you spend it-save it, how you like
no skin off my nose
god help any one that tells me what to do with mine!!!
not meant as an aggressive reply just my thoughts
if i had every penny owed to me over the last three years of trading thru bounced checks bad payers etc i could rush out and buy me self a nice desmodici or nice sports car and then spend a fortune on having it serviced and looked after by specialists but im happy with my little 600 and tinkering with it my self cos thats what i like doing and i understand how it works as for cpu's eproms management systems i havent got a clue--i'm a bricklayer by trade how many of those people that know about cpu's management systems etc know how to build barley twist chimneys,decorative dental detail or even know what unsupported corbelling entails---

my point is---- horses for courses -every ones different- live and let live-
oh and no jokes about thick brickies please i have a teachers degree!!;)

Just the one cleaner then Tony? Ali has a butler and is therefore significantly richer than yow!

Unfortunately it’s just human nature to compare ourselves with others.

Fortunately my parents never made an issue of what they had and didn’t have. But they did instil the fact that money can’t bring happiness (although is goes along way towards paying for some in certain countries)

We’re all living in a world saturated in marketing. Everywhere we look there’s a billboard or advert telling us what we need.

I need a house, clothing, food and wine. Everything else is a bonus

Money or the appearance of money is one of those sensitive subjects. And like most things appearance can be deceptive.

I know several people that have very high incomes, but live very carefully, while others earning much less that spend every penny

I respect people that can do all the modifications and servicing themselves, but I just don't have the skills or time myself. So I have to pay and have someone else do the work

Good post Tp.
I have always thought time was more important than money, thats probably why I don't have any!
No, my recent career change is to blame, but things will start looking up soon.
I think you're right, there does seem to me to be a bit of a defensive response among people if someone has more money than them. I think it's mainly down to envy myself. I would never diss someone for paying to have work done on their bike, or anything else! Not everyone has the skills to do something themselves, and heck, if I could afford to pay people to service my baby, I would!
Like I said at the beginnig, time is more important to me than money :D

for me it all come down to time as well.

i use the money i have to free up time to spend enjoying myself, be that out for meals with my wife/holidays/nights out with friends etc.

i am lucky that it is possible for me to get someone to do stuff on my bikes or to have a cleaner for the house etc.
that said i have been in the position in the past where i literally havnt had a penny to my name; all overdraughts/loans used up and no cash at all in my pocket and am fully aware that i could possible be there again.

so i try to enjoy it while i can.

life's not a dress rehearsal.

Time's the key for me too. I've had a number of career changes in the past 7 years since leaving the Navy. All of them aimed at getting more time back for me.

Some have meant a substantial drop in income :( but I have more time for family etc now. Some were a big risk, including the time I was made redundant on the first day in a job :o

Ebay is my friend, and on a few occassions I've helped people out with websites, IT issues etc in exchange for tyres, servicing and the like. Not just with Ducati's but my previous UJM's as well, particularly when cash is tight.

When I first lived with annette many years ago we had so little money we lived in rent free accomadation. we lived on the bread line for years, I sold my bike to raise the deposit on our first house and we could barely afford to live for the first 2 years of house ownership.
Now both annette and i work we have no children so financialy we are luckier than a lot of people in that our only liability is our mortgage. Up untill 5 years ago I worked 6 days a week 52 weeks a year as I built my business up, I now take time off for track days, long weekends away at races in europe and close my garage over christmas/ new year. this has cost me a noticable amount but as other people have said money is not everything and time with annette is precious ( someday I will be able to take annette on a proper holiday rather than long weekends but staff problems prevent that at the moment).
Having no responsabilities means I can indulge myself and buy the bikes I want, but we do tend to use them and I cannot bring myself to spend large amounts of money on bling items, this being a product of having no money for so long.
I repair cars for a living and other than fit tyres/chains/ change pads I do not do any work on my bikes ( other than repairing accident damage)I respect people who do all thier own maintenence but cannot face more mechanical work so I pay someone else to do it. If I won the lottery or god forbid my company went bust I would have the time and the inclanation to work on the bikes(mind you washing them might be a start).

dave

*Devils advocate*

so what of social responsibility?? Should those 'with' keep harping on while those without 'sit at the back and stay quiet'??

This board is a mini community - and a faceless one at that. Without expression etc, its sometimes difficult to undertstand a point being made...weeksy sums it up well above. Of course, while someone is posting their latest spend spend spend spree, someone else will be on the verge of bancruptcy, thats life! Just have the understanding to see this if you dont want to offened.

I for one would love to have the ability to do my own stuff but, has proved A LOT!! I dont, I pay people not thru chioce but because I have too.

Time is more important than money...when you can pay the bills! And some posts on here can be so patronising its no wonder people get the hump.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>BE DIFFERENT<<<<<<<<<<<<<<DISAGREE>>>>>>>>>HAVE FUN<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

Paying it back is takes infinitely longer than borrowing it ......

Welcome to Dibbles world .... :)

remarkably similar to mie.....:devil:

I am in the lucky position, due to my choice of career, in having the time and skills to do all the work myself, OR the money to pay someone else to do it. My choice which way I go. But unlike some, until now I have never felt the need to state that, which is why I started the thread on elitism.

Can we get back to bikes now?
You know, riding them & stuff.....
Just a thought. :)

I generally find that the less money I've got the more hung up on it I tend to be.

Although the threat of redundancy has been quite real for the last few years and I pretty much get employed from project to project, and even though we've had all pay increase frozen for the last 3 years which has seen me slipping behind people in other companies, I've got a pretty good job which pays well.

But I know what it's like in the world of big, big debt. My wife had a flourishing little DTP business right back in it's earliest days around 1987, but it went under in the big recession at the tail end of 1990. The fallout from this business folding went on for 10 years of continual debt and fear of opening the mail in case somebody was taking us to court. At one stage it got so bad that we lliterally scraped down the back of the sofa to find money for food, and when we found none, the whole family lived on porridge oats for a week until payday. From a position where, for quite a few years, we had a combined income of around four or five times the national average, we suddenly found ourselves with absolutely nothing and a mountain of business debt.

Painful times, but would I have had it any other way? No.

It taught me a lot. It taught me that anybody, and I mean anybody, could find themselves in that position overnight. It taught me that my marriage can withstand pressures that not many marriages have to go through, it taught me that the most important thing you can give to your kids is love instead of the latest Nike trainers, and I hope it turned me from a brash, boastful, money grubbing snot into somebody with a sense of fair play, balance and humility.

I fully accept that, unless I win the lottery, or wake up and find I've turned into Bill Gates, that a lot of people are always going to have a lot more money than me. Good luck to all of them. Unless they're the likes of Prince Edward they've probably worked hard for it, taken risks and come up trumps.

If that manifests itself on this site as those people being able to cover their Ducati in expensive billet and carbon, or have multiple bikes, or being able to race? Fantastic. Don't begrudge it at all.

What I do begrudge are the (thankfully few) comments such as (and I'm obviously paraphrasing here) "Oh, you've just got the baby R then" from a 999R owner to the proud owner of a new 749R. Frankly, I find that patronising.

I will also freely admit that I would have liked to see the DesmoDue rules made tighter from the start. The very first announcement of the series indicated that it was intended for the novice and was specifically set out to avoid 'cheque book' racing. Having taken part in a fair bit of motorsport, I'm not naive enough to think that you can race with anything other than a fair sized healthy cheque book. However, it's clear that some people have a significant advantage simply because, with the rules as they are, they can afford a more competitive machine. So I would like to see some of the shoestring teams beat the relatively well funded ones, but that's not because I'm green with envy over the sze of some peoples bank balance, it's simply because I've always supported the underdog.

Too cold and salty to ride at the moment Andy!

Totally agree with Jools about the DesmoDue thing as well.

its a bit off thread but i honestly dont think anyone will have a significant advantage due to funds. i think all the bikes will be within a whisker of each other in terms of performance now. imho, you would be able to put the podium finishers on any of the others bikes on the grid and they would probably finish in the same position.

If you are talking about racing there is this well worn Cliche,

"Speed costs money how fast do ya wanna go?"

Talent can't be bought, generally speaking, but practice can help.

If you want some more cliches

"Money can't buy you happiness.................but it means you can rent it for a while".

I could go on.....................................but work beckons,

Ray.

PS its all bout how in Ya face people are about money stuff. In the DSC context you ride what you ride, you buy what you buy, you spend what you spend, how much "noise" you make about it is the crux of the matter IMHO. Yep there is an element of good natured on upmanship (+) no bad thing on the whole but there is also an ego element (-)

[Edited on 28-2-2005 by Ray]

I work in the building industry, every site I go on to i will have some other trade going on about what floor tilers are earning. come on then mate what sort of money do you get per metre, why do they want to know, will it make them feel better? when laying a limestone or marble floor then the questions really start regarding money. In the end i told one guy who pestered me that i have been getting £380 per day laying marble, he never came near me again. ( i lied about the money) I work hard to buy all the things my family want/need, plus my hobbies. I had years where i would buy £2.00 worth of petrol all with 2p's and 1p's. Now I find myself going through fazes where I work 7 days a week, cant stop myself, its not the money, but the fear of being out of work some day. i find it hard to turn people down ( especially with very big kitchens/conservatorys). Now seeing as there are a few wealthy people on this site, do you need some very nice marble/limestone?

Damn, reading this I think i need to see a shrink:D

[Edited on 28-2-2005 by adam]

I have just about enough money to get by and have some fun. Separated and will prob get screwed by the ex soon so my duke is all I got that keeps me happy apart from a nice lady Im getting to know. The bikes a piece of metal at the end of the day and is replaceable and saleable if the circumstances need.I cant afford much so will make do and buy whatever and whenever allowed. I have no problem with any one with money and how many bikes they ride. I still have to sell one bike as its no point keeping it. I get on with all and if they think Im worthy then will befriend me.And also the other way round.

We must just consider ourselves lucky to experience a Ducati, most people see it as a dream, some people turn it into a reality by hard work and a bit of ducking and diving. I have been saving for 3 years, doing extra work and putting it into a bank account, then forgetting about it.

Money deos not bring happiness, just gives you choices.All I have done is worked my arse off for 17 years since I left school with no qualifications and got there eventually.

Just got my first Duke and am just looking forward to the experience.It does not matter what bits it has got on it, just enjoy it!

simon

Any way we lived in cardboard box in middle of road, and when our mothers and fathers got home they use to kill us, tell that to the kids of today and they just don’t believe you.

:P

My first real business was selling pens outside Chadwell heath bingo hall to ladies in the que.
The fact that I got the pens from the bins at the back meant that it didn’t last to long. (First lesson, always supply a quality product)
I was 10 years old at the time and was also helping out with a milk round a paper round and a Vernon pools round.

At the age of thirteen I started working in a dress factory as cutter. (Second lesson, they may not always be the fairer sex)

At fourteen I was asked to leave school and went to work on a building site with no qualifications and a severe case of Dyslexia (lessen three your back is not fully developed at the age of fourteen)

At sixteen I got in to house painting in the city with a company called Ceanwalls they specialised in high class work for amongst others David frost and John Paul Getty, who at the time I worked for him was one of the richest men in the would. His son would come and chat to me about his old man and show me his missing ear. His wife suffered from polio and did not like to be seen in public, so the butler would take her their after hours to shop alone (Lesson four, how the other half live and don’t even trust your old man were moneys concerned)

David Frost would come out of his house Pi**ed get in to his car and smash his way out of his parking space leaving the wreckage of the cars parked in front and behind, this he did on a daily basis for the eight weeks we were there. (Lots of money No F***ing respect)

I have had my own businesses for the last twenty years now with varying degrees of success and failure
A retail window company with fifty staff (lesson five, you can turnover millions and earn nothing)

My current business in commercial windows has been the most stable and profitable for me but has taken a tremendous toll on my family’s and my personal time with its demands.

For the last two years I have been studying for my R Y A Yacht master, I have been sailing all my life working my way on to boats, racing other peoples boats for them. I intend to retire once my son is finely on he’s way and go for a very long sail in the med.

Life is what you make it, when I got no money I pull me horns in sell me toys get stuck in again, if you do the day comes when you get your toys back.
If you don’t then I don’t know what happens coz I’ve always dun that.

Now if life was strait forward that would be it, but this is life so whether I have money or not, wear my Ducati is concerned I will totally disregard my personal flushness and will lie to my wife, beg borrow or seal any item of good quality Bling that I can lay my hands on.

Its not money that maters on here it’s the bikes, if someone goes out and spends an obscene amount of money on a Ducati, I for one would love to see it and if someone’s got Two bob and an old shi*er I want to see that to and go on the same ride out, drink bear in the same pub and talk bikes, now wears that fu**ing sun>







:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I really think any discussion about wealth or lack of it is irrelevant within the context of the DSC. Why should anyone judge anyone else by how much money they have or have not? Come to that, why should anyone judge anyone else full stop? We post on this board because we love our Ducatis and want to talk about it.

It's a passion and the best things in life are free, so why should anyone make any judgements about another club member on the basis of money, or lack of it? There are people in this club who've spent their last penny on their bikes, and others who could afford to buy the latest, most expensive trick bits without batting an eye lid. So what? That's not why people look at this board and it's completely irrelevant from the point of view of enjoying being involved in the club, IMHO.

[quote]Originally posted by DIBBLE
I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

I borrow it, I spend it, i pay it back ....

Paying it back is proving a far bigger problem than i thought it would be

i just cant stop robbing peter to pay paul, 1 day i may pay it all back but i very much doubt it !!!

welcome to avers's daft financial world

I think desmojen put it quite succinctly ( sp ? )

Envy !

Thats what it boils down to... in varying degrees of course, from a mild shade of apple white to full on GREEN !

It’s from a Monty Python sketch about how hard our parents had it.

I think I am very fortunate I work a shift, well at present anyway, that gives me an enviable amount of time at home. The down side is that the pay ain't brilliant, very difficult to have both, but it’s the way I like it. At present I’m at home doing a lot of baby sitting and have been for the last couple of years which can make winter a drag sometimes when you’re stuck in the house day after day, tiered because of the shifts looking after 2 board kids under the age of 4. But I still wouldn’t trade it for more money, as a bloke I feel I’m quite close to my kids and I hope that will work out to my advantage when they are older, and we do have a laugh!
Previous to this I had all the time in the world to do the things that I wanted to do, with in the realms of what I could afford, rebuild a couple of old British bikes and went to all the places I liked going to at times when everyone else was at work, great! Restored a Victorian terraced house then moved to my present house and completed that. I love my time off and it’s worth five grand a year to me.
Unfortunately nothing lasts for ever and the shift Patten I work is about to change, my wife also works shifts and I haven’t even thought about how we are going to balance our lives, then I will have reasonable pay with crap hours so I might have something to moan about.
Anyway we need wealthy people to buy those expensive trick bit for there bikes and then sell them cheap to me when they’ve finished with them on ebay!
I like bling if I was considerably richer than yow I would have lots of it, I would also pay to have some one service my bike just to stop my Missis moaning about how much time I spend playing with it, I wouldn’t need my pass stamped then every time I try and go for a blast! :lol:

s.p,

i think you have it about right re jobs. most jobs have their upsides and downsides and if you are a positive person then you make the best of the upsides.
someone may earn less money but have more quality time at home with husbands/wives and kids. how much is that worth?
or you maybe in a job with no stress and could do it standing on your head. what price a stress free job?

for me, i work longish hours, in a stressfull enviroment where one cock up could lose me my job. how much is that costing me in the long run?

spot on :)

sorry, not being offensive but thats tosh. Not everyone is envious of wealth. some are v happy with their lot and actually (belive it or not, your chioce) genuinely welcome success for others without the need to contain the green eyed monster....not me you understand:frog:

Interesting discussion ...
 

... you could let happen what's happened to me - grow old and pay off your mortgage, see your kids become independent and then spend the released income on motorcycles :smug:

Adam

Marble, mmmmm!

Adam anychance of a nice marble clutch casing so i can out bling Mav please?:lol:


:rodent: BDG, memo from Jools' rodent, please don't joke this is a serious topic

[Edited on 1-3-2005 by BDG]

OutBling Mav!!! Not unless you get some white marble wheels :devil:

You wait until you see my new one piece spandex racing suit :lol::lol::lol:

i winge and moan about money with the best of them
but at the end of the day i can't be bothered to work hard enough to earn any more
it's not that important

i know every one has different prioritys but i cant understand these people who's lives revolve around the job/premotion ladder.
i know people that are so stressed that they are fit to burst trying to meet dead lines etc
women who have kids that instantly go to a crech so that they dont miss out on a few months worth of money

once i punch the clock thats it , no worries
so i dont earn a lot. but what have they got that i aint?
i get quite a few bits second hand but i still have every thing in my home that someone on 60K might have.
two holidays most years, ok it's camping
car and a bike
couple of bottles of red a week
maybe a bit of steak now and then
three darling kids who dont want for anything they need.
and no stress

as i said earlier people have different priorities and if thats what rocks your boat fair play to ya

would i swap my life for anyone elses, nope. ive got everything i could ask for. and think of myself as very well off, though damn skint most off the time.

hope ive not offended anyone this is just my veiw on life and it works for me.

Glyn

Great post bud..!....kinda brought a lump to my throat.....you forgot to mention good mates and good rideouts lol......i count myself to know you mate...

Next time the hot chocolates are on U..

Phil

"it is what we value not what we have that makes us rich."

cant remember where it comes from but its true.

Very interesting thread with some cracking responses.

As someone towards the bottom of the income ladder I have to say I disagree with the envy comments. If someone has worked for the money then good on them, if its been gifted to them then, thats just the luck of the draw.

I must admit it does sadden me a little when I think that there will probably never be a 999R etc in my garage but there again, unless I win the lottery riding a bike worth THAT much money would scare me everytime I tried to park it up - especially in the north east!!!

I take comfort that one of my dreams has been achieved and I have a shiney (but old) red Ducati in the garage - next points - I prefer to know as much about my bike as possible for when the damn thing (inevitably) breaks down. I'll do as much as I possibly can - then I might have to go to a specialist etc. I do find a certain satisfaction in knowing almost every nut, bolt and crazy modification on my bike.

DemsoDue - Isnt it just about the thrill of trying your hand at racing? To be able to say you were on the start line with 30 other racers at Cadwell park!!!

If anyone is going out there to win at all costs(!) I hope that they are in
the wrong series.

Where did my soapbox go? :devil:

Cheers - Frank

Society...That's the problem here. What we "need" is thrust at us from every angle.
Because of commercialism we are conditioned to want what our neighbours have.

It's not envy Hells...Its manipulation.

I tell my kids and Class "You NEED love, a bath, food, water and clothes"...Everything else is a bonus.


I dont watch much TV.;)

Glyn, nice way of putting things into prospectus. We are what we are, not what we've got. I dont look at people as how much money they have, I have good friends that have made serious money who i can share a pint with, who are just as happy eating ham egg and chips down the local cafe and splitting a round of drinks. People, are the real thing that make our world go round,which is what I see in your thread especially family if we can all get on together, dispit how much dosh there is in each man's wallet so much the better.The fact that one man rides a 999 or another rides a 996 another a 748 full of carbon bits just makes for a blooming good ride out and good banter at the pit stops.Regards 4D ( Any one lend us a tenner):lol: