Unreasonable?
 

Please tell me if I am being unreasonable here as I am getting pretty fed up of this .... (sorry for the long explanation)

Last Sept I booked 2 places with a certain trackday company. I paid for one and was due to pay for other place on the day. Later the same day we realised we couldn't go as I had got dates wrong. I rang up immediately and explained and cancelled places. (within 4 hours)

After numerous phone calls from me and being passed around to different people who could or could not make a decision they finally said i could not have a refund but could have a credit note. Not ideal for me, but i accepted their conditions as i had little choice. After a few months of me ringing again I finally got said credit note in writing.
They had assured me they would be fully operational this year and I could use it whenever i wanted.

This year, said trackday company have changed their trackday list to a new style which involves acting as an agent for Donnington and then 'superbike schools' with a celebrity instructor. All these days are far more expensive and I am not interested in the superbike school.

The trackdays with this company are more expensive than others, but as i have the credit note i need to use it.

So i have just called to try and book a Donny day. I was informed that my credit didn't go against that as they were just an agent. My only other choice is superbike schools which are £50 more expensive than normal trackday. I explained politely why i didn't want this and was told that they would do 50% against a Donny day and I would have to use other 50% on another day.

My request is simple. I want to use my credit note against a Donny day and pay the difference. If they can do 50% then surely they can do this in full.

I was then told that I should have a think about it as the guy was a bit busy doing other stuff and was on his own. His comment that 'well there is no urgency in this is there' and could I call back next week made me very annoyed.

Am I being unreasonable about this? What can I/should I do?

I knew they would try and get out of this!!

Personally I would name and shame, and advise as many people as possible of their underhand tactics firstly, inform said company (Run by a well known racer) of the posts on various bike forums, then get onto the CAB and see what they say :flame:

I will wait for some feedback and see how they respond on Monday before I take this any further.

I was very polite on the phone and will give them chance to do the right thing, but if they continue to mess me around then I will take it further.

get stuck in there and show them what for ....

you've done right so far .....

[Edited on 11-3-2005 by DIBBLE]

No Lily I don't think you're being unreasonable.
They've been paid the money so why shouldn't you be allowed to use all the credit at once? The credit note is as good as a receipt of payment.
Name and shame!

Not going to name and shame just yet. will give them a chance to redeem themselves.

I know I am safe as none of this is slanderous, it's all fact, however we all have off days so they have one more chance. I just wanted to check that what I was expecting was sensible and not beyond reality.

Simply give me the credit note and you'll be free of this turmoil - sorted!

Yours for £130...

;)

Wooomen on motorcycccccles, racing around tracks, with credit cardzzzzzz having indipppppendant thoughts.......wwwwwhat evver next.

Never used to be like that in my day :puzzled:


Just let Mav and me know who it is and i'm sure it'll all go away :devil:

I say name & shame.

Even if they sort it on Monday for you, they've still messed you around which ain't really on.

At least we'll know to be careful with this company in the future.

TBH they don't have a great reputation for trackdays as it is.

The usual comments that are bandied around include:

Nutters on the track
Appalling safety briefing
Poor customer service
Have racers acting as 'instructors' that just use track day to practice, even in novice group.

I can't comment on all of their days, but i have first hand experience of some of these.

I have done one of those "celebrity" days, at that location with i guess that celeb.

I have to say it was a poor day and badly organised, although undersubscribed so lots of track space! which he commented on as "we've lost money today" As if i give a shtt what money he makes!

Id say stick to the commentating!:o

The selling point I guess of this company is the ex-wsb/wss rider!

I'd see if this stirs up enough views, and on other forums, like you have said you're not stating anything but the facts, you have it in writing that you have credit with this company, but they are refusing to let you use this credit which in itself is unreasonable.

Inform them of the threads, the view counts etc on each forum posted and see if that will sway them, explain that if they REFUND the money you will delete said threads and/or apologise etc.

All of the hassle and grief this has caused you for 6 months now I wouldn't want to actually do one of their trackdays again, I'd rather give the money to a trackday company who do as they say, and in my view provide a far better service, let alone cheaper also.

If that doesn't convince them, then get Mav to have a word, I'm sure he'll come up trumps, and also get the likes of MCN etc involved, get the masses to see what their business practice is like.

This comment is spot on and I agree precisely. I'm sure I know who you are talking about as well and its worth pointing them towards this thread as it reaches a large community.

Also, the MCN idea is good. We should get Michael Neeves to run a survey of track day companies !! :smug:

Also - start a thread on Visordown - someone will name and shame them and prove it isn't just whinging Ducati owners!!!

This is people power. Isnt it strange how we and me are sort of scared to name and shame. If you look at another current thread re an outlet company, we cant all be wrong.

If i ran one of these companies i would want this feed back to change, but a bit like, i dont care if they make a profit or not, they dont care as long as they do make a profit!

Ah, quality of service!

Andy

I will happily name and shame if they do not resolve this. I don't think that I am being unreasonable and I am actually going to be booking another place at the same time so they will be making extra money as well as the credit note and cash on top.

For me a good track day is not just about it running smoothly and safely, its about the whole experience of booking and customer service all round.

Its for this reason that I prefer No Limits days. Mark and his crew are always freindly, helpful, polite as well as the days being well organised and safe.

I appreciate its a difficult industry, however the differentiator is what makes you return to a company and in such a competetive environment customer service is going to be key to this.

Toatally agree. I wasnt having a go at you mate, more isnt it a sad indictment on society that we are unable to complain, especially when so many appear to have the same experiences.

Seems reasonable to me, you need to get on the attack, not just on the track. Attack? Track? Attack? Now I am just rambling.;)

imho, for what its worth, don't wait till monday - name and shame now.

IF, this company is nationwide and as "popular" as is being intimated, then just think about the service that you will be doing for other people about to book a track day.

I can appreciate the frustration or indignation but to threaten the company with "pay me and I'll remove the thread/apologise" frankly doesn't cut it. It's blackmail and it seems a pretty popular choice.

If you're going to name and shame I personally think you have got to stand your ground and relinquish the faint hope of getting your money back - but think about how much money you will save other riders and how many times the "celebrity" will have to utter "we lost money on this".

Wonder how long the celeb will stick around when they don't pay him.

Good luck with getting your money back.

Surely, everybody must know who it is by now anyway:-

Ex-wsb, ex-wss, tv commentator, runs a trackday company that has recently joined forces with Donington.:puzzled: :eureka:

I don't think you need to name & shame anymore or blackmail them. Just stick to your guns Lily.....you're in the right.

If it is James Whitham's set up, there seems to be plenty of unhappy punters ... mainly coming from the badly run / unsafe / no facilities / testosterone led sort of angle ....

Alan

I don't intend to remove the thread as nothing i have said is innacurate or defamatory it is fact. If people chose not to use this company because of my comments then it is up to them.

I think it is fairly clear who i am referring to, however I know I am in the right and I fully expect them to honour my credit note against a single track day. I am being fair by waiting until next week as they are busy, but if they refuse then at that point I will take it further.

I fail to see what the problem is here regarding naming the company. Whether they honour your voucher or not, this thread has already given them a bad name, the damage is already done. Stop buggering about, get it over and done with and just name them!

[Edited on 11-3-2005 by ath748]

Felix already has

I have chosen not to mention the company at this point and thats where I stand. It is fairly obvious who it is and other people have picked up on it.

I don't want to get into a slanging match about how good they are, I just wanted people's opinions on my situation in case I was overreacting.

Lily, I would probably do the same as yourself and would have no inclination to remove the thread. That was precisely my point. Whats said is said, what's done is done.
Honour your credit note?
Is that any way to run a business how they have been going about it so far?

Publish and be damned.
But then again, it'll probably get pulled by the webteam if you're not careful. And you don't wanna get pulled by the webteam.

Weeksy

I disagree

I have done a fair few track days and although many of the instructors are racers and if they are not taking someone round they may well 'test' a bit its not always the case and with many track day companies its not noticeable.

I have done trackdays with these before and although it doesn't particularly bother me (hence why i would use them) they do have a reputation for not having very good safety briefings and not having the best organisation or instructors. This is not just my opinion, this is something that is often bandied around by people who have been on or heard about their track days.

Maybe for racers like yourself that is a good thing, but many (possibly the majority) of people who do trackdays are not racers and don't want a race day they want a track day. Especially in novice groups.

But, my issue at this point is not really with how well they run their actual days its with their service to me as a customer.

I have no issue with their track days or track day reputation and this would not stop me using them, cuasing me inconvenience and trying to make it difficult for me to get fair treatment would.

Lil, why on earth are you waiting for them?
The customer is king, you have every right to get your credits sorted without any rubbish about representing Donnington. At the end of the day you paid money to the company, the fact that they may have to forward some of that to Donnington Park is not in any way your problem.
And as for, 'why don't you go away and think about it as I am busy' what sort of a bu*****t attitude is that!
Any business that is too busy to speak to thier customers does not deserve to have customers.
As for their trackdays, I agree with Weeksy on that one, I quite like the lack of nonsense, but that's just me :P

I agree that it had gone a bit like that I that's not really my intention tbh.

Personally I don't think they are the best run trackdays, certainly not for a novice, but as I am not and they have never done anything that has been a big crime in my eyes I am not intending to decry their track days. I do however, have first hand experience of very poor customer service and fobbing off and i don't think that is acceptable.

I don't do threats etc, but I will take this further if its not resolved.

ps..

i wasn't meaning to have any kind of dig about the 'racer' thing. Just suggesting that as a racer you have a different view to how a track day can and should be used, particularly by people who race. Not a criticism, just a difference of opinion on my part for novice and inters groups.

Weeksy, what would YOU do then? They have £130 of YOUR money and YOU have a credit note to confirm that... but THEY won't now let you use said credit note?

Trading standards me thinks?

I don't agree that you should wait either Lily, they have your money, you are their customer and they are extracting the urine.

Get in there!

Personally having been a retailer for many years I think you are being too kind on them.
You paid money in good faith, you chose to use a credit note than now won't honour I would be demanding my money back.

How did you pay Credit Card? Claim of them and let the bank fight for the refund!

Lily,

Without naming names the well known celebrity is actually a very nice guy, but his partner has a real reputation for selling his granny for a quid, and won't do anyone any favours, unless there's is something in return for him. I believe its him that handles the admin side. This is an opinion that i've heard many people voice rather than me bitching.

Have you had a word with the well celebrity himself?

I`ve only done one of their days,I know Rooney has done loads,going back to the early nineties.In my opinion/findings I found the breifing the most informative I`ve ever been on,with a sense of "Whit" chucked in,explaining every corner(Cadwell)on the track.I agree with some saying there is an element of "nutters"on track and on the day I was there(dry day)every session bar one was red flagged.I also agree that they are not the best company for novices and would say there fast group would compare to many inter groups with other companys,and there fast group does carry a lot of racers.But this is besides the point,if you feel you have been "ripped off" for want of a better phrase,it doesn`t matter who it is,celebrity racer or not.
I booked a trackday with another company last year,didn`t do that day(my fault, not theirs)rang them after the day and they credited me the money towards Brands GP!
I would be Pi**ed if I was you Lily:mad:


Any legal advice avaliable on the forum?

Redruth are you there?

Lilly, I don’t like to hear this sort of stuff about trackday companies, it casts a shadow over the whole industry which is striving to become reputable and customer focused.

So just to put my money where my mouth is, I will offer a Cadwell, Snetterton, Rockingham (national), Brands (Indy) or Pembrey day in exchange for their credit note.

I would just like to make clear that I have no connections with the above trackday company who issued the said credit note, but I don’t like to see Joe public being shafted, especially if they are DSC members.

Come see me at Superbike Sunday at the Ace Cafe this weekend or PM me.

Whele

Thats is a truly generous offer and most appreciated. I will drop you a u2u to discuss.

Shaun
I know a few people that know the partner and have not been complmentary, but as he is the only one that answers the phone I am not certain how to contact the main man.
Having met him at previous track days he is a top bloke, very witty and a nice bloke, but if he lets his partner treat customers this way he will not benefit from trying to pass on his skills and have a good business.

Said partner is just up the road from me and I might discuss this in person if I dont get much of a response.