Police Pilot & Speeding advice - 3rd May Resolution
 

Hi,

Recently stopped by the police for speeding and was hoping that someone may have some advice on Police Pilot that may help me. I have heard of stories of not being accurate, human error etc

In short I came off an island and accelerated along a dual carriage way and was pulled over 1 mile later. Copper claimed that he'd timed me over 0.6 of a mile at speeds up to 125mph and that my average was 102mph. His fixed marks were a "Road Scar" and a "change in road surface". Now I know I was speeding and will admit to 90 ... but I don't think I went from 30 odd to 125 and back down to 60mph and still managed a 102mph average all in 0.6 mile.

He did not caution me, inform me that he would summons me or sit me in the car to discuss this. He gave me a producer and made 4 mistakes filling it in.

I've now received a summons and the copper has lied through his teeth on it and signed it as a true statement.

I'm in court at the start of May and hoped that someone may have some advice that may help me with this case. I know that the police pilot relies on human input and have heard of errors being made .... does anyone have any hard evidence of discredited Police Pilot etc etc ?Text

[Edited on 3-5-2005 by Carbon749]

Carbob

Many yeras ago i was done for speeding, the details on the sumons was wrong, the location was wrong, my name was wrong and my registration number was wrong.
I went to court and pleaded not guilty and was told by the magistrate that if i continued to pleade not guilty then the court would just cancell the sumons and re issue another one with the corect details in it.

The officer who stopped me lied left right and centre on the documents that he filled in but I`m afraid the courts will always take the coppers word for it as there deemed to be a proffesional and impartial whitness.

In the end I was advised to plead guilty so as to reduce the fine.

My own feeling are that your on a hidding to nothing, unfortunatly there are rotten eggs in every basket and police forces are no exception.

If its worth anything I was done by the MET by a traffic officer based in Bromley and beleive it or not he actually came looking for me at my place of work after the case to find out what the outcome was.:mad:

Yep ..... understand what you have said.

My solicitor has advised me to plead guilty as there is no doubt that I was speeding, however, he has advised me to plead guilty to no more than 90mph and throw up enough of a stink about the way I was dealt with, errors etc etc that the court may just go with 3 points rather than try to argue it out with me.

Must admit I'm looking for any evidence of the Police Pilot being discredited. I have one story from a mag' were the reading of 125mph was the speed of the cop car trying to catch the bike, when they caught up with the bike it was doing 85mph. This is very much like my case but in the mag they had video which showed that it was the police car doing 125mph and not the bike.

Not sure if it's good or bad, but, no video.

Hi,

Just a few questions on this one, was he alone or with a partner, was the vehicle video equipped, did he show you any equipment readings, what mistakes did he make and what car was he driving?

Cannot promise anything but had a similar 'event' with a rather nasty Met. Officer, I eventually discredited him and his system, but it was not easy.

Cheers.

Wow, I'll try to answer the questions in order :

They were 2 up, no video that I'm aware of, did not sit me in the car but pointed to a red digital display that said 102mph then shut the door. Vauxhaul Astra or Vectra, not sure as the whole thing lasted no more than 5 mins because he was on another call and just stopped me on route.

Made 4 errors completing the producer: date, reg number, need for MOT and didn't ask me to self define ethnic group.

He did not read me my rights or tell me that he would summons me, however, when the summons came through 6 weeks later his signed statement to the court says that he did read me my rights and that he did inform me that he was going to summons me .... I know he's lying.

My solicitor say that we should use the fact that he made 4 mistakes completeing a form that he's filled in 1000's of times as proof that he was in a hurry and did not deal with me in the correct manner and that procedure was not followed.

I'm hoping someone out there will have proof of a discredited Police Pilot reading.

Again my solicitor says that with the speed and short distances involved the Police Pilot relies on human input and could be out by a few seconds making all the difference between 3 points and a ban.

When he said 102 mph , I`ll put money on it that that was the spead "he" reached trying to catch up with you. I`d question that fact as I know of others who have got away with it just on that fact, but don`t keep your hopes up.

Fully agree with you about 102mph being his average as he accellerated trying to catch up with me.

I came of an island, accelerated and then slowed as I caught tarffic. From the island to being stopped was 1.1mile .... I will argue that in that short distance it was not possible for me to reach that speeds that they are claiming ( a high of 125mph) and back to 60mph all in 0.6 of a mile and still average 102mph.

Solicitor thinks that by pleading guilty to a max of 90mph the court may go with me rather than try to fight about all the errors etc.

If the details on the nip for are wrong it shouldnt stand up in court at all

You have U2U

Festa
It don`t!

Tried the whole NIP being wrong, too long to issue etc etc

Whoever said they just ammend it are right, and that is OK and will stand up in court.

As for taking too long to issue the written NIP the police man claims he gave me a verbal notice at the time he stopped me (LIE) and again this is legal and will stand up in court.

Still looking far anyone that has or knows about Police Pilot being discredited.

Try here


http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/

http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/acpo1.htm

[Edited on 28-3-2005 by Mr_S]

If I were you I would definately plead not guilty and get yourself a solicitor that deals with these offences. If there are that amount of mistakes any decent solicitor would get it thrown out of court.
The best guy for the job if you have a very large budget is Nick Freeman who works out of Manchester he will easily get you off but I know there are others - whatever you do if you do go down the not guilty route is make sure that the barrister that comes to court is not a junior barrister cos they are crap. Any decent road traffic solicitor will probably defend it themselves or would use a heavy weight barrister which will cost. However if found not guilty you can claim a certain amount of this money back. If you want a chat about it then drop me a pm and I will give you my contyact details.
All the best
G

Hope it all goes the right way for you pal.

Post back the outcome, I'm sure we would all like to here how it went.

Take it easy, use them wee mirrors and watch your speed, theres always one tosser around the next bend...

Delooney.

Resolution
 

Hi,

To all those that offered support and advice, just thought you may like to know the outcome.

Went to court today and it looked bad. Whilst the judges listened to the facts about the mistakes that had been made on the HORT1 form and the hurried process etc they sided with the police officer in the end as it would have meant admitting that the police had made a mistake using the "police pilot speed device" if they had sided with me.

After all the facts were given etc etc all the court could seem to focus on was the statement the officer made when he said that I had reached speeds of 125mph with an average of 102mph over 0.61 mile.

Outcome - 6 points and £220 fine plus £120 costs. :o

Sounds a bit dodge - but I think you were lucky to get away without a ban if that's what they were focssed on.

Result - beer o'clock!

looks like you paid in price rather than your licence.
expensive but at least you are still on the road

Got 6 points & a £200 for doing 87.5 mph in a 60 7 years ago so that does not sound to bad.


Chris.:burn:

Was paying the fine a better outcome than a ban? I think you've done pretty well out of it, like Keefer says, at least you've still got your licence!

Time for more 100mph violations of a 30 zone :devil::devil::devil:

A mate of mine recently got stopped by police on the M27.
Apparently they informed him when he eventually stopped.
That they had been chasing him for miles and lost him only to catch him up when he slowed down and then he accelerated away again. When he slowed down again and the police caught up for the second time only then did he then see the police and stop. I don't know their exact words apart from your speed was 160mph :o
He knows that he is going to get a ban and awaits a court appearance and fine. He has recently put his bike on eBay.

he may want to tell his friend he may be away for a short time too

Carbon 749

Money, that's all there after at the end of the day.
They'd never ban you for it, they want you to go out and do it again so they can get some more dosh out of you.

What happened to crime preventation eh ?
Did they offer you any advice or comit to any changes in Policing that may stop other law abiding, non drug taking, community spirited people committing such an unlawful act ?

Tossers...

Delooney

[Edited on 5-5-2005 by Delooney]

I was happy (would rather have got off actually, but) to go for the points and not a ban.

A mate of mine got a 21 day ban in his car and then could not get insurance afterwards. At least with points I may pay a slight increase in premium but at least I will still get insurance.

I was done for 100.1 mph last year yes 100.1 not 101 but 100.1 mph on the M5. Went to court did the lose my job bit but walked out with 7 day ban plus £550 fine then went back to get my car (with a mate) and got a £20 parking ticket.

Think you did ok with the size of the fine. On balance I think I'd prefer a 7 day ban than 6 points but that's just me.

Took great pleasure in taking the Mille down the same stretch a few weeks later at over 150mph. Childish but it made me feel better all the same.