Desmo Due regs confusion
 

There seems to be some inconsistencies in the rules. From the link in this forum:

"Oil catching undertray is required. This must hold 4 litres minimum."

The ACU book says:

..."at least half of the total oil and coolant capacity"

Therefore it's not necessary to contain 4 litres.

Also several people in this forum seem confused about breathers, oil catch tanks etc. The answer is quite obvious and contained in the excellent ACU rule book on page 174. I don't understand why there's so much confusion.
AFAIK from Lin's M600 it breathes into the air box and also into a little tank under the seat. These would constitute a catch tank and are basically the same as on my MiniTwin race bike.

Brakes : "If using twin disks brake lines must be separate below bottom fork clamp-construction and use regulations."

This is in contravention of the ACU regs in section 5.24

HTH.


[Edited on 16-4-2005 by twpd]

Thanks for that.

:eureka:

cheers TW, ever since I & Mark went thru those DD rules, they have been :puzzled: - and seeking clarification WHY ever since, with no success

Alan

The catch-tank situation is still confusing me thouugh!!!

You say that the oil breather is sorted out on a Monster (620?) by the catch tank under the seat, but what about the fuel breather? I have a pipe that exits from the back right of the tank and is fed down to just behind the engine - is this the fuel tank breather? Does this need to be fed into a catch tank? Or is this just an iverflow pipe for the fuel cap? Does the Monster use the fuel cap as a fuel breather too?

It may be obvious to some, but not to me - I must be fik !!!!

Tim

confused me when it said 4 holes in the belly pan - but that will let the oil out:o

The bellypan holes should be plugged all of the time, except when its wet - then you'll need to let the water out somehow. Otherwise heavy braking with a bellypan full of water will deposit a load of water under the front tyre just when you don't need it!!!

If its wet and you're overflowing oil into the bellypan I reckon the water will dilute it to the point of being a non-issue.

Tim

I always thought it was 2 holes :puzzled: One at the front and one at the back of the bellypan.

Ok I am making a suggestion here, - I am not "authorised" to make a decision as I am not on the racing committee, - but I acknowledge that circumstance outside of our control means that final rules to competitors will arrive later than they should. So whilst things like sponsor stickers are important (as without them believe me the series would not be going ahead), perhaps rules that effect safety and racing performance (ie cheating) should be the ones that get the focus at Cadwell?

The bellypan I got from JHP only has one hole in the centre - the DD regs state that there should be a maximium of 2 holes. Do the perhaps mean minimum????

Tim

Call me stooooopid, but can't think of a practical reason why the belly pan should need two holes anyway; unless its shaped making two distinct 'wells' for fluids to collect in.

Surely one hole at the lowest point will allow adequate drainage if water is slopping around inside?

What am I missing here???

\"must contain a maximum of two holes 25mm dia\"
 

So as I see it you don't HAVE to have ANY! But how'd you drain rainwater (or oil in a catastrophe) if you din't have any?
Makes sense to have at least one at the bellypan's lowest point!
;)

That's why I reckon its a typo and it should state "minimum" instead of "maximum".

acu regs state maximum two holes of 25mm

I've sent a question off to demodue@ducatisportingclub.com regarding this and I'll report back the results.

Tim

As Tetol says the ACU requires that you have to 25mm holes that are plugged for dry races and open for wet races and there one heck of a lot of wet races at club meetings even when its bone dry, if the clouds are threatening rain then the wet race board goes out which means they don't have to stop and restart the race if it rains.
Normally you have one hole at the front and one at the rear to get rid of water under both acceleration and braking.
The support vans in the paddock such as A&R racing carry spare grommets for plugging 25mm holes if you happen to loose yours although I have used tank tape before now, with one end folded over on it self to form a tag, this makes it easy to remove in the collecting area if need be while holding the bike up with one hand.

Ian, I think you have missed the point here mate:puzzled:

nobody is on about any cheating - its clarification of DD rules, that are not quite 'per' the ACU rules we are asking for.
Straight after the agm, we had an email in February confirming a few points, also promising a full update of the rules. We havent had this yet, and its April

Whilst we appreciate all the hard work that has gone into getting the series off the ground:) it is now very important to get clarification - we dont have long to make any changes/additions/mods with 2 weeks to go.

Here is what we could do with being confirmed:
eg:
airbox: is this a sufficient catchcan for oil breather - as holds approx a litre, or do we need additional catchcan under the airfilter housing
mudguard - to have or not, as on monsters it is incorporated into chainguard. (acu rule 5.14 Mudguards are not compulsory)
do we have to have a top chainguard - as well as the acu sharkfin underneath (acu 5.15c)
Stickers - we have sorted ours - leaving room on forks & bellypan as suggested, so not worrying unduly about them.

Not wanting to have egg on our faces in 2 weeks time.

Alan & CK :)

CAn't help on them all, but I've been informed by Mike (MW) that we definitely do not need to run a top chain guard or rear hugger. We obviously have to have the lower (shark's fin) chain guard though.

Tim

Strictly speaking that is not a fuel breather. Your fuel breather is built into the tank cap. That breath you mention serves to vent the overflow caused by overfilling the tank. This will spill over into the recess where the cap is located. It's the same as my MiniTwin racer - I don't bother routing this into a catch tank - I've had no scrutineering issues with this. You can do one of two things:

1. Remove the pipe and forget about it.
2. Route the pipe into a catch tank. Anything will do as long as it's resitant to petrol. For the non-return valve phone Alan Russell at A&R racing - he'll probably have them.

HTH.

N.

[Edited on 17-4-2005 by twpd]

[Edited on 17-4-2005 by twpd]

UR welcome.

That's correct. It is. The holes should be no more than 25mm in diameter.

[Edited on 17-4-2005 by twpd]

The ACU regs call for two. You put two in. The rules are not debatable and scrutineers won't enter into negotiations over them. Just do it! :)

The design of my JHP bellypan means that the lowest point is right in the middle where the hole is - so it would work perfectly - if I need another hole for ACU regs - I'll drill one !! Won't make it drain any better though.

Tim

You are all getting your knickers in a bit of a twist
 

You need to remember that whatever DD rules say - the ACU rules are the ones that apply above all else except when it comes to formula regs i.e tuning and modifications permitted.

Take the DD rules with a pinch of salt and read the ACU regs because it is them that will dictate whether or not your bike passes scrutineering. It's New Era's ACU accredited/trained scruts that decide whether or not you bike is legal. Not the DD.

Now pls excuse me. I have a race to do. ;)

[Edited on 17-4-2005 by twpd]

cheers Tim :)
tho I wont take it off till I get typo confirmation, as it says it must be there in the dd rules.
Alan

acu regs say a maximum of two so shouldnt one be enough?

Just a thought but ...
 

... I'd want to get to scrutineering real early at Cadwell just in case any last minute mods are required :smug:

we will be anyway Henners - but no mods should be needed if rules are updated & distributed to all competing asap

C:)

looking and listening to all these 'last minute' issues, I am kinda glad I havent entered this year. No way would I have the time to chop and change at such a late stage.

Come on MT, get the rules out or at least tell people to use the ACU regs, or you are risking spoiling all this before it starts!

I know its not easy and thers lost of decision and stuff to make, but thats not a valid reason to stall for so long.

As a member, I am worried that this is taking all the time you have and it is still not done. Is anything else happening in the club?

I don't totally agree - there really isn't any "chopping and changing" of the rules going on, its just that as final preparations are going on for racing that we've still got 2 weeks for - we are trying to ensure our bikes are ready.

The rules apply differently to different bikes, ie - the rules for oil catchtank on a SS mean different things on a Monster - the rules cannot be expected to cater for all bike, but we are all seeking clarification for our own particular models. This is enevitable and expected I believe.

We could (and should) be sending these questions off to the desmodue email address for official responses, but these are shared on here in the hope that someone else knows the answers first.

Tim

and I think thats it good that it is tim, cause if you aint racing there is no info and nothing to know what you might let yourself in for.

As for the chopping and changing, I have heard enough 'discussions' to give me an impression there have been, or at least rules changes which may have affected those who signed up if they had known.

Of course I know the peolpe involved are probably working flat out to remidy this, but, and I wont apologise for this, I still do not understand the secret squirrel way in which it has all been done. In my view it is unneccesary and *may* cause some division between those in the know and those who arent. And all this does is leave others wondering whats happening.

Just because we are not racing, doesnt mean we're not interested

however, I will apologise for taking this off thread.....:)

Who is this "Desmo Due Regis Confusion" ?

Do we have a WSB ringer in amongst us

sorry AK/CK, - just trying to help, - the word cheating was not meant as cheating more relating the DD rules rather than the ACU ones. I will get my coat...... :( not my place to enter into this really.

No probs Ian:)

Its just like Rattler says really, just trying to clear things up more speedily here

C

Rules clarification
 

It is unfortunate that no-one from the racing committee has replied to this thread in my absence and I apologise for this delay. I do believe that this has been stirred up a little as there are fairly simple clarifications to be made to the points raised which are as on the attached document.

I also apologise that the revised rules have not been issued. The rules are being updated to take account of a small number of minor amendments and comments following the AGM DD meeting, as follows:

- compression limit omitted
- control levers - to allow any
- batteries to allow later gel ones
- clarification re upgrade to 620 twin discs ... it is allowed
- tyres as you know, Pirelli Diablo control tyres (no wets or warmers)
- points as agreed at the agm
- eligibility rules (to discourage trophy hunters!)

and will be issued in the next few days.

As before, please send any queries to desmodue@ducatisportingclub.com

[Edited on 18-4-2005 by mw]

and another thing !
 

new era have arranged, as most of us are novices, for all the dd bikes to be scrutineered on the saturday afternoon before the first race on sunday.
as the scrutineers will not be as busy (usually only needing to look at crashed bikes at this time of day!), this allows for a fairly leisurely review of the bikes in a less pressured environment compared with on the morning of the race and will allow some time for tinkering should this be needed.

Well I didn't know about that !

Well, we\'re all wiser now ...
 

... cheers Mike, and well done on your marathon run :D