Road Riding
 

Caution - Long and Windy post.

Had a nice trip out on the 996 on Saturday and met up with some DSC folks for a greasy breakie and a looky over Nick's DD bike. On the way home the roads around my house were heavily congested with cars and buses all coming in for the rugby at Twickenham Stadium - the PowerGen Cup Final.

Tailbacks down the M3 and because I live very close to the stadium my street was actually blocked off to traffic by the police, as always happens, and I had to plead for them to let me in. Anyway, I was filtering up the traffic, generally taking it easy when I came up behind a guy on an SV650 who had slowed down. He let me through and he joined the other SV650 (with a girl riding) that was filtering behind me.

There is a point after this story, hold on.

I filtered to the head of the traffic to a set of lights just before the stadium and then the guy starts being a bit erratic in the traffic, like he's trying to keep up with me or something. Bearing in mind I wasn't going quickly at all, I was mindful of the conditions because there wasn't just a lot of traffic around there were pedestrians everywhere - anyone who has been to Twickenham on a big rugby day will understand. So we leave the first set of lights and he tries to race up to beat me into the traffic. I sort of sit up to let him have it but then he dives back around the outside of the traffic to go up beside the bus that was there and the curbing. We filter up to the next set of lights. This is the roundabout that every rugby fan has walked through from the stadium back to the train station. The police wave us through after a short wait and I get out in front and catch up with the traffic in front. I don't know where either Sv is. There is a LWB Sprinter van in front of me that starts slowing very suddenly and then puts his left indicator on (we are in the right hand lane still heading up the A316 towards Richmond) I slow down to wait and see what is going on and there is a stationary Pug 306 with it's RHS indicator on wanting to turn into the church carpark across the road and all the traffic banked up. Just as I'm deciding which way to go around the Pug the bloke on the SV ploughs into the back corner of the 306 around 2 metres from where I am. He would have to have been doing 30-35mph.

I picked this bloke up (I'm trying not to call him a kid - he was around 20 I reckon but came across as very immature). He was trying to go around the Sprinter (he was going way too fast for the conditions) and didn't notice that the Pug was stationary. He hit it so that the fork leg on the right was bent back around 60 degree's and the fork had split just below the bottom yoke spilling fork oil all over the road. The forks were twisted down around to the right but the left hand fork leg appeared to be straight. The headlight assembly was completely ripped out of the front of the bike, along with all the fairings smashed and the headlight assembly was dangling by it's connection into the loom.

The bloke himself had gone over the bars and slid up the side of the car landing on his head and taking off the left hand side mirror on the Pug. He was laying on the ground when I got to him.

So, this had a bit of an affect on me and made me have a think about why I ride bikes. After the police had came I helped get his mess of a bike off the road and helped him once he was up. His right hand was split open in a nasty gash and the ambulance was going to stitch him up. This combined with all the other major accidents that seem to be happening lately, people getting seriously injured and destroying their bikes has made me reconsider whether I should continue riding on the road.

I did my first track day last year at Rocky with the DSC - TA3. Since then I've fallen in love with track days and as you know, entered the Desmo Due series. Since doing time on the track my road riding has slowed down. I don't think I was reckless before but now I'm bordering on being an old man! I've always considered myself to be a good rider on the road (don't we all) and I'm careful enough to have survived an extended stint commuting through London every day in all weathers on the 996, something I don't need to do at the moment. I think my observation skills are very good and I tailor my riding accordingly to the conditions and what I see around me. Should I stop riding on the road? Some people who know my family circumstances might say yes - I am 29 years old, I am an IT Contractor, we are a single income family, I have four children aged between four and eleven. I also have a lot of very expensive insurance ;)

I don't know - should I stop? I don't think I should - but I'm certainly reviewing how I ride and thinking about what I get out of riding on the public roads. I didn't get all that much enjoyment out of riding the 996 on Saturday but I know that this is dependant on all sorts of different things so I'm not too concerned about that. But I certainly didn't get anywhere near the level of enjoyment I get out of caning the monster around the track! Or the 996 for that matter. Is it worth it when the other option is there? Hrmm .. I don't know, I guess I'll keep debating with myself and talk to my wife about it.

What about you? How many of you have sworn off the road? How many of you have sworn off the track? How many of you have wrestled with this decision yourself - and maybe changed your decision later? And why?

Take the poll - tell me your opinion. If you're still reading after getting this far and not too glazed over.

Excellent post TP - I may go down the track riding only route myself next year.

The only thing holding me back at the moment is that rush hour traffic in London should still only be done on a bike. Oh, there's also a small matter of the 2 bikes that I would have to sell.

as much as I like to ride on the track I don't think I could ever get enough of a fix by that alone. (well unless I win the lottery)
as you mentioned there is just a lovely buzz you can get from being able to get your pride and joy out on a blue sky Sunday morning, take it for a wee warm up spin before meeting up with some fellow DSC for a cup of tea or big fry up or BBQ at evertons (priceless)
I would never want to miss out on those spur of the moment ride outs, there unbeatable

As much as I love track riding, I'm with keefer on this one, although even if I win the lottery I'll still ride on the road.

spur of the moment is what it's all about.

im with keefer

you cant baet sunday morning ride outs, trips to bsb,wsb and motogp on your bikes it just not the same by car, how about the turning up to work bit with a smile on your face everyday, since my car got torched 6 weeks ago ive used my 748 for a 40mile commute everyday in all weather, i was ****ed wet through this morning but still had a big grin on my face

i would never give up riding because of someone elses riding, i have a mate in a wheelchair at the moment with both legs in plaster and although a few of them thought about giving up it never entered my mind,since ive started teaching cbt's im more aware, more controlled and much more confident in myself and also my bike, the more i ride the happier i am

plus the nearest track to me is over 200 mile away so its road riding or no riding

Did track days for about 4 years and road riding for much longer than that. Two years ago, not long after dislocating my shoulder in a road accident, I quit riding on the road. The following season, I started racing. Haven't ridden a bike on the road since and don't miss it on bit. The current crop of sportsbike are way too fast for me on the road. No matter how good my intentions are at the outset, it always turns into a mini race, even when I rode on my own.

After a couple of seasons of racing, road riding is just too slow. If there is anything I'd miss about road riding, it is the meeting places like the market square at Helmsley, or Devil's bridge, or the Milkbar, or...

Other than that, it's track only for me. It will happen to you to, Tony.

After 30 years of road riding, I'm doing CSS and tracks this year. I'm sure I'll get bitten by the track bug, but could never give up the pleasure of the road. Everything from riding through countryside (great) to filtering past stationary traffic (big smile).... :D

BTW Tony, I can understand how 40 miles of mainly dual carriageway each way on Sat can be a bit unexciting!

I find the track and road experience to be very different. I tend to ride quite a lot during the summer, often every day. I could not do that many trackdays.
If you can adjust your mindset to road riding then I see no reason not to continue

Truthfully If I lived in London or any large town the last thing i would want is a bike. when I do ride in town that is where Im going to come across the "village idiot" two stroke Tommy ,blinkered, only thing they no is twisting the throttle open. Car drivers guarding ever inch of tarmac there can use and more. Im blest with being able to ride on some of the best roads around with some good mates in the same situation. All though I say that, its worth riding 40 miles to find some good roads because they are out their. Track days are fine, but we cant all afford to ride track every month and riding once a month wont suppress my appitite for riding my 996. 4D

[quote]Originally posted by TP


What about you? How many of you have sworn off the road? How many of you have sworn off the track? How many of you have wrestled with this decision yourself - and maybe changed your decision later? And why

I have throats like this all the time and have stopped myself riding/racing over several incidents.
Crashes I have had, the loss of close friends and when my son was borne family pressure,
I think they call it a healthy respect for what you are actually exposing yourself to.
Track riding is by far more fun but two of my friends have serious injuries sustained on track and I am talking One paralysed down the hole of his left side and the other lost his foot from stalling off the line.
Two of my closest friends were killed in road crashes. One in Germany seven years ago and the other in Dagenham when we were twenty-two years old. I miss him just as much now as I did at the time it happened. When you watch your friend die wile your waiting for the ambulance it can sort of make you think for a bit.
I have also lost friends in Boat racing crashes and windsurfing at Cortilo one minuet it was the best day perfect waves perfect wind and then it just all fell apart. When we were standing on the beach and Peter just vanished in to the Atlantic. No rescue just us on the beach then sailing offshore looking for him. I think that was the worst feeling of loss because there was nothing anyone could do, just felt so helpless.

Riding a motorcycle is an activity that delivers the ultimate rush and can also deliver the ultimate punishment. So if you feel like it is time to leave it for a wile and take stock, just remember you can just get back on when ever you need another fix and stay off as long as it takes to get your head right.
For me it’s like a drug, life without a bike just doesn’t do it and I keep coming back.
Like I said to the lucky fokes on the (is it all over) thread today you are lucky you just don’t know that now.

See now you got me thinking grim reaper again
But I have snapped out of it and booked myself in at Snett for this Monday coming.









:lol::devil:

4d thats a great point about the appetite for riding your 996, i hate it when i cant get to ride my 748,the missus dreads it when ive a big ride planned and she gets upto let the cats out at 5 and see's its ****ing down, she knows i'll be in a foul mood allday then

ride safely and ride carefully and more importantly ride because you still enjoy it :smug:

Sadly road only for me. i am not heroic or even slightly competetive and while a track day kind of appeals i would be to worried about binning the bike or being taken out by someone else.
yet i face these risks and far worse on the road !
i am lucky to have some real nice and rare bikes and todays superbikes like felix just dont really appeal to me. done the blade thing and was never really aspired by it (apart from knowing i could just put in the key and go and it would get me there) and some might say downgraded to a 916.
I firmly believe that 100bhp is more than enough for anyone on the road and i feel quite happy with a moderate 60 from a 250 or my 400cc bikes.
i love the feeling of riding on the road and find it the only way to forget about everything else going on in my head and just concentrating on riding.

more often than not i ride alone too and am quite happy to do so, riding at my own pace as its quite un-nearving watching some of the people on bikes in groups all playing catchup and taking risks. there is always 1 rider in each group who is faster and one who is slower, and i can see why bikers get a bad name at weekends riding in groups making cars brake when a bike pulls into the gap left by the car causing a chain reaction of braking because some soft git just had to keep up with the fast guy.

if a few of us do go out, we go at our own pace and all meet up or pull over and wait should one decide to go for it.

besides if i take one of the gag bikes out on the road then i am doing no more than 55 - 60 mph anyway and overtaking is an interesting experience so they have no choice but to let me set the pace.

infact if the truth be known i am quite happy to collect my odd jap bikes as these were the things of my dreams back in the 80's and 90's and now my dreams are coming true slowly.
i guess in another 20 years perhaps i will be able to afford some of todays rare stuff (perhaps a desmosedici or a RCB) and would be quite happy just looking at them and not riding anymore

my old man restores and has quite a few old 175, 250 and 350 ducati's which are 100% original and mint and he never rides them, its always me who has to take them for MOT and thats a bundle of fun trying to remember the gear and brakes are on the other side of the bike :D

[Edited on 19-4-2005 by crm250]

I enjoy riding too much not to. Can't afford TD's (or the repair bills if it goes wrong), so road is it for me. Fortunately I drive around the Southern Counties a lot for work (30 000m/year) so know the roads reasonably well. Just one less thing to worry about, so more time to consider what the local idiots might be up to.

Its more about freedom, time to clear the cobwebs out, and focus on something other than the rat race, rather than sheer speed and adrenaline for me.

Tony, what a horrid accident to have to help out with!:o

As for us - I like to ride out to meet up - just like Keefer & others. Regretfully the wet conditions really put me off on the trackday last Sept, and I dont plan to do any more - tho am happy to come & wave/take the mick/pick up bike bits for you lot:lol:

Alan likes road riding with meets & got bitten by the track bug last year at Rockingham (he likes rain - I dont).

C:)

Tony, I thought long and hard about giving up road riding in 2001-got hit from behind by a drunk gypo in a pickup and sent down the road. Luckily no damage to me and only about £1600 worth to the ST-which my insurance had to pay for as the gypo did a runner and was never traced-even though we had his number plate-not just the number the dam plate as well!
It shook me right up and I considered giving up road riding, but I couldn't do it, I just enjoy riding my bike and particularly going on long trips abroad-luckily Jo enjoys that too so I'm still doing it. I also love riding the track but that is a completely different type of riding-luckily I can do both.

John

Track only camp for me

Gave up riding on the road about 18 months ago and don't miss it (the riding aspect) at all.

The social aspect I miss, but the track oriented social scene more than makes up for it.

If I were to return to the road it definately would'nt be on an SBK - whats the point in having a 150bhp ballistic missile when the average road speed in our congested country I doubt ever exceeds 40mph. Traffic laws put our licences increasingly at risk and the other idiots out there put pay to our health - and people think track riding is dangerous!!

I remember a couple of years ago after having done a few track days on the 999 how great it was to wind the bike up on track and find out exactly what these great bikes are all about - and then how frustrated I felt next time I went out on the road, slipping clutch in first in the traffic barely out of 3rd any other time - na - theres no point.

Having said all that I had to run my DD bike in earlier this year on the Queens highway and really enjoyed it, a 600 monster is just perfect for the road - trouble is its just perfect for the track too :devil::devil:

for me i thin it will depend how the racing goes this year in terms of time used up. as we are all discovering, practice, testing and the actual racing weekends takes up a fair amount of time and i do need to do other things at the weekends too. i do like going out on my sunday rides or on summer evenings but i am finding it increasingly dangerous purely from a power point of view. i simply ride far too fast on the road and the possiible outcome should something go wrong doesnt bear thinking about. i love my 999 but for the road it is quite simply far too powerful and i cant resist using it. i love the meeting up and chatting over breakfast etc but i will get that from the racing paddock if i stick with it.
i will see how this year goes, stick with the 999;maybe get something 'sensible' (monster 620 for example) for the road ; or just do the trackday racing stuff. will have to see how it pans out.

I know exactly what you are saying tony. But all it takes is 1 decent ride on the road with the mates and all those questions vapourise. Summer has just started and we have loads of amazing road rideouts ahead of us..enjoy.
How will my opinon change after a season on the race track i dont know...i hope i can manage to have the luxury of both track and road.

One to combat traffic is to get early rides out..i use to go out at 6.00am in the summer with the lads and we would get 3 - 4hours of almost clear roads then get home for 11 ish to enjoy the rest of the day...early doors is the way to go.

Phil

totally agree with that, we go out early on sudays (pre 7) and its a joy on the roads getting back just as the traffic is building up.

Tony after my string of no fault accidents over the last 2 years I did think about giving up road riding, but I have always found riding home after work the best way of releiving stress and Annette would divorce me!
seriously annette and i avoid group rides as in our experience unless the riders know each other extremely well the potential for disaster is too high, we (i) try to ride at reasonable speeds and follow the advise given to us by a friend who is an ex police rider/instuctor the crux of it being only go as fast as you can see and observe speed limits within reason.

by the very fact that you did not have the accident and had observed all the factors you showed that your observation and judgement was spot on. you cannott prevent other people having accidents but by using good judgement you can avoid the most common accidents.

If you carry on road riding your skills stay current if you stop and then restart you have to relearn everrthing that is instincive now. plus I thought that angie was thinking of getting a licence? who would she have to ride with when learning how to survive on the roads.

dave

i very rarely look at my speed when out on a ride apart from in 30 and 40 limits when i stick to them. but when i do occasionally glance at the speedo to see 130 or 140 odd is not uncommon, mostly on single carriageway A and B roads.
it is very easy to get used to these kind of speeds but the roads, and especially other road users are not dialed into them.

Tony,

Thought crosses my mind most days, especially after my recent misfortune, was that down to crap on the road? or the surface? there was several patches of differing tarmac there.

Luckily for me though I have some of the best roads within 45 minutes of where I live, and also have Lily to give me a good kick up the arse to convince me to go out and ride. I do think however that maybe I should get another bike for the road, not a sportsbike, maybe a retard who knows.

I could easily afford to just do trackdays, but I would have to change my way of thinking and lifestyle to a degree, buy a van, have more time off work etc, etc, and if I was going to do that solely I'd probably ask myself why aren't I racing?

What you need is to have a nice biking holiday somewhere, either in the UK (Lake District etc) or Europe, either a WSB/GP round or just a blat to the ring etc with Mav, I'm sure that would swing things around, although I cannot think of anything less appealing than riding in and around London if I am honest.

HTH

I do a mix of track, and what I would describe as careful road riding.

Maybe about half a dozen track days a year, trying to avoid the expensive tracks. For me the track is place where you can fully open the throttle without fear of getting pulled up, coming across unexpected debris/shite on the surface, hitting some loon coming the other way head on and if the worst does happen I'm not going to be left sitting or worse at the side of the road waiting for a good samaritan.
Riding on the track is a place where you can fully explore your own limits in a relatively controlled environment.

I try and ride as if every one else on the road is trying to kill me. I would call myself a slow and careful rider, but I have heard some feedback that some consider the rideouts too fast. On the other hand I know some who consider the rideouts too slow. Rideouts/meet are the social side of biking, if some want to tear off at speed and they are happy they know the route then thats fine by me, but some are happy to pootle along and enjoy the scenery, I would like to think it's possible to cater for both.

A solo ride out on the road can be enjoyable on traffic free roads, the joy of biking is that if do go to a big venue like Squires there is pretty much always someone ready to have a chat while wandering round.

There is little doubt in my mind that there is more to stopping what the authorities see as carnage on roads than speed but as ever the minority of "head bangers" get noticed over the majority of considerate riders. 100 bikes enjoy a safe ride to Helmsley doesn't get media attention but biker caught at 100mph plus carving up the traffic or biker slices pensioners metro in half does.

The equations are simple

Speeding + an accident = victims

Speeding + no accident = no victims

No speeding + accident = victims

so even if you eradicate speeding in the UK you still get victims

Ray.

didn't do much road riding while I was racing ( 9 years ) , but I love road riding now (and I've calmed down) and will probably just do one trackday a year - the DSC one.

I know bikes are dangerous, but I accept the risks and try to keep them to a minimum.

Very interesting thread Tony, accidents like the one you've described often prompt a re assesment of things, and as a few people have said good friends have been lost.

Of course the upcoming waffle is just personal too me, but if you are still inspired (not by my waffle) you will want to carry on road riding, if you have severe doubts, give it a break and see if you miss it.

However not being able to ride on the road would drive me insane. I've done 1 or 2 track days a year since 93, enjoy them, but am pretty slow on the track, lack of confidence!? and the fear of wrecking my pride and joy, although that might be different if i had a dedicated track bike. Confidence on the road for me is a different issue as i've covered an awfull lot of miles on a bike and feel comfortable.

Despite having done a lot of miles, and been a bit of a loon on the roads at times i cannot stress how valuble some form of advanced training has been for me. Ignore the boring BMW riding, flatcap, pipe and slippers image of Advanced training, get the right training and it will do wonders for your riding and could save your life. I'd done half a million miles despatching before i took some training, so imagine how many bad habits i'd picked up, or how clever i thought i was.

Bikes in general i just LOVE, whether it be tinkering in the garage, planning the next trip, riding on the road, even in bad weather, although obviously prefer the sun, and riding off road.

like Dave Harris said even the commute home from work can be a real excercise in stress relief.

I love a bloody good (quick but safe/ not insane) thrash on the road, but much prefer to ride either on my own or with a very small group of mates who all know each other very well and trust each other. If i do have to ride with an unknown group there is always someone too quick/slow/mad/better/ or just bad. Don't mind if they're better but all the rest are of concern.

Town riding can be fun, even in London but it is an art (not sure if 25 years of despatch riding qualifies as art though :lol:)

Another aspect of biking i love is travelling, although of course kids do curtail that a bit (only got 3 foreign bike trips planned for this year and only for a week at a time, as i really miss the wife and family)

The foreign trips are what i would class as 'Performance Touring' not loaded up like a Goldwing, and the feeling of downing the first cold beer at the end of a good days ride is a real highlight for me, as is exploring different places, meeting new people etc.

France is on the doorstep, Greece, Yugoslavia (as was) and Morocco are just a few days ride away and every day is an adventure.

Off roading is great fun if you want a change from road riding.

Having said all that, despite track days, touring, off roading; the buzz of opening the garage to see the 996 there, getting kitted up and going for a good ride on the road for a few hours to blow the cobwebs out, empty your head of day to day concerns, whether trivial or serious concerns, and settle into the mental concentration of you, the bike and the road is truly an experience that is very satisfying, better than drugs, (though not as good as sex:D) that really is irreplacable for me, and you don't need to wait for a track day/race etc. You can nip out on your local fav roads for a few hours (not quite as easy if you live in London of course)

My apologies for rambling on so long, and sorry if it may sound a bit me, me , me but i just trying to use personal experiences to demonstrate my passion.

Life is full of risks, it a case of how you deal with them.

[Edited on 20-4-2005 by BDG]

Very good post, indeed.

I believe you were riding correctly for the road conditions, and that’s fine. The SV lad has learnt a valuable lesson and this is road riding is about limiting your exposure to the dangers, what he did increased his chances of a crash.

Limiting the danger would be riding a little faster on your favourite B road, with no traffic and no blind bends. The difference is you know what your bike is capable of and you know the safe places to practice it.

I broke my arm snowboarding, guess what I was going too fast, hey there is danger in everything.

Good thread Tp!
I stopped road riding 18 months ago because we were starting to get too insane, and also because we were doing more and more track days.
I then did some racing as well as you all know. I didn't really miss road riding at that time. This year rolls around and I can't afford to go racing as I bankrupted myself last year. I can't even afford to do many track days. I dearly wanted to join all you guys at Cadwell but couldn't afford to pay for it at the time, so I can't come.
Because of all that I could see that the only way I was going to get any use out of my beloved ducati was to put her back on the road. The thing is, I used to have this real competitive streak, much like the description of SV man. But now, I don't really feel the need to prove myself. I've been at the sharp end, I know what I can do and I'm comfortable with that.
I also find the roads quite a scary place, and whilst I do ride fast, I don't ride as fast as I used to.
It'll be the same for you. You can't beat the social aspect of a ride out with your mates or a day out at the races. Like deej says, it just isn't the same in a car!
:)

I love my road riding and my bike, thought about getting a 999/998 but why bother, I love the look of my 748R and its plenty fast enough, you have to get up pretty early to miss the traffic and when the sun is out its even worse.
I like track days but had a big off at Brands last summer, the cost/risk means its not worth it. As much as I like to ride its social side I enjoy as well. I have a family and kids to think as well to think about, but my bike is my pride a joy and I still love the thrill of riding a sports bike.
:D:D