Tip in
 

This may be a bit of a strange question as most people want to speed up the turn in of a Duke but I want the opposite!

Let me explain, had a bad accident a couple of years ago thanks to the local council laying some new high grip surface (!) and leaving gravel all over the road. One written off BP and skin graft to foot, ouch.

Anyway since then it's been a bit of a knock to my confidence in the front-end turn in. I now own a 916SPS with a set of Marvic wheels.

I am finding that often just as I start to turn in the front end feels light as if it is going just wash out. This does my confidence no good at all.

I rode a friend's 916SPS a couple of days ago and that felt far more stable and confidence inspiring. Now it had standard wheels and HyperPro springs front and rear. I have ordered up the HyperPro stuff and will fit that as soon as I can.

Tyres are Pilot Sport Cup's (31f, 36r), suspension settings have been set to my weight.

I will try going back to the standard wheels soon.

So any ideas on a more controlled front end? I now know is possible by riding this other SPS so it has given me a bit of hope that I will be happy on my bike :saint:

[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Andy Hartland]

Have you checked your sterring head angle isn't set to the steeper setting?
Other than that, give me your Marvic's and that should help solve the problem.

Andy ... I know exactly where your comin from. I used to have a 748BP but had an unexpected off which completely demolished my confidence. I replaced it with a 748S ... different forks/mag wheels. The bike felt completely different ... front end had no feel and I had no confidence. Only recently i tried, and so far successfully altered my suspension setup. The results were dramatic ... its like a whole new bike and my confidence has shot up. I suggest you look at getting your bike professionally setup, or if your inclined, have a go tinkering it by yourself. Worked for me. goodluck.

If a previous owner played with the head angle that is probably your issue. You may consider checking the ride high as well since a suspension specialist would have given you a setup to turn in quick.

I would not think the setting up the damper on hard would be a good move. This is to help fighting slappers back, not slow your turning!

Also instead of making your bike turn badly to get your confidence back, you should probably splash out on a California Superbike School day where you will learn all about turning better: quick turning techniques, relaxation when riding and powering out of corners (level 1)!

Oh and I forgot to mention, I am second in line for the Marvic give-away! :D

Cheers guys for all your kind offers for the Marvic's :lol:

The head angle is fine, I've had Pro Twins look over the suspension setting and set it for my weight etc but also check there was nothing obvious like this wrong.

Thanks ShakMan for your comments, sounds like we have had similar experiences. Good to know it's not just me then :) I have ordered the HyperPro stuff and then the bike is going back to Pro Twins to have it dialled in for me again. Sounds like from your experience this may work. I hope so.

As you have suggested pguenet I have, well my lovely girlfriend has, booked me on the California Superbike School later in the year for the exact reasons you pointed out.

Funny thing is, a couple of years ago I was a knee down everywhere kind'a guy so it's a confidence thing that I need to get back.

Once again thanks for the feedback. I'll let you all know about the wheels but don't go holding your breath :lol:

Andy....
 

.....what's good about the CSS level one is that for most of the sessions, you run in one gear and do not use brakes...

What this does is allow you to get very confident in your own ability and bike without any peer pressure or egos getting involved. You start very slowly and gradually build up during the sessions and find yourself going surprisingly quickly without using brakes - you'll surprise yourself.

Its confidence that I gained from the CSS that I would promote as being the most valuable.

Enjoy - Tim

Andy,

I echo Rattler's comments and Pguenet's.

I had a front end wash out a couple of years ago (on gravel admittedly, but it still stuck with me).

Went on the CSS Levels 1&2 this year and that has completely changed my riding and confidence for the better.

You'll have a hoot......especially when you come back from the training and go out on the road again.

Have the suspension looked at cos this will most likely be your 'vague feeling' problem sorted. You can then go into the CSS and just concentrate on the techniques not your bike.

Just a thought, but how old are your tyres?
Done 3500miles and two trackdays (well one really - mallory doesnt count as it was p1ssing wet the whole day!) and I'm starting to get the same feeling, except it drops into turns suddenly and not progressively.

It might be that you just dont get on with the michelins?

just a couple of points, is the front tyre a 120/70 or a 120/60 ?
The other is to do with the weight bias of the 748/916 design where it is slightly biased to the rear even with a good set up, so if your rear preload is to low or the front to high, or the rear ride hight to low you will end up with even less weight on the front making the front tyre contact feel vague. Try putting more weight onto the front wheel by changing one or more of the previous. Yes it will steepen the rake and decrease the trail but at the same time it tries to squash the front tyre futher into the road surface giving it more grip. (works very well on a 98 Blade at the TT). Also check the rear eccentric position, the futher back the better as this provides leaverage that helps to push the front end down for a more stable feeling.
Kev

Once again cheers guys :)

I am looking forward to the CSS. I heard a bit about it from my brother who did it a couple of years ago. I've been on the track a few times but I need to just concentrate on building up slowly as you say Rattler. I hope this will really help me.

The tyres are fairly young still and have plenty of life left in them, probably only covered 1500 miles if that.

The front tyre is a 120/70, not sure what your thoughts are on that Kev?

Front tyre contact feeling vague is a good description of the problem. As I say I should be getting the suspension set-up later in the month by Pro Twins in Godstone. Hopefully they will aware of this, seem very knowledgeable so far re all things suspension. I will have a chat with them about this though. They told me that they can get the bike feeling just how I want it to so I have high hopes.

What your saying though Kev makes a lot of sense to me, so thanks mate.

No probs Andy, anytime.
If it had been a 120/60 tyre as fitted to 748s it may have been contributing to the turn in problem.
Kev

Andy,
If you want some Hyperpro Springs - you can have mine for nothing :lol:
They've done approx 500 miles - I hated them !
They were ok on the road but when I did a trackday at Brands with them they were completely useless.
Since they are progressively wound, the amount of travel is dependant upon the applied load. Therefore, dependant upon the entry speed to a corner, and braking force, the forks will compress a different amount. Hence it was tricky to predict how they would behave at different corners due to the non-linear response.

Andy-- did you get your bike sorted in the end?? I'm interested as I've just today dropped my 996 into Pro Twins to have Rob look over the suspension -- I'm having exactly the same issues as you've (and all) have described. Rob prescribed new front springs (Hyperpro.. surprise!) and a new rear spring...

I've heard differing opinions on the HP's, so a little hesitant now, but then again I'm dont think I'm experiened enough to know any different!

But I'd appreciate any feedback on your results!

J--

HP are a waste of money in my opinion. You're far better off paying a good suspension guy adjust your existing setup, which should be possible. My rule of thumb is to only start replacing bits when you're convinced you can't make work what you already got.