What\'s your points? <--- That\'s cryptic ;o)
 

OK, following on from discussions on here AND with other DD riders on my moby...

Here is a link to a JUST FOR FUN points table, based on engine capacity.

It's not the official points table, although general opinion seems to wish it was...

JUST FOR FUN, AND NOT OFFICIAL POINTS TABLE - OK!!









....running away now :ninja:

I wish you'd hurry up and get better - you must be going out of your mind with boredom ;)
Hmm 31 - sounds better than 5 I must admit!

My point exactly :bouncy:

Everyone gets more points (not the idea behind this), and the people who ride their nuts off on a 583 or 675 get just reward for there efforts, coz they're gunna get hammered from now on.

I'll give £50 to the first non-620 rider to win a DRY race.

I think my money is safe.

:)

it must be said that running an Internal " DSC " 2 class series as depicted in the tables is not a bad idea............what possible hope have the 583/600 big bores got of a top 3 finish in a race let alone the season against the top riders on the 620's.

I can hear the "its the rider not the bike" arguments already.......
:P

Phil

i think we've been here before, but if a top 3 finish is that important to anyone surely they would have got a 620 in the first place?

Not when they were told a 600 big bore would give same bhp...........

but like u said we been here before, but still a valid point dom raises about 2 point system...why would any1 object to that.........:puzzled:

Phil

What if you couldn't afford a 620?

This was a 'cheap' entry class afterall.

Phil & Ali are fast boys, but maybe they didn't have the £4000+ to buy and prep a 620.

Should they be penalised for that?

mikuni flatslides and a little fettling will not give 63 at the rear wheel..and would cost in the order of 800 quid plus...

i would donate my bike to any of the Ducati mechanics here and let them try to get 63 at the wheel within the rules.

currently with Big bore and dyno jet its 51.5bhp.

Phil

I think Geoffs bike was making 63, so how would a 583/675 produce the same with tiny valves.

Thats where the restriction lies.

You could bore it to 1000cc, and it would be dog slow coz you can't get air/fuel in and out fast enough.

fair do's. 2 valid points well made.

out of interest whsat are the most accurate dyno figs we have seen comparing the 2. i know, different dyno's etc etc but what are we talking about 5 bhp, 10?

re 2 points systems. i think that is a bad way to go. as i have said before you then get into a hadicap type system for all sorts of reasons.

re cost how much more is a 620 realistically compared to what they have spent? not much if getting that podium is really important.


**just read above replies.**
if the info supplied pre season was inaccurate that is a shame for those concerned


[Edited on 9-5-2005 by dickieducati]

Lets not go there...all dom said was why not have a 2 series class with seperate points within the DSC and i agree its a good idea.

Nowt else

Phil

"Il n'y a que ceux qui ne font rien qui ne se trompent pas".

Nice quote Tonio, I like that.

3 big bored 600ss have been dyno'd at 3 seperate locations each giving a reading within 1/2 bhp of each other.

A 620ie is ball park 3k plus all the extra's what do you think dickie 4.5k approx.? if so thats easily 2k over and above what i have spent...if i had known the 600ss big bored was so down on power i would have waited and looked for a 620ie.

Phil

Even so maybe the two classes should be 620/674 and the other 583 that would alter the table a bit, mind you I would still have Zero points.
You can't tell me fitting a 674 Bigbore kit on a 583 doesn't make a difference, I've ridden Senna3's and it pulls like a train compared to mine.

I think we will find that at both Castle Combe and Snetterton there are 3 distinct classes, a speed gun for measuring top speeds down the straights will show things as they really are.

Edited to add Snetterton as I had put Thruxton, wishful thinking

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by skidlids]

agree,


i think its a bad idea.

I know that there aren't any 'works' teams, but I can best justify the 2-tier points system if I can use BSB as an example.

The 620's have an advantage, no one is really disputing that, so they are like the 'main' BSB teams.

Then the 583/675 massiiiive are like the BSB Cup teams.

There is still an overall championship to compete for, but at least the Cup riders get recognition for their achievements.

So a Cup rider finishes 20th overall, but he's the 1st Cup rider, so he gets no points in BSB proper, but 25 points in the Cup.

I'm not suggesting prizes or anything like that for the 583/675 riders, just some recognition that there is two clear races within the one DD race.

It won't take long for riders on a budget to look at DD and think "Well, there's no point doing it unless you have a 620"

Not everyone can afford a 620.

Not everyone is doing this just for fun, and happy to finish 10th or 20th or 30th.

Same here as Phil - although I've got a budget if I had known that the 600SS would be this much down on power I would have gone for the cheapest 620 I could find.

We've hit the wall with the valves when it comes to getting more power out of the big-bored engine and we can't change those within the rules.

The cost of Keihin FCR39s is knocking on $1000 (about £600 as Phil says) once you've got them imported and so on, plus you need the shorter manifolds as well and I haven't been able to find them here either.

I disagree.
http://southwick.dyndns.org/desmodue/budget-en.html

I am under 3k even with a service of about £500 (which I wouldn't have done if I have known...).

Yeah but you went to France to buy yours :frog:;)

i dont agree that there are 2 clear races within one DD race, i beleive its alot more mixed than you make out. but we have been here before.

got to make it clear my opinion has nothing to do with how far up the table i come. no matter how you slice it or what table i'm in, i'll still be at the bottom.

About 5 of us bought 620's for around the £2500 mark.

Mine was £2550.

I look forward to bring back my 600 Monster from France, just to check with an Alfano and the same rider... :eureka:

having said that, should i fluke a decent position somehow, i can just hear all the "yeah well, he's on a 620 anyway" already. :lol::lol::lol: ;)

Why is it that the 620 riders are the only ones thinking we have a level playing field?

Lets swap at Castle Combe, and I won't just suck the stickers off the 675 as I fly past.

IT'S NOT EVEN, STOP KIDDING YOURSELF DUDE!!

:D:saint::D:saint::D:saint:;)

we havent quite got to £1850 yet - and that was for buying & fettling the bike.

We couldnt have started at £2,500, then added the 'extras that would have been necessary for safety, neither of us had the money...............

Skids, have we bust your budget yet mate?

C

sure but what costs are u up to now with the ohlins ,pipes etc..........actually scratch that..its not really about the money its about the 600ss big bore not being competative when it was advised it would be.......!

wots the issue with seperate points.?

Lets watch the top 5 spots and see how many 600ss bb or standard 600ss get inside the top 5 .?

who is gonna buy a 600ss with bb now when they know it aint competative.?

mmmmmmmmmmm

Phil

never said it was a level playing field. what'd be the point everyone crossing the line at the same time?

you want to make it level? give me a 2 lap head start.

we arent going to use ours Fil - as you all know why.The bike std is 49bhp, so not much less than yours:o

Weeksy, take care in what year bike you get...............

C

why when you already have 10 bhp on me and the 600ss boys how much of an advatage do you want dickie... ;)

Phil

b.t.w

this makes me feel great. not only did i end up way down the order but now everyone agrees i have the best bike and should be wiping the floor with everyone. thanks very much.

;)

No, of course it's not fair. We are speaking about 2 different engines, the recent one created I think 6 years after the old one. But it has always be written in the rules that all engines won't be the same. That's why I bought a 620. Ok it's a little bit more expensive but we are speaking about racing, and everybody knows racing is dead expensive. Furthermore for me, as I am not a top racer like you Dom, so anybody doesn't pay for me to ride. And without any sponsor to help me, you can be sure DD racing is costing me more money than I have.

But I did this choice, and my girlfriend love me enough to accept this. So don't cry because you can't afford a 620, make a loan et basta.

That's not even the point.

The point is that we were told that a 675 would be a match for a 620 - fact!

Then it's down to rider ability, the point of the series - fact!

When a 620 is pulling 5 or 6 lengths on at fully sorted 675 down a 300 yard straight, it's not rider ability - fact!

Not everyone has the spare cash to buy a 620, so when we were told a 583 with BB would be a match, those with little cash, bought 583's.

When a true novice pulls away from me in a straight line, it's not coz he's better, it's coz he has a machine advantage.

I know some people think I'm full of ****, but give me Geoff's bike and I'd lap as fast as him (not his week though).

So, now that we all know it's not a level playing field, how can you have a problem with seperate points?

It moves you up the table for a start!!!

This aint personal, I just feel like I'm talking to a wall :lol:

way to go!

CK you are on about the same budget, so far mine has cost me £1850 to have it on the grid as I did at Cadwell, in fairness if I didn't count the bits I already had it's actually nearer £1300. Wish I could have a DP pipe on it within that sort of budget.

Yes you can, but it's money again.

If you spent money on a big bore kit, why should you then spend another £500+ on a 620 engine?

Anyway, this isn't about having a 620, it's about recognising that there are 2 or 3 classes.

We all accept that the 620 is faster, that's barely an issue anymore.

You probaly could put the 620 engine in the 583 chassis but you would have to gut the lower brace bar just as you would to fit shorter inlet tracts. Not sure what total cost will be Jim at Bike Enders had a 5 speed engine with some damage for £375

well i definitely did out of the first hairpin!


sorry below the belt.


yeah lets have different tables then. 620, 573 660. whatever.
novices, experienced riders, under 30's, people with less than 8 letters in their surname whatever you like.

u miss the point..!!!!! the point is we were told a 600ss with a big bore would give the same power or close too as the 620.!!!! thats why some of us bought the 600ss we were accepting in the fact that it was an older bike with older suspension and brakes etc, but under the impression the power gap was able to be bridged.

And i have a big OD thanks and a loan

Phil

ps...and still i ask whats wrong with a 2 points system within the dsc? no 1 has come up with a good reason why not.

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by fil2]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear :sniff:

I was actually, for your information, Mr Weeks :P riding around the outside of him at barn, but once upright, he just pulled away, so there :P;)