moving on from the \"we seem to have an extra round\"
 

what would we like for next year in an ideal world.................

i would personally still like to keep it fairly limited, say increased to 8 rounds, single days still, but with the best 7 meetings to count.

6 - 8 rounds

2 sections within the class:

620

583 (poss with 675 in?)

thats for starters:)

A 620 ( with 72 bhp ) methinks :)

8 rounds would be good - Pembrey - Brands - Donington -Cadwell - Thruxton - Oulton - Mallory - ???

2 day meets prove better value with only one lot of traveling costs. Would like to have a round (or two dayer) at Pembrey, a round at Mallory and a round at Oulton park, should give some members of the DSC that miss out on a few of the things going on a chance to come along and meet-up. Maybe I should mention Knockhill and Croft as well. Nation club with national venues.

Croft yes that would do me and 2 dayers too :)

As for bikes/classes, would depend on how many grid spots we could fill

I would like to see the 675 BB bikes allowed to do some head work to get them on par with the 620's ,
I would like to see more cheap and cheerful 583cc bikes out there and run as a class.
And how about a class for 800cc max with minimum work to the bikes like the Monster S2 but could include BB 620s with other mods allowed.

????? so after 10 sigs u loose your vest so you have to move on from DD into mini twins ..??? LMAO are you serious.... that will be almost 80% of the field then................

for me

6 - 8 rounds single dayers.. all points count

Phil



[Edited on 8-6-2005 by fil2]

So true, before long we would probably have just a few DSC members wanting to start each year the field would soon be down to single figures and the class would get dropped.
Racing needs to be cheap to encourage others to start and those already doing it to be able to afford to do it for a few years without building up huge debts

You would be lucky if the series lasted 2 years if you did that, there are only so many novices who want to race 600 Dukes. And for some it is an affordable way to race a Ducati, which otherwise they may never do. Also for those staying in the series, they can improve there bike (& self) year on year.
But maybe to keep non previous members from joining the DSC just to race, it could be a requirement that you must have been in the club for 2 years to be allowed in DD. And those who raced the season before, offered places first.

in the 2 groups, I'd have

583/big bore 675's - riders not to have points enough to be out of clubmans - to encourage the new entry

620's open to riders who must have been DSC members for **** time - as it says in the 2005 rules

C

I think weeksy's idea is not bad. For the moment I don't have any sigs (I always forgot) but I think it's one sig for each meeting. So it would allow real novice to play in DD for 2 years (they're not going to stop in the middle of the season of course...). Then if they want they can move to something else. Or to stay within the club, the DSC could set up a new serie with allowing D2 900 by example...

I'm biased but for me what would keep me in it next year would be running my 583, there are a few about so I'd think it would be an ideal entry level class - moving up for folks when they felt ready to the more tricked 620's S2r's and the like. How possible that is I don't know. We aren't likely to get many people enter on 583's with the rules as they are. Be no point.

what about the DD'ers that do SoT and get sigs for that...........i dont agree at all that the loss of a orange vest precludes you from the DD. If you want to keep a more competative race series as you indicate steve then splitting the classes down would make more sense. Many within the DD are in the DD because it is a DSC race series and may have no interest in moving on to a series outside the DSC. A rule already is in place to exempt any new " experienced " racers from joining the dsc to race in the DD.

Phil

So after 2 years 30 or so riders are no longer allowed in the class who is going to replace them, and what are they going to do with their bikes, As Weeksy says some people will either move on or call it a day as far as racing goes, as Steve M says the series would soon be dead

u do if sot is on another day as per cads first meeting .....etc

A - I don't want to race anything else other than my Ducati and B - I think i'm starting to make a few friends here so I want to stay :)

I think it could be an issue

the bb kit is NOT available for later bikes (hence Skids/Lin & Psy all 583)

you CAN adapt an older set of pistons etc - which has cost us well over £600 in total (work & parts) to even try & make it competitive - and this was with AK doing a lot of the work - I dread to think what it would have cost if we had had to pay:o

AK would like to take ours back to 583 & ride it himself possibly next year:)

anyway: the rules are already set for next year in the way of qualification - it maybe just needs attention to a split in the class:)

Just thinking about, and discussing, this today. I'm sure there will be some that want to do several seasons (>2), and some that will want to move on after just one.

I'm for the split series, 583/675 and 620, to try and keep a lower-cost class for those that are interested in starting. For a quick (but impoverished) rider to have to buy a 620+exhaust to be in the top 5 is unnacceptable.

Cheers,

Ali

How about you leave it as it is, but...

Have a horsepower limit? (hard to enforce)

or,

Have 3 classes, 583, 675 & 620.

If you split it in to 2 classes, then not everyone will have cash to spend on headwork or whatever to compete with a 620, and if you say no headwork, then the 583 riders will be miffed coz they can't afford a BB kit.

Otherwise, I think it's pretty good for a first attempt.

As for it being a novice class - No way!!

It's a race series for DSC members - not novices.

2p

Two pence?
 

I'm gonna stick with 583 cos it'd cost too much to change (see CK's post), I think I made a pretty good fist of hanging onto Kev (Senna3) shirttails at CC, he only beat me by about 4 seconds at the finish line and with a bit more race experience I'd like to think I could get into a proper "race" with him like I did with Mike on the Strada. So 583/675 isn't too bad a compromise, and look what AK's well prepped bike was capable of at Cadders, albeit with a flying ace aboard!
When I get more experience (27 years of road riding did nothing but unprepare me for the track!) I'd like to be on a more competitive machine so maybe I'll go 620 after next year!
Who knows what tomorrow will bring? ;)

So novices get scared away from powerbikes (pointing finger) or how about getting scared away from supersport 600 - the axe murderers?

I think more novices go into these classes than any other.

Don't think experienced racers will put anyone off... they're there to raise the bar, learn from, and beat!!

;)

2006 thoughts:

Fil and Ali have shown that a BB'd carb bike can beat 620's so machinery-wise it should be a simple 2 classes - 583cc with std CV carbs i.e the "budget" way and 620cc injected (NO bigbores)/674cc carbed.

How you regulate the eligibility of riders is another matter, there will always be a difference in experience and ability as the two are not the same...............

Anyway, back to the supercharger plans....;)

How about a 3rd/4th class for JHP/DLS & Geoff? :lol:

They're in a clear class of their own anyway :(

Wonder if I can make it a class of 5 at Snett? :o

Sixty-howmuch horsepower?

Thanks Paul, I'm glad I'm not on my own thinking the 675 is plenty capable of stitching up a 620. It was proved at CC when 4 bb bikes matched me on speed and beat me on track knowledge/rider ability.
My sympathies (if that's the right word!) go to the standard 583 runners, but will there be enough entrants to justify a separate class? And would the 583's want to be fighting in their own class for an easy top 3, or making a challenge to pick off the bigger bikes?

As it stands, I say leave it like it is with one class.
If it could be sustained, I would be happy to see this as an entry level series which pervents anyone starting the season w/o a novice licence. But as I said, only if it could be sustained.

I do like the idea of a 2 day event, and maybe this could even be coordinated with 2 nearby circuits (Mallory/Donny?) to make it more interesting.

I don't think they have really. They've beaten the 5th or 6th quickest 620, but thats hardly competing is it?

Fastest 620 - 4 seconds faster than the fastest 675 at CC

So you can't put the BB675 in with 620's, it's no contest.

Equally, the fastest BB675 was 3 seconds faster than the quickest 583, so you can't group them either.

...and it's not fair to say "Tune the 675's" or "Fit a BB to a 583"

It must be 3 classes... or 1.

Then you take your pick.

fear not DD's, I think it fair to say that if it is weeksy idea is not very likely to happen :lol: Sorry Steve could n't resist.

My 2 cents, - very much uninformed opinion so don't read anything into my thoughts:

It is too early to decide exactly what the series will be for next year. Just because it was originally and idea to do it one way this year does not mean it will be the same next year, - both riders and The DSc are learning this year. I think it will stay as a very mixed bunch of people; - I spent a bit of time on Saturday talking to 3 of the top runners (not big message board users) to see how they were enjoying it, if they had any issues etc. I was really pleased to hear that they were happy, - and the main thing that came back was the friendly helpful atmosphere. I was also encouraged to hear from one of them how the lapping riders/backmarkers was not a problem, - as was said; - they have as much right to be there, and knew what the series was about when started.

What the series really needs is some media coverage from the bike press as I am certain that there is a great story to tell here, - and if we get that exposure we could perhaps have 2 series within 1 with 2 starting grids next year?

[Edited on 8-6-2005 by Ian]

But dom, the fastest 620 was being ridden by an ex BOTTs champion!

I know ;)

So does that mean that a 675 rider should be denied a race win because he/she can't afford a 620?

I think it's great to have such a high level of ability in the series, but saying that a true novice on a 675 should be expected to compete on level terms with a 620 is wrong - let alone a 620 with a BOTT's champion on board.

I'm not saying that everyone deserves to win something, but it needs to be made fairer.

I think if Phil was on a 620, he'd be mixing it with the 'top 4', but he's penalised by running a bike which we were all lead to believe would be competitive against a 620.

A 3 class championship would have no detremental effect on anyone - in fact it would mean more points for EVERYONE and recognition of your efforts on your respective machine.

Unfortuately the wheels came off at Cadwell, when it was blatantly obvious that the 583/675/620 divide was not going to work out as initially planned.

Some people don't care what happens, but there are some people who care passionately and are competitive, and we're led up the garden path to a certain extent.

I think it's only fair to recognise this, and create 3 classes within one race.

What would you rather have got at CC, a 5th & 6th or 8th & 10th??

I still consider myself a novice racer as a total of 3 SoT meetings last year yielded 2 crashes and 3 finishes, but I don't consider that not having a 620 prevented me from winning at CC.

The guys in front of were either on very similar machinery and rode better, or were on "better" machinery and rode better.

There was no one out there who beat me just because they had a "better" (= newer/more expensive) bike - in fact if anything it was the other way round, Fil, Ali and Mark didn't even have the much-vaunted flatslide carbs that I did!

This was supposed to be an entry level racing series, and ok maybe there are some guys who maybe have the advantage of talent and machinery, but it is a RACE series and therefore it is COMPETITIVE. Even if we all were given identical bikes (DUK please note?) those who are better racers (I try to choose my words carefully) will win.

Mark my words, there will be a carbed bike in the top three within the next couple of rounds.............

HMMM, My two penneth.
Im sure a few of the 583 guys take great pride in stuffing people with better newer machinery. Its the classic underdog senario isnt it, I used to race a mono quite a few years ago in the SOT and there was nothing better than coming home in front of a 916 ECT, you dont have to win to enjoy your racing. With this in mind I would air on the side of a 1 class championship, But this is just my oppinion...LOL
You may well see a shift in my views after donnington < Why , well because after a big off on the road and completely wrecking my 916 i have bought mike attacks 600ss dd bike and will be joining you all on the grid for a good old race, be it at the front or at the back.
Off topic but a big thanks to Chicken for letting me have my lucky race number back 13.
Im with fil2 and skids on the how long you stay in the series, As long as its popular you bike will retain its value:eureka:.. If you banish people as soon as the bib is gone, the series will surely follow.
See you all soon
Glyn

P.s. as far as the media coverage goes, i have been in contact with a large italian scooter manufacturer today to see if our scooter shop would be allowed to put up a scooter to the winner of the 2006 season and its looking very good, So no we cant have 2 classes or i will be skint..........AGHHHHHHH

Great stuff Glyn, see you at Donny :D

Will do mate, im usually sat on the tyre wall at redgate havin a fag watching my race after riding around the outside of everyone.....even the marshals.
glyn

:o:o:o

:lol::lol::lol:

I'll give you a wave... assuming I get to the start ;)

difference is the Rookie classes at Race clubs are open to anyone, Desmo Due is open to DSC members, if it becomes just another Rookie class the DSC identity will get lost and we will all including the supporters and MT move on to something else.

I still think the 674s should be allowed to do the job properly in that they should be allowed to have some cylinder head work done. Maybe they should have to stick with standard cams, but reworking the squish, some porting and flowing along with some bigger valves and the already allowed smoothbores should see them match the 620s.
I'm quite happy running my 583cc I would just like a few more of them to run against.

I think you've got it spot on.

good news glyn, see you there. yet another place down the finishing order i go. :P

I'm with Paul and Ian on this one,

We are running DD #10 to learn about racing on a budget and enjoy the series. The enjoyment for me is scrapping with anyone 10-20th and then being able to talk about it inm a great atmosphere later.

I have taken a long term view that is to get myself right his year and the bike slowly developed to a budget for a better go next at a top 10 spot.

My fastest race lap was top 10 in race two but my race craft let me down in hindsight, never been to cc before and never raced before ( SOT ) at Cadwell ( 3 last place!). So a 13th and 16th I was happy with.

If we can allow engine development of the 675 bikes as the rules are now and stop the 620ie bikes the series must get more competitive.

The scrap between 5th-15th is where the action is and this seems to be determined by what racing is all about???? setup, gearing, ability, qualifying, start, race craft, BALLS!

I had a great day on Saturday, roll on Donni, James is riding #10 at Snett!

And I'm on the home page, MotoGP glory!

I doubt that mate, i havent raced in quite a few years and to say rusty is an understatement. Im still bloody sore from spanking the 916 into a hospitable lincolnshire ditch.
Will be nice to meet more of the guys, I have managed to meet a few along the way, As much as the racing forging friendships with other likeminded folk,, Oh yea and a good old **** up...
Glyn:saint:

I'd just like to say that if they run a 583 class next year then i'd race next year. I'm unlikely to if it remains the same as I don't want to buy a 620 and i don't want to change my engine or spend loads on it messing around with machined this and squashed that.
I don't want to buy a 400 jap bike and go in with the rookies and you wouldn't get me anywhere near the axe murderers in the 600's.
I just wanna race my 583 Ducati in a class where my ''bike'' isn't gonna get mullered even if ''I'' do. That way I can learn to be more competative knowing full well i'm not at a disadvantage in the hp stakes within my class.
It probably won't happen - but in an ideal situation thats what i'd like.

Well said.
 

That makes two of us Lin ;)