Brands PACE DAY 18th July (report)
 

im booked in on this day, any one else going??

[Edited on 19-7-2005 by Bungi]

No

PMSL :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

why not Jon ???? you can stay at mine if you like, go for a nice mexican ...

:lol:

didn't you know bungi if you belong to this club you have to use css

No Tetol this is a democratic club with free speech:saint:
Our aim to to protect other members. Highlight and recommend good services provided by others;)

css dont do PACE Days, unless you know something???

also ESS have a ducati try-out day or two where you can borrow a 999/749 for a 20min session......not so attractive i guess if you already have one but sounds good for a laugh if you are a 748/9** or other owner

As you know Sean, I'll be there. A bargain at £89 for 5x 20 min sessions.

I do like the PACE day formats - the grouping of similarly timed individuals makes a lot of sense to me.

The only real critisism I've heard of these is that there is a requirement to carry a transponder and the associated cost - and that this is a surprise to some attendees. I suggest that anyone attending does read all the paperwork sent out before attending as its all covered in there.

Tony Scott of the ESS is trying hard to offer an improved service to his attendees and I reckon he's heading in the right direction. I recently discussed with him some of his ideas and they do seem to make a lot of sense to me.

For example - the idea of an ACU approved membership card system that tracks (via the trasponder) your individual record of laptimes at various tracks over time. (He's been promoting this optional scheme for a while).

This means that you can potentially be grouped precisely into the group that best fits your ability (and bike) and not a choice made on what information you provide at booking time. Its a bit Big Brother, but I think the gains far outweigh the losses. The added advantage of being able to track your own laptimes is greatly valuable IMHO.

It could also be that (in theory) a trackday could be just for individuals of a certain ability - so perhaps the equivalent of an inters-only day.

Or an example may be that in order to get the groups running more effectively and efficiently at say Brands on the Indy circuit, you'd need to have recorded laptimes of 51-57 secs to get into the fast group, 58-63 for the inters and 63-70 for the Novice. The use of transponders during the day would allow for any necessary (albeit minimal) changes to be made too.

Or perhaps a more open field (with an understanding by all attendees that its more open) where the Fast could be sub 60s, the inters 60-70 secs and anyone outside of this in the Novices.

I wouldn't like to be in the trackday business as it seems a tough place to be right now and a difficult place to differentiate yourself. I like the PACE format (as stated above) and with further refinement could become adopted elsewhere.

I'm still not totally convinced about the ESS SPORTS DAY format though - I reckon the added value is in there, but is not immediately obvious. Sometimes perception is reality and ironically I reckon if they charged a lot more for these, individuals may seek and better understand what differentiates these from the PACE days (as they'd need to justify the additional expense) and would sign up.

Tim

Jon you're so PC

:lol:

Very well put, although I'd add they do already put you into the correct group automatically when you book (if they've got the lap time info on you). They also move people between groups on the day based on your lap times.

I went on 2 SPORTS days last year & I think they fill an important gap between a full School day (which ESS also run) & the PACE days (which are effectively timed track sessions). The cost of the SPORTS days last year was £199 (the 1st one I went on included transponder hire). They seemed to have jumped up to £249 this year (or £211 if booked on the web). I'm sure this is down to operating costs, but I think £199 - £211 is spot on. IMHO £249 is too much.

I think the ESS range of products is definitely the way forward. They seem to be open to criticism & constantly refining them.

Tony, if you happen to read this, how about providing a few lockers (I'd pay a few quid to hire one) for those that ride their bikes to the events for storing valuables (as you know, there's a few scumbags that'll pinch your gear from the garage's).

Should I should'nt I. better not might get this thread pulled.:flame:

oh, go on .... then ring me so i can read it before its pulled ... :devil:

Oi you two! See me outside!

;)

Actually, I agree (in theory, not having attended any ESS days) with Tim. I like the idea of the PACE days but not the SPORTS days. I admire what Tony is doing in the market, trying to develop new products and I like that he's passionate about them. Every new venture and products like this has teething problems. There are other issues as well, I actually had a chat to Tony on the phone yesterday morning (I'd really like to know who gave him my phone number out of the blue!!!!!!!) and talked about those issues so they're not really for web consumption.

I think it will keep getting better and some people will love it, some people won't. The same as anything else!

then why mention it ????? :puzzled:

Four reasons:
1. - it's relevant to the conversation considering the criticism above
2. - it shows that not all criticism needs to be levelled at someone on a msg board
3. - it raised the issue of someone handing out my phone number without my consent
4. - BECAUSE I GODDAMN FELT LIKE IT PAL!

Now STFU and fetch me a donut.

f u c k off .... its a typical "look at me, i spoke to someone important and its all a secret" post .....

next he'll be on the DD management team ....

:frog:

:rolleye:

:puzzled:so are you guys going then ???:puzzled:

:lol::lol::lol:

£89 yeah ok plus a £10 for transponder hire, which is NOW clear on all the booking info, still a bargin IMHO

like ive said in other posts for me its about value for money, safety/tracktime + ducati= :D

Stop it you two, can't you behave yourself:lol:

£89 for 5 x 20 min sessions is great I reckon. - enjoy!!

Weather looks good (for now) too:-

http://uk.weather.com/weather/local/...&code=code&y=3

Just got back from a PACE day today at Brands - weather was damn hot!!!

Will post a longer message later as I was doing a "yellow" course and getting some instruction.

Tim

YELLOW (Racing Skills) This looks at the needs of those racing and those considering it. This is a one day course followed by an optional track day for practice. With only two students per instructor the training is very intensive and every move you make on circuit is recorded by digital video, this system allows your coach to spend twenty five minutes with you after each and every track session giving you a visual run down on both your strengths and weaknesses. Practice sessions without your coach are available as well as practice grid starts and practical advice on suspension, tyres, crash repairs and tuning. Completion of this course will ensure you have a comprehensive knowledge of motorcycles and motorcycle racing.

it will be intersesting to hear about your experiance, and whether you think it has provided you with what it states it offers, most importantly was it value for money?

Well I'm too knackered to give a full report - but it wasn't exactly as you described, but I didn't think it would be that either, as I hadn't read that info anywhere.

It was a one day course with two students to one instructor, with intensive training and video recording and analysis. There wasn't any practice grid starts or info on susp, tuning, crash repairs etc, but as stated above I wasn't expecting it to be.

But it was a great experience - I will post more info later, but safe to say if you're looking for some bespoke instruction from racers, its well worth attending.

Tim

from ESS website

first session was a bit cramped lots of overtaking req some guys had booked themselves in thje fast group and i was lapping em twice in a the session cant be right coz i ant no racer, sorted out better for the second session grided in order of lap times, got away of but i like to get faster progressivly and buy this yime had been overtaken by one bike, who a lap or so later was getting in the way going into the corners. i tried to get the slingshot on him outa clearways and found an almighty slide went into a tank slapper and hey ho hello tyrewall. a few cartwheels later a short rest inthe gravel.

credit to the marshalls and medic very prompt and appropriate, their experiance clearly evident in dealing with the situation.

overall learning points, "you must run wider exiting clearways" & "why dont you wait and outbrake the bu99er into druids"& "ask how many bikes the track day organiser is running in the groups"

all said a reasonably well run day by ess. id be willing to pay more £ for smaller groups, but hey this was only £89, so no complaints.

result
a very sore Bungi and some serious crash repairs.

hope u are ok mate ...

Bugga!!!

Sorry the day did'nt turn out has you would have liked Bungi, and hope the repair bill will be kind to you too.

Hope your OK mate.
When you get chance bang up a list of needed parts in market place and I will have a root through what I have left.
Heres hoping its a short list.

Bungi.....you're a very lucky man. That was a big crash & you were lucky to walk away without any broken bones & the bike didn't look too bad either (especially considering the speed you crashed at).

I know it's not much of a concillation, but as I said on the day "at least you weren't on your R".

Apart from the low of Bungi crashing it was a good day on the whole. As mentioned above, there were lots of people on track (44 in the fast group I think?) which led to quite a bit of traffic. I think the timing/ grid system eased the situation a lot though as you could get a few clear laps in before you caught anybody up, but it is way too many people for the Indy circuit.

I spent the day trying different lines/ braking markers, etc & practising some of the techniques I'd picked up on a SPORTS day I did last year. Lap times show an improvement, so I guess it must be working :)

Are you sure it was 44?

Was it the Indy circuit? The on-track limit of Brands Indy is 38 IIRC.

There were 44 names listed on the grid sheets for the fast group and 45 listed in the other group :puzzled:

I took a look over my shoulder whilst I was on the grid (from the 2nd row) & there were a hell of a lot of people there.

It was the Indy circuit

[Edited on 20-7-2005 by Wylie1]

[/quote]

Bungi.....you're a very lucky man. That was a big crash & you were lucky to walk away without any broken bones & the bike didn't look too bad either (especially considering the speed you crashed at).

[/quote]

Hospital have since diagnosed a broken rib, however i still agree that i was lucky

GWS mate