Power Commander Maps
 

Been checking out PC's on e bay

I've found the right one I think but the bloke selling it (Barry's Emporium in Co Down!) has said I'd need to load the 998s map

Does anyone know where you can get these from or do they come with the PC???

or should I splash out on the FIM ecu!!

Thanks

you can download maps from the power commander website www.dynojet.com. Im not up on this sort of thing but the chip may be a better solution because that allows ignition adjustment aswell as fueling. Im sure someone else on the board will verify this.

Chris - you really need a bespoke map IMHO - which means using a proper dyno operator who can set the PC up for your actual 998. If you take the route of a downloaded map then it may not (most probably won't) match the needs of your bike :( H

Thanks Tricky

What's ignition adjustment???

(& you thought you weren't up on these things!)

Thanks Henners

If I buy one then that's what I'll do

I thought you needed a base 998s map as a starting point for the dyno runs - I'm guessing not now!

I mean timing, you can go so far with the fuel mapping but then to get more performance I believe you have to start playing with timing. Although I believe dynojet are releasing plug-in ignition modules for the PCIIIUSB soon.

I may have also got this all wrong as Im pretty new to the world of ducati.

I've got several maps, including the base map for the 998 if you want them. I'm pretty sure they're available for download though.
The USB models are capable of mapping each cylinder ala FIM and an ignition module will be available shortly. I think the combined price will be less than the FIM though??
Playing with the ignition though is definately a dyno operation.

If you're buying the correct PC, it should have the correct map preloaded.
The correct PC part number is 714-411. Don't get any other as the connections may be wrong, or the leads too short to fit correctly.
For instance, the 996 one won't work correctly as the 996 uses a different ECU and i think the TPS connection is different.

I've bought from Barry before - I think he's a copper who moonlights with a bit of performance goodies on the side??

He's a nice fella and was a good ebayer to deal with. I bought some ZX stuff from him.

Tim

I have bought from him, no problems at all.

If you are going to fit one get a map done for your bike, if you are in london a quick ride to Stevenage will do it.

http://www.powercommander.com/ipccstalbansdyno.shtml

They recently did a mates MILLE 04 (what ever they are) for £ 120.00

OOOH.does that happen?:D;)

Thanks for all the advice

So it seems the main difference between the FIM ECU & PC is the ignition adjustment & the FIM ones come with better maps so I'm told by Neil at sigma as they're set up on the dyno & tested on the bike

Does anyone know what ignition/timing adjustment involves and the benefit/effect of ignition/timing adjustment other than more power
(which is a good thing!!)

& do you need new maps if you change the gearing

Thanks

Anybody know??

FYI - If you buy the PC 111 usb via e bay looks like £150 - 195 and JHP will install and dyno (by the man himself!) for £175 +vat (3 hours labour plus 1 dyno run) - does it take 3 hours to install a PC?

so around £400 all in

The FIM ECU is £450 + vat (£528) from Sigma & Neil said you just plug it in but if you want to set it up on the dyno it will be another £50/100 I guess so £600 all in


So only £200 in it!! less than I thought

Chris - I got Crescent to fit a PC to my MV in April. They did about 30 dyno runs to get the fueling right as the PC has the ability to adjust the mixture in 250rpm steps. I would have though JHP would want to do far more than one run which would account for the cost. I paid Crescent £170 + VAT to fit and make a bespoke map.

Maybe the bloke I spoke to got it wrong..........

1 hr to fit

3hrs on the dyno!!

Maybe not

Price seems right though

Right you lot !!
Ive tinkered with the power commanders for some time now, and you need to make sure that you get the pc which has the single cylinder adjustment. This allows adjustment to commpensate for the differing operating temps of each unit (the rear cylinder runs hotter).
The maps you download from the dj web site are your starting point, but tend to make the bike run rich (safety), but you can adjust on a dyno to fine trim the map. I bought a data logger from the states which measures the air fuel ratio and rpm etc, over a 44 minute period, and this is then downloaded to your PC.
With this you can see where your bike is running correctly, and you cant do this on a dyno, as you cant assimilate road conditions.
Looking at your A/F ratio in your rev range allows you to then adjust the PC map accordingly, but not to go on the lean side.
The Lamda sensor fits right into the two plugs on the lower bends of the exhausts, and my data logger is the size of a multimeter, and can sit in a tank bag.

It also has a neat little clamp which can be fitted onto the exhaust outlet for use where a bike does not have the bungs, although I bought 4 weld in types for future bikes.

The rpm pick up clamp is quite small and simply clamps onto the HT lead.

All this for about 350 quid, including software.

The FIM eproms are the best on the market if you are going down this route, and are configured by doing road tests and dyno work on the actual model you have.
You can also tweak your duke by using a lighter flywheel, which will give a little more responsive feel when you spin her up on the throttle. However i would advise replacing the lock nut with the two individual ones you can buy online in the states.

I tweaked my 996 sps foggy rep with the above and it make a fair bit of difference to the bike.
Dont forget to take out the inline air filters too, and fit yourself an ITG filter, or similar.

You can now tweak your cam timing too, for a little more, but have this done by a trained operator John Hacket for eg.

If i can help you any further, just email me.
:devil:

chris, not sure if you have seen this before. its my dyno chart from jhp after having the pcIII fitted and set up correctly. i would guess yours could get a similar result to this: the lower line is prior to pcIII and set up.

Demon - thanks for the advice - do you know if changing gearing affects the fuelling??

Dickie - looks pretty tasty!!

Decisions, decisions...............

In theory you could just upload Dickies map and you would be somewhere near. However, i know jhp puts something in to stop Dickie downloading his map, you copying it and up loading it.......I guess its all about protecting interests.

I wonder if they would just do this?????

Chef
Changing gearing does not change any of the fuelling parameters, it does however change where things take place.
Because your fuel Inj system has an rpm sensor within its monitoring equipment, it will tell the cpu how fast the engine is turning, and how much fuel to squirt in to the cylinders.

The amount of fuel squirted into the cylinders is also determined by signlas from the air press sensor and the TPS (throttle position sensor), and others.

Changing your gearing does this :-

Lets say you are riding along in 4th gear doing 50 mph, then your engine rpm may be 4000 rpm, all this done on standard gearing. (Figures are only theoretical)

If we go and drop a tooth on the front cog and travel along in the same gear, at the same speed, then the engine must turn faster to produce this speed (engine rpm will increase by approx 6% - if you need me to tell you how I get this figure let me know). This means that the engine will now turn at approx 4240 rpm.

Therefore the fuel injection system may be telling the injectors to squirt a different amount of fuel into the cylinders, than it would be on standard gearing. The amount of fuel it will squirt is taken from the fuel map (either the original eprom, or that from the power commander).
This basically means that you are operating your engine in a different rpm range.

It is possible to get a piggy back fuel injection controller which can adjust fuel ratios on the move, but these cost about 400 – 600 quid, and to be honest you don’t need them.

The FIM eproms tend to be the best aftermarket chips, as they have individual cylinder maps, thus compensating for the differing heat states of the cylinder (the rear cylinder runs slightly hotter than the from one, as it does not get the same air flow as the front one).

Ducati’s original chip brings the rear cylinder fuel quite lean at times, and this can be dangerous if a fault arises, it can destroy engine components, that’s why people change the chip, for aftermarket ones.

One other area which is quite a simple tuning mod is a lightened flywheel, but this does have an effect on engine performance. –

A lightened flywheel reduces the inertia exerted on the engine as it tries to spin up to a faster speed, but due to its increased momentum, keeps the engine at that rpm slightly longer when you close the throttle, before slowing down.

A lightened flywheel allows your engine to spin up faster, but also gives better response.
Due to the fact that you have lightened the flywheel, this reduces the amount of stored kinetic energy, and in the lower gears has the effect of “ reducing the mass of your bike” giving better acceleration.
You may not notice this when riding because bike clutches/flywheel assemblies are so small anyway, but it does happen.


There are other posts on this site regarding engine breaking effects of flywheels, but here’s what happens :-

Lets talk about the engine breaking produced by the cylinder firstly. This does not change, but is affected by the energy created/stored, and lost by the flywheel.
A heavier flywheel will pull engine rpm down quicker than a lighter one.
When you fit a lighter flywheel it “appears” that you have more engine breaking, but you simply take longer to lose the rpm of the engine, and thus the breaking forces remain longer.

Lightened flywheels require that you rev the engine a little harder to keep it at a certain rpm, or even to pull away from a stationary position.

I guess that’s it for now….any more questions ?
:devil:

Demon

That's really interesting - thanks!!!

My bike has got a lightened flywheel/carbon airtubes & JHP filter & will shortly have the new FIM ecu assuming Motorapido come back with a good price!! incl setting it up on the Dyno

Watch this space & I'll tell you how I get on!!

Well Chef,
what did you get ?:devil:

Not decided yet - I keep changing my mind!

Leaning fowards the FIM ecu????

For gods sake................just put the 50mm opens on and a pc111usb, then get a power run done at jhp!:D

Fair point!

spoke to Ken & to fit & set up a PC 111 is about 600 at JHP which begins to make the FIM ecu look good value at 528!!

Thanks again for the loan/test of the ecu

Crescent did mine plus developing a bespoke fueling map (30 dyno runs) for £495.

And the result? Got a scanned curve?

30 dyno runs!

bloody hell did you have to get a new set of tyres half way through.

wouldnt have thought thats much of an advertisment for them if it takes them that many runs to get something right!

Its because it was old technology, they struggled get the spares! :lol::lol:

I had my S4R set up by Dynojet UK on their own dyno.....as nelly will confirm (he went with me ) the whole process took about an hour .

I was surprised by the comments regarding 30 runs and 3 hours .

I suggest you talk to Dynojet UK who are very helpful.

TP - 'twas on the MV - I've got the chart but no scanner - fueling was perfect :)

DD - the PCIII allows you to set the fueling in 250rpm increments hence the number of runs - puts no more strain on the engine/tyres than a trackday
:D

trouble is its all on the centre of the tyre............so no change there then!:lol:

What would you Pan riders know eh? :P

At least the tyres are made solid rubber and square............