Going quick on parts of a circuit you don\'t like???
 

I guess most of us have sections of tracks we find easy and bits that leave us head scratching?
For me, I just can't get through the Gooseneck at Cadwell very well at all, I know the line to take but just can't push the bike hard - it feels like the front will wash out.
Anyone else have problems with parts of a circuit?
How do you improve?

:puzzled:

good question.......


one i cant answer well, but would love to find out. for me i just make a point of really making an effort at that part each lap.

I used to hate Mansfiled. Going downhill, on the brakes and turning in all at the same time just felt so very scary!
What did I do? I practiced. Then I practiced some more... until I got the hang of it. Now it's one of my favourite bits of Cadwell.

It seems like the bits of the circuit where I'm crap are the bits that I don't like. Seems obvious, I know, so I'll just keep plugging away until I'm a god-like racer and loving every single inch of every circuit!

Anyone know how to do the old hairpin? :puzzled:

[Edited on 27-7-2005 by NBs996]

yep.............................slowly!

I think practise is the key here, and possibly following someone through that part of the circuit, even then it's a bit hit and miss.

I've never got on with lodge at Oulton for example, never hit the same bit of tarmac twice, maybe sitting there analysing the problem may help??

CSS do the opposite from memory rather than say what did I do wrong there, ask what I did right, how can I improve on that, think positive :)

Good points Jon.
I did the Ducati Experience at Cadwell with 1 to 1 instruction and it improved things quite a bit, I just followed the instructor and trusted it would be ok, but it never felt right and that was on their well set up 748.
It might be down hill corners in general that I struggle with - I just don't go at them the same way as flat or up hill ones.

Without starting to get you panicking, could be the bike, the geometry, suspension settings, tyre pressures, riding position, line you're taking, a whole host of things.

But if someone can go through there on the same bike (maybe even your own) then it's got to be you.

A mate of mine took the 999 out for a quick spin up and over the Cat a week or two ago, and he confirmed what I thought that the front wasn't giving him any confidence, and felt light and wanting to tuck everywhere, I went over to K-Tech that weekend and had some new springs and about 3-4 hours setup time and the bike is transformed, although I haven't really ridden it in anger, they did say though that the weight distribution wasn't great on the 749/999 and it's a common problem though.

If you've got TWOTR have a read of the first couple of chapters and you'll see what I am saying about the positives, even things like missing braking/turning points and still making the corner shows that you can push more and take different lines, which maybe quicker/better.

Maybe something as sipmle as tyres or bike setup Steve.

On Monday this was my fav bit to make up some time on others, going in very wide in 4th gear.

I struggled on my R1 a month ago but the tyres were on their last legs and it was pushing the front coming out of Barn too.. but the Duke just turned when I asked her which gave bags of confidence, maybe even too much as Ian saw with the big rear slide out of Barn...

Andy

I used to hate Mansfield but after a lot of practice I'm now enjoying it, found that getting the bits before it helped lot, I'd ease just a touch before gooseneck, make sure i'm in the right position through there and on the downhill run and really focused on trying to hit the outer cone and tip into the apex cone, got all the braking over before hand and just concentrated on steering and body position. After a few laps i had confidence to push it harder, that just made the new chicane worse as i was going in faster and no matter what i did i couldn't solve it, came to conclusion Im a donkey in slow corners :)

you can't take a corner as an isolated thing, the entry and exit all have an impact, once they flow it all gets a lot easier, i find now that the left hander before charlies and then through Charlies is all just one smooth flowing action and my gear change and brake points hardly altered, wish i could do that through the wooded bit but thats maybe just me scared of riding on a track with trees, they have no place on a race track.

I'm certainly not expert enough to offer sagely advice here as I have the attention span of a goldfish when it comes to concentrating on several factors at the same time.
The best advice I can think of,though, is what I was instructed to do at one of the several ducati experiance days I did a few years back;forget about everything else stick your bike in third gear,and flow the whole circuit in that gear forget about zooming down the straight bits-anyone can do that,concentrate only on your track position.Once you've got that,particularly for corners that your unsure of you can add in....a bit more speed if needed....another gear if needed and how it affects the next corner after that.
One thing at a time.It should begin to build confidence.

Know what you mean Steve. I used to fear the Gooseneck when I first went to Cadwell. I was soooo heavy on the front in the right and left that I was sure I was going too quickly and thought I would wash out the front or not make the turn and go straight on.

There is little substitute for getting decent instruction and mucho practicing. I got some help and now realise that I need to be on the power through it and therefore loading up the back and getting the bike better balanced, followed by good quick turns and accelerating hard down the hill. Fabulous when you get it right.

I went out with a couple of No Limits instructors at Oulton yesterday to help me correct a couple of corners. Following them in and trusting them that changing my line/turn in point and quick turn would help, it was an amazing difference to take a corner I've done hundreds of times in a different way, but it certainly helped me. Plus it was brilliant to follow close to someone who is so much smoother and quicker than you thinking 'if he can I can' and coming out the other end with your eyes on stalks.....yeeha

WeeJohnyB

You hit the nail on the head there John,

Last time I was at Cadders I followed a guy who was racing his R6 the very next day and he was really quick, just having the confidence to follow his lines built my confidence too and his lines were also very different to the ones I had been taking.

I big learning curve is life, I have been swimming competatively for 25yrs and still pick little things up that make so much difference.

Andy

Funny that so many people have mentioned The Gooseneck and Mansfield at Cadwell as bogie corners - I loved those corners from about the third lap EVER at Cadwell, the one I don't like is the right hander at the bottom of the Mountain but I digress...

Lots of people have said that practise is the answer, but to me just doing things over and over again is no real answer because you could just be reinforcing the things that you're doing wrong.

So, how do you improve?

When I did CSS level 1, I got the hairpin wrong towards the end of the first third session, screwed up the quick turn drill and lost the front end. The resultant lowside bent the bike up a bit, chewed my gloves up and dented my pride. It also meant that I was approaching the hairpin very gingerly after that and to be honest a bit scared of it.

My CSS instructor for the day (Richard Snieg) and Mathew the following day on L2 decided that we were going to work on the hairpin for the, pay particular attention to all the CSS techniques on this one corner so that I could end up mastering that corner instead of it being the boss of me.

So we paid particular attention to:

The 'start of braking marker'
The 'end of braking marker'
The corner entry speed
The turn in point
Sighting the apex
Throttle control
Having reference points through the turn and on the exit
Looking wide and not target fixating
etc, etc...

So now, my approach to any corner that I don't feel comfortable on is to try and get all these things tied down. If I do that I find that I can hit the same patch of tarmac lap after lap and take consistent lines.

Once I've got the technique, I then try to add the speed. When I add the speed I find that some of my reference points need adjusting but by then I've usually got a fairly smooth and consistent enough speed and line to make minor tweaks without upsetting the whole thing.

Works for me

Exactly Jools, PRACTICE;)

WeeJohnyB

Isnt there a danger of just being good at one circuit though, instead of learning the underlying principles about how the corner/hill/hairpin (gup...gooseneck) needs to be ridden?

Frank