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-   -   Fuel tank filling - update (/showthread.php?t=21047)

Gizmo 22-Aug-2005 13:24

Fuel tank filling - update
 
I’m having a problem getting fuel tank to fill on the numpty. Ran out of fuel 2 weeks ago at 130 miles despite being certain I’d filled it to the top. On Saturday evening I went to garage took my time filling it, tipping bike from side to side as I did so, pushed down on forks and seat and could have sworn it was as full as possible, rode less than a mile home parked it on paddock stand and thought I’d check, fuel was no where near filler. Off with petrol can to garage, came back and it took almost 5 litres!! Sunday did 150 miles no problem, pulled in for fuel and once again took my time filling it, fuel meter showed 2.8 gals used yet I got about 9 litres in, I even moved bike whilst filling it to see if that worked. Once again rode off stopped after a mile or so and it was no where near the top. This happened every time I fuelled, only way round it was to fill, ride about 20 miles then fill it again, not easy in north west Scotland where fuel stops are few and far between on a Sunday. I use the fuel meter all the time and can now tell anyway but its still a guess as to how much is actually in there and I’m having to stop at 100 miles just to be safe.

Does anyone know if there is a breather on the fuel tank which might be blocked?? Or can suggest a better way to fill it.

[Edited on 25-8-2005 by Gizmo]

RD 22-Aug-2005 18:28

Hello Gizmo,

I am sorry to hear your problems with your Numpty.

Yes, there is a fuel tank breather valve it situated under the pillion seat and is white/off white in colour, round and the external diameter is 75mm or nearly 3 inches in old money. Internal diameter is 48mm x 48mm in depth.
Sorry, I'm unable to be precise with measurements as I don't have any callipers or vernier gauge etc.
It is held in place by 6 Allen screws, C shaped metal Rollover Plate (A type of washer to spread the load) then the breather valve and lastly a rubber O-ring type gasket.

The 3 items cost about £80 - £90 the plastic breather being the most expensive. The "Rollover Plate and the rubber O-ring type gasket being about £3 - £4 each.

There is a moving /lifting float within the fuel tank breather valve. I suppose this could stick or jam. I'm certain that the breather valve lets air and petrol pass in to the black plastic Fluid Recovery Reservoir located nearby and connected by hoses.

I'm fully aware of the costs of these parts because when I had my bike re-sprayed the idiot who sprayed it installed the breather valve incorrectly despite me giving him a photocopy of the original workshop manual. I have witnesses, my wife, Paul (Phsyclist), Loz, who both saw petrol pouring out the back of my bike after a fuel stop, a mate, and a Ducati dealership yet he still denied all responsibility when I approached him regarding reimbursement costs. :flame:

If you need any info on the multi just inform me and I'll have a go at scanning the manual and sending it to you as an attachment.

Good luck, I hope you manage to sort the problem.

Gizmo 22-Aug-2005 20:06

thanks for the comments, i'd seen the breather on the parts liting but didn't know if it had moving parts which could stick. thinking about it there might be a float which opens when tank is emptying leting air flow in to replace fuel and gradually closes as you fill tank. i wonder if that float is stuck in the closed or partially closed position ? Bike is under warranty and when I phoned Duc Leeds they hadnt seen this problem before. they promised to phone DucUK and 10 minutes later they called back and told me someone from Duc uk was visiting tomorrow and they'ed speak to them about it. Bike goes in Friday for new clocks ( misting problem) and they might look at it then. I'm loathe to strip the breather myself whilst under warranty. be interested to get the breather pages if you can scan them.

Sorry to hear about your problem, guess its best to put it together yourself then you know its done right, it shouldnt happen if you pay to get job done, name and shame the painter :(

BDG 22-Aug-2005 23:31

Mike

i have experienced similar prob a few times whereby you think you have brimmed the tank only to find you do cosiderably less than expected mileage. The 2 worst times were on the Lands End to John O Groats charity ride which really messed me up early in morniong with no petrol stations open in the highlands, and also down in the Sahara where there was a shortqge of stations. I think igts down to the tank design and getting an airlock in the part of the tank under the seat. Bloody annoying:flame:

Sorry for speelling this isnt a qwert keyboard here.

I have tried movong the bike, shaking it etc but one in ten it happens no matter what you do.

Rally 23-Aug-2005 01:35

I sit on the bike whilst filling and jiggle the thing from side to side... a bit like a dad dancing at a wedding... ;)

MARTIN H 23-Aug-2005 12:18

Gizmo, I have the Multistrada workshop manual on CD if thats any use to you? Let me know and I will either post it to you or meet up with you. Funnily enough I passed your house on Sunday, Wanted to let the R stretch its legs a little up the Shap road!

Gizmo 23-Aug-2005 22:27

Quote:

Originally posted by BDG
Mike

i have experienced similar prob a few times whereby you think you have brimmed the tank only to find you do cosiderably less than expected mileage. The 2 worst times were on the Lands End to John O Groats charity ride which really messed me up early in morniong with no petrol stations open in the highlands, and also down in the Sahara where there was a shortqge of stations. I think igts down to the tank design and getting an airlock in the part of the tank under the seat. Bloody annoying:flame:

Sorry for speelling this isnt a qwert keyboard here.

I have tried movong the bike, shaking it etc but one in ten it happens no matter what you do.

There has to be a fix Shaun, its impossible top do big mileage without knowing you have fuel left. I can live with the duff gauge as long as the tank fills. If i'm stuck with 120 mile between fils i might as well use 999. i'm hoping this breather thing is the problem, might pull hose of and give it blow job :)

know what you mean about french or italian keyboards, weird typing on them, try a chinese one :)

Gizmo 23-Aug-2005 22:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Rally
I sit on the bike whilst filling and jiggle the thing from side to side... a bit like a dad dancing at a wedding... ;)

yup, tried that, also tried almost lying bike on its side as well, anyone in the garage probably thinks i've gone mad :)

Gizmo 23-Aug-2005 22:31

Quote:

Originally posted by MARTIN H
Gizmo, I have the Multistrada workshop manual on CD if thats any use to you? Let me know and I will either post it to you or meet up with you. Funnily enough I passed your house on Sunday, Wanted to let the R stretch its legs a little up the Shap road!

yup, that would be great Martin, email me the file if it isnt too big if not I'll be out Sunday and Monday.

what time did you go by?? thought i saw a duc with a sports car behind about 9AM just before i headed off to the midge mash. take it the r was a bit more fun over Shap :)

BDG 23-Aug-2005 22:39

Mike its not a solution but being very slow and carefull when filling is the best i have come up with. Not really good solution.

Chinese keyboard must be velly hard werk.

Let me know when you find the solution.

i spoke to a knowledgeable insider who said the seat/ tank thing was a bit of a compromise of form over function, neither being satisfactory.

Gizmo 23-Aug-2005 23:00

Quote:

Originally posted by BDG
Mike its not a solution but being very slow and carefull when filling is the best i have come up with. Not really good solution.

Chinese keyboard must be velly hard werk.

Let me know when you find the solution.

i spoke to a knowledgeable insider who said the seat/ tank thing was a bit of a compromise of form over function, neither being satisfactory.

I think there is a problem Shaun, i fill it very slowly, stopping to let it settle etc, it seemed ok when i got the bike and only started happening after i fitted a scotoiller under the seat, maybe i knocked the valve i really dont know?? The tank should work , laverda used a very similar under seat design on 650/668/750 models, it was filled from under the pillion seat though to avoid the air lock. i still think the round valve or black box is at fault, guess i'll find out friday.

chinese keyboard is weird but most have the qwerty on the keys in between the zhuyin, cangjee and dayi, luckily the office i work in in taiwan has US keyboards as well. I can do about 10 letters and numbers of the Chinese alphabet now but its real hard work learning it.

MARTIN H 23-Aug-2005 23:43

It was about 10 am I was in company with another 7 bikes mainly R1s but one 749r as well. After getting to the roundabout near your house they decided they wanted to go to windemere so I had to endure Kirkstone pass etc in nose to tail traffic, how I wished to be aboard the Multistrada! The manual is about 400mb so would be a pain to send? I will probably be out on Sunday for a while so could meet up, have to be back fairly early as we are gigging on Sat, Sun and Monday at the blues festival in Colne.

The R was excellent up the Shap road and would keep with an 02 R1 on the very fast parts. The Tuned 04/05 R1s were pulling away though! I am still getting to grips with the handling though as it feels so hard to turn after 18 months on the MS. Am going to raise the rear and fit a 180. The previous owner was a lot lighter than me and the bike feels a lot softer than my previous 996s. I really need to spend a little time setting it up to suit me.

What an engine though! Managed to increase its mileage by 450 this week, find it hard to believe the previous owner only averaged 70 miles a month whilst he had the bike!!

Gizmo 24-Aug-2005 22:51

Quote:

Originally posted by MARTIN H
It was about 10 am I was in company with another 7 bikes mainly R1s but one 749r as well. After getting to the roundabout near your house they decided they wanted to go to windemere so I had to endure Kirkstone pass etc in nose to tail traffic, how I wished to be aboard the Multistrada! The manual is about 400mb so would be a pain to send? I will probably be out on Sunday for a while so could meet up, have to be back fairly early as we are gigging on Sat, Sun and Monday at the blues festival in Colne.

The R was excellent up the Shap road and would keep with an 02 R1 on the very fast parts. The Tuned 04/05 R1s were pulling away though! I am still getting to grips with the handling though as it feels so hard to turn after 18 months on the MS. Am going to raise the rear and fit a 180. The previous owner was a lot lighter than me and the bike feels a lot softer than my previous 996s. I really need to spend a little time setting it up to suit me.

What an engine though! Managed to increase its mileage by 450 this week, find it hard to believe the previous owner only averaged 70 miles a month whilst he had the bike!!

I was away at 9 so it couldn't have been you.

maybe meet sunday if i can, meant to be mountain biking in morning, if not we'll make it Monday. drag the numpty out again and try kirkstone, its more fun than sportsbikes :) not as much fun down Shap though. R1's and GXR1000's leave me on the quick part but you can get them back in the corners or on brakes but it ain't easy.

it looked like it needed a heavier spring with you on, i've got a 75 kg off my 999 bip which you can try, i think 996 monos came as standard with 64 or 70. my abba should fit and its only 4 bolts to swap it over, if you come up stop and we'll try it.

Gizmo 24-Aug-2005 22:57

update on breather - tonight I removed the black plastic breather box under the seat , tipped it up to get at rubber pipe and when removing the big rubber pipe noticed water was coming out ( think it was water as it wasn't petrol) don't know if that is meant to be in there but i can't see why it would be. i tried blowing down the box towards big round breather and it seemed to be clear, tried blowing through black rubber hole in filler cap, this gave a gurgling noise near back of bike so i think everything is clear. intend to fuel it tomorrow and see if it works now.

i have been out in the rain a lot in the last 2 weeks and the problem only started the day i got soaked in a torrential downpour. not sure if its relevant or not.

JPM 25-Aug-2005 18:24

Wasn't when you came to Oulton was it?

Gizmo 25-Aug-2005 18:50

Quote:

Originally posted by JPM
Wasn't when you came to Oulton was it?

was it raining that day ?:) probably was but last Sunday was even worse ( if thats possible)

Gizmo 25-Aug-2005 21:30

ok folks an update

After clearing breather and draining water yesterday I fuelled up tonight, if it was really full last time I fuelled it should have taken 2 gals or 9 litres as I did approx 100 miles ( i knew it wasn't full as on the last fill it only took the usual 8 litres when it should have been over 12). Anyway, I decided I wouldnt change speed or way I filled it, after 10 litres went in and fuel wasn't in sight of neck i knew things were looking up, at 15 litres the pump finally clicked off, rode the 1 mile home, opened cap and hey presto, fuel visible at neck of filler.

So, solution seems to be clearing the black plastic box breather and or blowing through cap and hose connected to black box. my thoughts are that the breather is sucking in either water or dust as the tank drains fuel from rear of tank. I'd ridden a lot on motorways in a lot of spray, the breather pipe outlet seems to sit right above rear wheel and must get all the crap thrown up at it.

will keep checking the breather and giving it a regular blow job to see how things go.

Rob B 25-Aug-2005 21:34

Don't forget condensation too, it's a bugger on my BMW, ally tank and all.

Gizmo 25-Aug-2005 21:40

Quote:

Originally posted by rob41b
Don't forget condensation too, it's a bugger on my BMW, ally tank and all.

that might be why the black plastic box is fitted behind the roll over valve, just checked a workshop manual drawing and it looks like breather rubber hose actually goes back to the filler cap assembly so water shouldnt get in.

TP 25-Aug-2005 21:56

Quote:

Originally posted by BDG
Chinese keyboard must be velly hard werk.

You always manage to crack me up!

:D

KeefyB 27-Aug-2005 08:07

Some good info in there Gizmo,..cheers.
I'll have to keep an eye on mine as it gets ridden in the wet most of the time.

Gizmo 27-Aug-2005 09:47

Quote:

Originally posted by KeefyB
Some good info in there Gizmo,..cheers.
I'll have to keep an eye on mine as it gets ridden in the wet most of the time.

had a chat with head tech at Duc Leeds, he agreed with the solution, said he'd stripped a tank last week and found a small amount of water in the breather box. He thought it might be from fuel cap, he says he's seen water in the filler assembly area before. Got me to thinking about where the rubber tank breather is, why did they put it on the left side of bike which is the low side when bike is on stand?? seems obvious that any water in the cap will run downhill and stop on the breather.

think i'm going to put a pipe onto the breather box with a drain valve under seat unit, bit like one of those brake bleeding kits so i can just squeeze pipe to release water or let air in. Need to work out how to get fitting into box and keep the amount it protrudes as short as possible so any water comes out. ideally this needs moulding into the box but i can't see ducati changing it.

was out yesterday and did 130 miles before i decided to fill, fuel consumed showed 2.7 gals, filled up, shook bike as i did so and 12.5 litres went in. happy :). fuel light didn't come on till 105 miles, before i drained it i never got past 70 miles, looks like i'm getting a lot more fuel into the tank.

BDG 27-Aug-2005 23:38

Quote:

Originally posted by TP
Quote:

Originally posted by BDG
Chinese keyboard must be velly hard werk.

You always manage to crack me up!

:D

Ah so Confucious say you simple Aussies velly easy 2 please:lol:

ATN MARTINH
i have some stiffer springs for the shock you are welcome to try FOC.


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