Failing rockers
 

My apologies if this has been brought up before but have any of you had rocker failures in the 4 valve motors? There are a huge number of failures here in the US of the chrome contact surfaces that ride on the cams. This leads to cam lobe damage, broken valves, shrapnel in the oil, etc. Chrome flakes/strips can sometimes be found in the pre-filter. A visual inspection is the only reliable way to spot the problem and this requires the rockers to be removed, rarely done at a regular service. I haven't heard much coming from your part of the world and am curious if this problem is as prevelant over there. TIA.

Hello Marty916

I had three go on my old engine, and I know it goes on over here with other engines,

But best not talk about it as I was told this is not a manufacture problem after sending off for inspection, and bascially Tuff Luck mate . . .

which was nice . .


regards

TopiToo

Marty....

I am guessing you're the same Marty916 that posts on the Cowin-tech board...

Jon UK here....

Welcome to the board Marty....

Everyone, if this is the same Marty, he will be a great benefit to the board, very knowledgeable guy....

This problem happens over here as well.
I know of one guy who had five rockers replaced on his 996.
Around £90 a pop this made it a very large bill for the service:o

Four rockers replaced back in April, all worn the same way ... year 2000 996BP, Ducati UK sorted the rockers on warranty, even though I was three months past the warranty end date but I still had to pay all the associated labour charges ....

Its still on my credit card to this day ....

JPM or Jon UK...small world. Noticed your posts on the Ducati Index in the past, but stopped visiting there some time ago. It was just getting stupid.

had three rocker arms flake and damage camshaft.Have been waiting a grand total of 8 weeks for it to arrive.DUK have said they will not be charging for the shaft or rocker arms.It was supposed to have been sent to dealers yesterday but they have not got it yet!!Makes you wonder how they won so many WSB titles with the sort of time scales they do things in.Bet the Fila/Marlboro squads don't wait for ever for new parts

Thats only cos they keep spares :lol:

Marty,

I had a rocker replaced under warranty at the 12k service on my 2001 748R back in April of this year. It was very minor but the dealer looks after me and replaced it anyway. It's booked in for it's final service before the warranty expires in Sept and I am getting them to check everything including rockers so that any oddities can be done under warranty.

FELIX,

Yes indeed, small world, yeah the sites gone downhill a bit, getting better again...

But for a spell, a long spell I didn't bother, too many idiots on there.... all the good guys are welcome here though!

We need a character like Eastbay 851 though !!

:D:D:D

From this thread it seems to effect later model engines. Is it throughout the range?

my old 748sp had lack of chrome on the rockers. Just thought that 97 was a bad chrome year.

lapman

Thanks for the info..
 

Thanks Jon! Always nice to see to friendly face, so to speak. Apparently the problem isn't relegated to US bikes. For those of you who don't have the scoop on this problem, the rockers on many 1996 thru 2002 4 valve motors shed their chrome plating and chew up the cam lobes. Some have actually caused valve stem tips to break off causing a lot of damage. Ducati has known of this problem since it first appeared in 96. This is the same time period when Ducati started sending out the rockers to subcontractors due to the increase in production volume created by the TPG buy in. The 2 valve rockers are still done in house and don't exhibit this problem. Ducati North America has occasionally replaced rockers under a "goodwill warranty" basis but typically the owners are told it isn't Ducatis problem. The good news is that there are alternatives other than replacing your rockers with equally defective Ducati OEM replacements. Megacycle will reface your rockers for around $70 per rocker. BCM in New Hampshire has a similar offering. Hopefully there are similar options for you folks. Thanks again for your replies.

2001 996 had rockers and cams replaced in March under warranty at 6k service.

Rockers
 

The previous posts suggest that pre-1996 rockers should be okay. Is this the case? I've just bought a '94 748 so keeping prospective problems to a minimum is on my mind.
TaIA

Reading about this failing rockers has worried me a bit,No alot!!! Is there any way i can tell without taking it apart if this problem is going to happen to my 1999 996bp pocket rocket. ie, noises/rattling/knocking ect... HELP THANKS. :(

Just had my late 2002 748S serviced at 4500 miles..............
 

1 replaced rocker!! Under warrenty of course but not good at such a low mileage/age.:mad::mad:

My old 98, 30,000 mile 916 used abused track dayed etc was serviced earlier this year, asked mike(the mechanic who has looked after it since new) to pull the cams and check the rockers. All the rockers and camshafts were ok, annettes 2000 sps had a complete engine rebuild in 2001 inc new front head and overhaul rear head, when it was serviced in april this year it needed 3 rockers in the rear head. I wonder if the the different cam profiles contribute to the problem as the the bikes are both used regulaly and warmed before riding.
Ducati were not forthcoming when asked about a warranty claim

dave

Early 2002 996S. One rocker replaced at 12k service (flaked). Engine was rebuilt by JHP under warranty at about 9k owing to oil consumption problem and damaged crankshaft (loose alternator), so I guess that flaking occurred between 9k and 12k - I say this because JHP gave the engine a good going over during the rebuild.

Just been hit by the same problem myself, four rockers on the rear cylinder on a 2002 748R after 6000 miles!!:mad:

There doesn't seem to be any real pattern to the problem.
I've had a few recently that have needed replacing. 748R a little over a year old, 6k. 748BP, '99 ish 4.5k miles, Rockhoppers ST4 can't remember details (sorry Paul), yet my own bike '98 748, has 17k miles on it and hasn't had one yet.........ever.

It's about time that it was sorted IMO. There have been several part number changes and the only thing that seems to change is the price..........it goes up. :mad:

I'm starting to look around at some hard chroming companies and see if they can be refurbished and have proper chrome plated on them. It's not rocket science. It just needs to be done properly to an agreed standard.

rant over :cool:

... Nelly and you forgot about the 6 of them that you replaced on my 916. Trackbike though so that had to be expected!

Neil just did one on my ST4S.....didn't cost me anything though - phew!:P

Rocker information
 

All,

For those of you worrying about rockers, try having a look at the Sigma Performance website. They have a lot of experience with Ducs and have some interesting theories about why it happens. Upshot is that you should always let your bike tickover (i.e. not rev it) for the first 90 seconds. This is due to oil starvation of the rear rocker arms (all drained back to the sump)

You will note that the rear rockers seem to be the ones that fail. Also more predominant on 748s than the bigger bore bikes.

Also spoke to local dealer who confirmed that it was not worth worrying unduly about.

Hope this helps some.
Cheers,

Simon

So if that's the case...... then why did one of my 996 front openers go then????

That is the problem with theories - they are just that.

Until someone comes up with the definitive answer, I just guess we're going to have to get used to hearing the immortal words, " They all do that sir! " and not worry unduly about lashing out loads of cash should one of them wreck my camshafts when comitting suicide?

Ah well, if you can't take a joke, then you shouldn't have bought a Duke;)

Cheers

Andy:P:P

Andy,

All I'm doing is relaying the details. The "majority" of the faults happen on the rear rockers and it seems to be more "common" on 748's. That's not to say that it doesn't happen in other forms on other bikes.

As for theories that's all anything is. However as Sigma see a few bikes and know a thing or two, I'd trust their evidence based experience.

p.s. how were the rest of yours holding up?

Cheers,

Simon

My point is that there are many theories, but the people who SHOULD have the answer - Ducati - seem to be both quiet in saying what causes it and not very good at solving it ( or not that bothered which ever way you look at it )

I think we are on version 4 or 5 of the rockers now?

How come I mercilessly thrashed my ST2 & the rockers were untouched.

I didn't mean it to sound like a dig at you or Sigma, Simon, but it don't arf get me back up when there is an obvious problem and the company seems to bury it's head in the nearest Fire bucket.

Oh well, at least it's stopped raining!

Andy

;):P;):P;):P;):P;):P;):P;):P;):P;):P;):P;):P;):P;) :P

And the rest of them were fine 2000 miles ago, right Neil? :roll:

Andy,

Sorry for sounding a bit narky/hurt, I'm having the mother of all days workwise.

Must be particularly galling, particularly if you have been affected.

Regards,

Simon

After having three new rockers in my ST4 I am just as fed up with it as Rushjob is. Its even more worrying when i went into Chris Clarkes (last summer) to chat about general stuff and they had never heard of there being a rocker problem! They had also never heard of anyone putting a 14 tooth front sprocket on an ST2 and didnt think it would fit anyhow!!

Re the Megacycle rockers, i have even heard of these failing so theredoesnt appear to be an answer.

My ST4 was always warmed up, oil changed at 3000 miles intervals etc yet had eaten three rockers in 6000 miles.

Grew up with Hondas in the 70s so I change the oil every 1,200 miles, filter every 2,400 miles, always let it warm up on tickover and have everything crossed .......

Is it not about time we ,as a group of concerned Ducati owners, took on Ducati Uk over this issue (1 rocker on 996S at 6000 miles...and worried about being out of warranty next April!)?

Yes, i'm with you on that one Phil. I was going to have it out with them but my bike missed its 2 year service at an authorised dealer so they dont want to know.

We should all get together and make Ducati aware of how widespread this problem really is. I know Watchdog reported about the subframe problems on the GSXR1300, the rocker thing must affect a lot more people (okay so it isnt safety related) so they might be interested in this.

Bearing in mind what Logyk says, A claim in the small claims court would cost about £50. I would be happy to put a tenner in. I do not know if its allowable to make a class action via this route. Even so a test case through the small claims court might resolve responsibility.

Failing rockers
 

I purchased a new 748s last year and have loads of problems from burning oil to warped discs! Ducati have been great warranty wise but what happens when it runs out!

I have not had any rocker problems yet! But reading this thread looks like i may have that to look forward to.

As a club i think we should certainly contact Ducati UK, remember devided you fall! What i am saying is it will be difficult to fob off a whole club and why should we be out of pocket for a design fault?

Mark

Having read all of this and with my 996s due a service - 3.5k and approaching 2yrs old I best get it in and have them check it before the warranty runs out !

Seriously though, it is annoying that if a problem like this is so widespread - which it seems, I think its only fair that Ducati as a company solve this - otherwise people will start shopping elsewhere - these are not cheap bikes to own or have serviced, so its the least we should expect - or extend the warranty period if they won't !

As regards the low mileage before I get flamed by everyone, those of you who know me, know I have another bike that I ride also, but I only ride on hot sunny days as I have a tin box with wheels for when its raining !! :)

Dave

[Edited on 7-10-2003 by muttsnuts]

996 bip, 4 rockers replaced at 12000 miles, yet they were fine at 9000 miles ..??

poxy things and DUK wouldnt pay the labour and only paid for the parts after the mother of all rows as the bike was 10 weeks out of warranty .. very much taints ownership ...

An interesting subject this! I note that most, if not all, the replies concern the "older" engines.
What about the new Testastretta lumps.

I always warm the engine on my 998s b4 moving off but will i have the same problem with the rockers???

Any ideas about the new engines would be appreciated chaps!.

I'm sure it's been stated in other threads (probably by Shazaam!) that the Testastretta lumps have a redesigned head with an additional oilway to increase lubrication to the rockers.

Now this isn't going to solve the flaking chrome problem if it's simply down to bad chroming, but it may help prevent it from happening if it's a combination of factors which include poor oil feed to them.