New Orleans
 

Is the situation in New Orleans gonna spur George Dubya into doing something about the pollution the good ole U S of A pumps into the atmosphere?

The debate as to whether or not the climate events are down to Global warming is a hot one if you will pardon the pun but can the inhabitants of planet earth take a chance that it definately isn't??

Ray.

i doubt it.

unfortunately very few people are really concerned about global warming and the destruction we are doing to the earth, until something actually affects them. myself included if im being honest.

one things for sure, at some stage its all going to go very much t.i.t.s up. probably not in out time but fairly soon.

Dickies right on this one me thinks, most people don't seem to take it seriously as the affects will be long after we're gone, god help the next couple of generations though

Probably because New Orleans has always been in a Hurricane zone and they've just ridden out every other one that's passed by. The fact that this one had their name on it and wreaked such horrible destruction may or may not be down to global warming.

The fact that people are used to dealing with Hurricanes in this part of the world, and maybe a bit blase at dealing with them, also explains why loads of people chose to stay put instead of evacuating the city.

It also speaks to their level of preparedness, I saw one report of people going into that Superdome sports stadium they were using for shelter. When one woman was asked why she was going in she said "because I could've left but I would rather die here with my family all together". The reporter asked "But couldn't you all have left town"? the woman looked totally bemused as if this was the first time that this thought had ocurred to her "Well, I guess, but it's too late now she said". Her families level of preparation amounted to bringing their toothbrushes and a large bag of crisps. When told that she might be looking at spending 4-5 days in the shelter she looked aghast - again as if it was totally unexpected, then she said "Oh well, the red cross will provide food for us", obviously oblivious to the fact that the red cross might not be able to reach them.

This is just one story. multiply that apathy by a million or so and it's no wonder you've got dazed people wandering around thinking "This can't be happening to us here in the USA"

I would agree with Jools , another point to think about isnt New Orleans mostly below sea level & if you read some stories the flooding is most down to breached levees

I read an story Thursay saying is was a question of when not if , a bit like California on its earthquake zone :o:o

just hearing on the news that the evacuation of the sports stadium has been suspended due to millitary helicopters being shot at by looters. apparently loads of people roaming the streets with guns.


only in america.

Maybe there shooting the Crocodiles and sharks :o

I read a comment by someone on another forum who was angry that the rest of the world hadn't rushed to provide aid like they did for the 3rd world countries. Go figure.

As for global warming ... George W hasn't as yet admitted that he beleives man is in any way responsible for it, has he?

As a Yank (and a 748 owner), I must say, there're some pretty cold posts above. Global warming issues aside, there're a lot of hurting and dying people. I've made a Red Cross donation just the same as I have for other tragedies world wide. Despite the national differences, we're all human. Come on guys...

no its a terrible disaster without a doubt and my heart goes out to those who have lost loved ones, their homes or posessions. but its a fact that the americans are in many ways their own worst enemies. shooting at helicopters trying to save people!
also i cant remeber who it was, but some high ranking official likened the scene to that of hiroshima........ 140k died there instantly, 40% of the cities population. not quite inthe same league.

as i said though, deepest sympathies to those who have lost so much.

I Apologize if my coments where taken badly ,that was not the reason for posting
I would not wish the same on any one :(

One thing that strikes me quite forcibly is that here we have a major city in the world's wealthiest nation. Overnight the entire infrastructure of a modern, vibrant city has been destroyed and it has become an chaotic mix of disaster zone and war zone. It just shows how thin the veneer of our civilised world actually is.

It just shows how thin the veneer of our civilised world actually is !
Or how lazy we have become at actually looking after ourselves & how dependant we are on some one else doing it for us

True! But then again how many of our city dwellers would expect to have to learn Ray Mears survival techniques overnight?

being a bit harsh here, but if you build a city BELOW sea level near the coast its only a matter of time surely.

My heartfelt sympathy goes out to everyone, everywhere, affected so tragically by the unfortunate reality of life.

But more so to the poor unfortunates that cannot do anything about situations forced on them by outsiders in the name of "Global justice" :flame:
When the "twin towers" were hit in the heinous atrocity now known as 9/11 only one comment from a dazed New Yorker sticks in my mind..."How could they do this to "us" after everything we've done for them?".
Yeah, like illegally invading their national sovereignty and killing them!?!

where`s that then mate ?

Hmmm, methinks the Dutch may have a bit of a problem in the long term since virtually their whole country is below see level-which is rising year on year................:o

John

But they've got a lot of Dykes....

Hence the volume of video footage they put out?

Cool :D

Tony, you should look for a new career in bomb disposal!

Do I feel sorry for the people stranded in New Orleans? Only if they die because of their folly.

Would you feel sorry for someone that habitually ran in front of slow-moving trucks only to be hit one day by one that was going slightly faster?

Sorry - I'm in a bit of a belligerent mood today...

:saint: Be interesting to see if they learn the lesson or rebuild in the current location.I think this may become a regular occurence in that part of the world.Wonder what they think of global warming now?Stupid people and guns,not a great combination,what will the National Rifle Association come up with to explain this one away?It's a Human tragedy,let's hope they learn a lesson so there is less chance of a reoccurence.:(

Psychlist, the invasion of Iraq didn't take place until well AFTER 9-11. I don't see how that's relative to the situation at hand anyway...incidentally, if polls matter, the majority of the hurricane victims were probably against the war in Iraq anyway. Feel better now?
The U.K. also invaded Iraq. Does that have anything to do with large scale natural disasters in U.K. being somehow justified? I don't understand your logic...
As far as a few looters taking potshots at helicopters, that is certainly NOT representative of Americans in general. How the hell can you guys make assumptions like that?! I'm fairly sure that if you were on the scene now, the level of compassion, generosity, hard work would give you a much more accurate depiction of the American people.
I'm sorry for the vitriolic attitude, but I've always considered the U.K. as my favorite country outside of my own. I had tears in my eyes when I read of the recent bombings in London. It wouldn't matter if it were a political tragedy or a natural disaster. The loss of life is the crux of the damn matter..even to my friends and co-workers, it was as if our fellow countrymen were the ones who suffered.
I guess you've heard of the 800 or so Iraqi's who perished by jumping off the bridge over the Tigris river. They heard rumors of a suicide bomber on the bridge, and so decided to jump for it. Does the fact that it wasn't the smartest thing to do make their deaths somehow acceptable?! Not in my book.
Of COURSE New Orleans was way overdue for something like this. The lack of planning by civic leaders, building commissioners, etc was way overdue, and RARELY is a lesson learned at so great a cost. :( As swannymere stated above, it will be interesting to see what the rebuilding of a great city will entail...
Again, sorry for my hot head, but a few of the comments above quite shocked me.
Americans may be a bit fat on the average, we definitely have some lousy cultural stuff going on- (the state of television is why I cancelled my cable TV years ago;) ), but by and large, Americans are GOOD people. Even the Harley guys, with their constant charity drives and toy runs. :)
And yeah, for what it's worth, I've been against the war in Iraq from the beginning.
Also, having a Ducati in the states- especially in the midwest (St. Louis, MO), makes me a bit of an oddball. The local Harley riders keep asking me when I'm going to get a "real" bike:barfy: Needless to say, I've got Ducs in my blood, and have for all of my life. Unfortunately, being a lowly welder means that I have a hard time with all the maintenance costs!
Later all, and keep up a great forum! Frog-man

Incidentally, as regards "greenhouse gases", I'm not entirely sure how much they contributed to all this.

I am aware that they tend to strengthen any type of weather system, and they certainly don't help matters any.

It would be nice to enforce some kind of legislation, in the U.S. especially, discouraging the use of big damn SUV's, oversized trucks...although with the way petrol prices are headed, maybe, it'll be self correcting. It'll just take longer though...


.

Well, after 6 years in Houston I have a couple of good friends and Collegues in NO that are involved in this tragedy...my heart is with them.. one of them lost everything, house, car..BIKE... right now is renting an apartament in Houston and is planning to stay there for a month ..that's what the authorities are telling people that right now doesn't know if they still have an house.. do not go back to New Orleans..
Of course these that escaped in time are the sensible people.. as most of Americans.. they are not looting or shooting to choppers.. but bad and poor desperate people are everywhere.. In US, in Italy, in UK...
Peace men... and I am praying for who lost more than just material things..

My heart goes out to all those affected, I hope that President Blair is offering technical assistance from the UK's emergency and military resources.

I dont want or intend to be devisive or confrontational but listening to an "expert" on radio 4 (obviously beyond reproach) they said that the occurence of hurricanes/frequency and level is cyclical and it was this bad in the 1960's. That means that Geo. W Bush's policies and handling of the Kyoto agreement has little or no effect on Hurricanes now or in the future.

Thats not to say that the Geo. W Bush administrations anti Kyoto stance doesnt effect someone or something else but you shouldnt expect Geo. W Bush to change his mind because of the disaster that has hit Missisipi and the other states.

As a frequent visitor to the US over the last twenty years I have been humbled many times by American genorosity and kindness I hope that we can in some small way contribute to easing their troubles.

Frogger me old fruit, I've got quite a few friends and acquaintances both Yankees and Reb's, Harley riders as well as Fireblade toting street bandits, if you'd read my post you'd know where my sympathies lie mate, with everyone suffering everywhere, whether that's from the devastation in New Orleans or from the First invasion of Iraq years before 9/11. The people in New Orleans chose to stay even when they had been made clearly aware that their lives were in mortal danger and they had the option to get out, those innocent members of a populace who died with the guilty because Blair and Bush wanted to prevent Saddam (yes he was a butcher) holding us hostage over his countries oil, didnt have that choice, they just died.

Edited to add:- Why were the levee's around New Orleans not fortified years ago when the city (army) engineers said it was necessary? G Dubbya apparently refused the funding to pay for the 2nd Invasion of Iraq.
Why was New Orleans so vulnerable? Decades of destruction of natural coastal defences to make way for human development.
It's not only the Dutch that should take note, quite a bit of southern England is at or near sea level and sinking.

[Edited on 2-9-2005 by psychlist]

After the shocking pictures on the news regarding the above and in no way wanting to get involved in argument regarding our friends across the "pond", I wonder if George Dubya would have acted quicker if the poor souls who are struggling in the South were white and not of black origin as most of them seem to be. Also maybe its down to their level of income as the wealthy have fled leaving the poorer class to fend for themselves!!! Maybe its down to votes at the end of the day!!!! This will probably finish GWB and good riddance.

this really is turning into a huge disaster.

mainly because the american government are doing ntg to help. i'm just listening to a radio interview with the mayor, and he's a bit ****ed off to say the least.

they seem to be able to illegally invade other countires quick enough but dont give a stuff about their own.

bush will fall on the back of this i recon.

The powers that be seem to be more interested in stopping a few looters than saving the thousands that have no food, water or shelter.

The good ole boys might be good at weilding the big stick but have a lot to learn about showing a bit of old world compassion.

Shoot first save the desparate second??


Ray.

Couldn't agree more. Richest, most powerful country in the world with, presumably, more resources on tap than any third world country. Unlike the Tsunami disaster you would think that they wouldn't have to ship stuff half way around the world to get aid and assistance to people.

But where is the leadership to coordinate rescue responses?
Where are the civil engineers to repair the levees?
America has more civilian helicopters than any other nation - where is the organisation required to commandeer them and organise airlifts? (I'm talking about airlifting the people on the islands of dry land where an ordinary civilian pilot could land - not the professional job of winching folks from rooftops)
Where is the leadership required to make sure that IF such a thing was arranged the helicopters wouldn't be sniped upon or overun with people frantically trying to get on them?
Where are the food drops?

It just seems that nobody has a clue what to do. As for the reaction of Dubya it just shows what a clueless jerk he really is when he can't hide behind the spin.

Incompetent, Impotent, Inept response to a truly awful tragedy

Well put Jools, I wholeheartedly agree.

Not wishing to join a bun fight, but the Dunkirk spirit springs to mind

headline on bloomberg news:

BN 14:04 *BUSH SAYS RESULTS OF RELIEF EFFORT SO FAR ARE `NOT ACCEPTABLE'


if he was on mastermind what would his specialised subject be?...........'the bleeding obvious' :puzzled:

If American presidents were sacked for either idiocy or incompetence, the USA would need elections every 4 weeks, not 4 years.

It would be nice to think that Dubya might fall over this disaster, but it's not very likely.

Have read some of the postings on this site about George W how about getting rid of the **** running England?

:saint:What Sven?:devil:

Him Too! Although there is much doubt over whether he does actually run The English Team:sing::sing::sing: