A more expensive pastime than Ducati ownership
 

I've just achieved a lifetime ambition and done something that is just as exciting as riding my Duke, just as addictive but exponentially more expensive.

As a birthday present from a few weeks ago I've just been up in a helicopter for the first time and briefly taken the controls of a Robinson R22. The thing is incredibly sensitive to control inputs and it's almost as if you just have to think where to go and it goes there. Just keeping the thing straight and level is an art - and that's when they only let you loose on one set of controls at a time - goodness knows how much coordination and practise you need to balance all three controls.

An amazing and addictive experience, but at £200 an hour I don't think I'll be doing much of it, if at all :(

Stay away from those things :o:o:o

I've flown in more helicopters than I've had hot dinners and they suck :( Many's the time that I've landed and the fitters come and bolt everything back down :lol:

btw Wasn't Steve Hislop flying a Robinson when he met his untimely and tragic end?

I've always wanted a pilot's license ... one day maybe ...

Hey TP don't you find beer more expensive than Ducati ownership?:lol:

Pilot's licence a lot cheaper than helicopter licence. If only you would give up those two very expensive hobbies - Ducatis (plural) and children (plural) - you could have gotten three of them by now.

Steve was flying an R44.

I've done a few hours in an R22 and based on what i have learnt about them since i dont think i'll be doing any more! If you look at the AAIB site there are two or three incidents involving R22's each month.

Lets just say that they have some very "interesting" handling characteristics. Loss of engine power is one issue. In certain circumstances you've got two seconds to lower the collective before the rotor speed decays to a dangerous level.

Its was great fun at the time though!

Good point :(

I'm seriously biting my tongue here ...

Besides, you need fixed wing before you can get a 'rotary' license don't you?

[Edited on 7-9-2005 by TP]

No you dont Tony. If you have fixed wing you can get some allowance off the nav bits of the rotary wing licence and vice verca i think.

Pourquoi? I'm allowed to have my opinion on here same as any other topic that I know nothing about. I was given this information by a friend of a friend who works with a guy who used to date someone who definitely knew.

Cool, I just want a helicopter license.

Last time I was in one I jumped out though - I might need to revise that position ...

I didn't see your opinion request come through my inbox so I wasn't aware you'd been given one.

Please accept my apologies.

;)

Apology accepted. As you were....

I know what you're saying Rockhopper but most of the R22's reputation for mechanical failure comes from it's early days of development. Apparently these days only 7% of crashes come from mechanical failure and the Lycoming 0-320 engine is regarded by most pilots as pretty bullet proof.

Most of the R22's reputation as a crasher comes from the fact that it makes flying training relatively affordable, so it's used as a training machine which by definition is going to have more incidents caused by rookie pilots.

Mind you...we did have one incident just before I took control. The instructor said "oops..we've got a small visitor" and there was a bee crawling up the inside of the canopy. The instructor handed me a heavy flight log book and told me "just kill it". So I swatted it and it fell into the footwell. I knew it was dead because a lot of it was smeared onto the perspex but the instructor did seem concerned about where it had gone. When we landed he told me he was allergic to bee stings.

Jeez....I thought! That's all you need...first time up in a helicopter and the prospect of having your pilot go into anaphalactic shock. Could it have been an amazing story of how a first time pilot landed safely with a comatose instructor? No...I think we'd have died!

Nice one Jools, glad you had a memorable trip. Took the family up in a Jet Ranger once , nothing like it, nothing better. All that vibration and noise , bit like riding a Duke .4D

I'd be inclined to go along with what Jools is suggesting about R22 incident rate... It's probably the most popular helicopter sold to private individuals who fly because they can aford to rather than because they're able to. Just my opinion tho, without any facts.

Rotary wing flying is like most other things, including riding, in respect that all them controls will become second nature with practice. It just takes a LOT of practice.

If you want a real 'smelly trouser' experience, think about sitting in the right hand seat of a Gazelle with a RAF Test Pilot in the driving seat who just wants to have a bit of fun - I still feel for those poor sheep!

Jools, did the same as you for my birthday a couple of years ago .... agree with how addictive it could become.

The R series helicopters are undeniably popular but read the comments on the AAIB site about steve's accident (and other accidents in the past few years) and you would start to worry. It is easy to fly but very unforgiving when things go wrong. I know several helicopter pilots who won't have anything to do with them!

Tony, my old boss converted from fixed wing to rotary and even with his exemptions it still took him over 40 hours (at £175 an hour in those days).

Edit... Dangerously low rotor rpm isnt always caused by an engine failure, certain flight conditions can cause it as well. I'm no expert though.

[Edited on 7-9-2005 by rockhopper]

What does a small child go for in Thailand these days?

Don't go there Tony........



no seriously.....don't go there. It's too hot this time of year and the rainy season is just about to start.....


ps did you get my last u2u? I've not heard back so I'm guessing you are too busy choking back the tears from my overwhelming generosity.

[Edited on 7-9-2005 by chicken]

DO NOT FLY IN A ROBINSON!

I have flown, and still do, in choppers in europe and the middle east!, I have even crash landed twice in one day in two different Hughes 300`s but I would never fly in a Robinson!

Umm ... something like that!!

It is a very generous offer, I didn't think I'd get that much for the children!

As for Thailand, I'm going anyway. In December at some point I'll be on a liveaboard doing some diving and chilling around the Similan Islands.

:D

Heli
 

Jools
Have you tried Glider flights and lessons are comparable a lot cheaper.
and you dont have to worry about loss of power cause they aint got none.
Plus for a small outlay a group of you can buy and share one as maintenance is minimal compared to a helicopter.
ian

sounds like you had a good time jools.
I've allways fancied doing the heli thing, but never been 100% about some of the small ones.
Someone on the my wifes side of the family( gods knows who) flies harriers, now that would be a great day out, best of both worlds.
now where is my G-suit;);)

cheers

Nice one Jools, I'm envious to say the least. As for the R22 - I don't know anything about helicopters but I see it came 2nd in C5's 'top ten helicopter' programme this week - same position as the 916 did when they did 'top ten bikes' - so it can't be all bad can it???

Having said all that, I was talking to a fireman at Silverstone a couple of years back about helicopters and he didn't like them - said if they get a fixed wing down, there's sometimes survivors, but when a helicopter comes down, there's generally just wreckage...

Martin

Never fly in an aircraft where the wings travel faster than the fuselage!
The R22 is okay but needs respect, perhaps more so than most other choppers.

The thing that sticks in my mind was how small it is inside!

Yep, went up for a trial flight with a group of people from work (The London Gliding club is only a few miles away from me at Dunstable). There were about 5 or 6 gliders doing 10-15 minute flights on a round robin basis and it was just pot luck which glider you got to fly in. Fortunately the pilot in my glider was the most senior instructor in the club and when he saw me do up the four point harness unaided he asked me whether I'd done it before. I said I hadn't but I knew about the harnesses from my rally navigation, whn he realised that I was an adrenalin junkie he offered me the alternative of a 10-15 minute float around like everyone else or 4-5 minutes of aerobatics :D Naturally, I took the aerobatics...it was excellent.


You're not kidding...makes my wifes Smart car feel like a stretch limo

:lol::lol::lol:

On a final note, I've been fascinated by flying (and going fast) all my life but have never had the money to learn to fly. On balance I prefer fast things and I've got an expensive Ducati habit to feed, so I won't be taking up any sort of fixed wing or rotary wing training.

But, here's the weird thing....I am fascinated by flying but absolutely terrified of heights and I mean to the point where on the first level of the Eiffel Tower I was absolutely frozen with fear. Gut wrenching, cold sweat, dry mouthed fear and gripping on to the nearest bench seat with white knuckles just because I could see through the trellis work down to the ground. Now, the damn thing has a pedestrian walkway around it as wide as a street, it has wire fencing to stop anyone tumbling over the parapet, it's impossible to fall or jump off it and it wasn't likely to have stood for 100 years then collapse just because I was on it that day. So you can be entirely rational about it but I was still terrified. The same is true for any tall building and you wouldn't get me within half a mile of a cliff top.

And yet...put me in a flying machine be it a commercial airliner (in which I've spent countless hours) or a light aircraft, or a glider or a helicopter and I'm absolutely fine. Yesterday, bobbing about on the breeze in a flimsy perspex bubble 1500 feet above my house (I only live 5 minutes from Cranfield as the chopper flies) was in a different order of risk to standing on a concourse up the Eiffel Tower, which frightens the crap out of me, and yet I was loving it.

Explain that one Mr Freud

It's something I've toyed with off and on, having done a few helicopter trips through the grand canyon, and one of the pilots thinking he was flying airwolf it was probably one of the most enjoyable and memorable experiences of my life to be honest.

But I knew how many hours it would take and the costs involved to go for a pilots license, so never really given it much more thought... but the cogs are whirring again now :)

Glad you enjoyed it Jools, any tips? :lol:

Minichamps seems to be quite an expensive hobby i find :D

[Edited on 8-9-2005 by ziggi]

The problem with flight training is that you have to stay current. Gaining the licence is only the first expense.

I first gained a licence (fixed wing) some years ago, but allowed it to lapse through disuse. However, in 2001 I decided to give it another go, and returned to training. I had half a mind to gain my instructor's rating, and change my career. Many more hours were spent in the air (and the classroom) and eventually I gained my PPL - again!

However (for various reasons) I came to the conclusion that a career in aviation wasn't really for me. What's it cost me in total? Don't even ask!!

Best be sure you want to do this before commiting to it. Long-term, it'll cost you loooadsamoney!

Steve

"On a final note, I've been fascinated by flying (and going fast) all my life but have never had the money to learn to fly. On balance I prefer fast things and I've got an expensive Ducati habit to feed, so I won't be taking up any sort of fixed wing or rotary wing training.

But, here's the weird thing....I am fascinated by flying but absolutely terrified of heights and I mean to the point where on the first level of the Eiffel Tower I was absolutely frozen with fear. Gut wrenching, cold sweat, dry mouthed fear and gripping on to the nearest bench seat with white knuckles just because I could see through the trellis work down to the ground. Now, the damn thing has a pedestrian walkway around it as wide as a street, it has wire fencing to stop anyone tumbling over the parapet, it's impossible to fall or jump off it and it wasn't likely to have stood for 100 years then collapse just because I was on it that day. So you can be entirely rational about it but I was still terrified. The same is true for any tall building and you wouldn't get me within half a mile of a cliff top.

And yet...put me in a flying machine be it a commercial airliner (in which I've spent countless hours) or a light aircraft, or a glider or a helicopter and I'm absolutely fine. Yesterday, bobbing about on the breeze in a flimsy perspex bubble 1500 feet above my house (I only live 5 minutes from Cranfield as the chopper flies) was in a different order of risk to standing on a concourse up the Eiffel Tower, which frightens the crap out of me, and yet I was loving it."

Try a hang glider Jools-that should fix you.
I've done the glider thing, great fun, best though was an unscedualled trip on 002 Concorde-I used to work for Singer Link-Miles who made flight sims-they did the Concorde one. I had a meeting at Filton one day to look at the pilots seat and was asked if I fancied a trip................did I ever. Pilot was Trubshaw-chief test pilot, we went down the runway on full burner and when it rotated it went up literally like a rocket. They didn't used to bother about noise at Filton-everyone locally used to work either for BAC on one side of the road or Rolls Royce, who made the engines, on the other-magic!

John

Jools, all that stuff about heights and flying? Me too!
I love flying but I'm not good with heights at all. I am getting better though. I regularly have to be suspended in a cherry picker at 40 odd feet up, and daily take a stroll along a wing 20 feet up so I am slowly coming to terms with it.
I try to stay well away from helicopters though, hate the things!
Funny thing is, everyone I know who has had any dealings with them will always say what deathtraps they are too! :o

Regularly fly my helicopter with my littel lad...and its a damned sight twitchier than an R22 - dont know what all the fuss is about .. ??:lol:

Nat