Can you do the DD double - 583/620?
 

Any thoughts.....

Can you do both? Logisticaly, timings, if your bringing one bike, not too much more to bring another? Share spares etc..

Or can you enter the 620 class on a 583? and just run one bike....

Discuss..

I can see this one getting juicy :D

Unlikely, I can't see qualifying being done together, races next to each other etc, etc....

You'd get a great advantage if you can warm your tyres before going into the next race or next qualifying, etc, etc....

Besides, by the sounds of it, there'll be a full grid for each and you're unlikely to get a spot on both.

Tim

Current theory would indicate that, should we acheive a two grid status, there could well be a gap between the races to allow:

a) racers to watch their counterparts in the other series
b) racers with sufficient funds to partake in both series

Logisitcally you could expect double the majority of items, servicing, tyres, oils, fairings (for those who find the lure of gravity overwhelming), etc.

You would, of course, need to pay for both classes (£95+£50; 2005 fees) as well, and hope that you don't injure yourself in the first free practise of the first round thereby putting yourself out of racing for the season having re-mortgaged your house, sold your children, and spent untold nights around the back of kings cross earning the money to support your filthy habit.

Having considered this at length, I can conclude that the best option woudl be to participate in one series and share a bike in t'other. This would allow focus in the preferred series and experimentation in the 'shared' series, more track time, but not so much that you fall into a coma on crossing the line, more expense, but not so much that you can't turn down the last client of the night.....

Yours,

Ali

ps: Remind me not to write while listening to University Challenge.... :lol:

Sounds the same as doing SOT and DD at rounds this year...can't be that much different?

I've shared a bike this year and it's been good, able to enjoy being at rounds and miss a round without stress, as long as you don't give a sh*t about championship standings? Half the cost too....

If you own a race prepped 674,like us...it's not worth much on the market may as well keep it as a spare bike, and use in 583 class? find a 620ie for the expensive class.

...after making it a 583 again, of course :P

Right - I'm up for both then!!!!

The 583 round would be great practice for the 620 - or the other way round!!! ;)

Anyone know of a cheap 583 going anywhere ? :o:o:o:o:o:o

Do you think the 583 guys will appreciate the more afluent members using their race as a practice session? Likewise anyone doing 620 for 'practice'.

I may be wrong, but I would have thought that 583 riders will be doing that series because they can't afford the £5000+ it takes for the 620 class.

Those who can afford it now have an advantage over those who cannot.

If all I could afford was the 583 series and was putting 100% into it, I'd be severely pi$$ed off if I knew half the 620 lads were using it for 'practice' for their race.

I personally think you should commit to ONE Desmo Due championship, and if you want extra practice - then gate crash another series, or do more trackdays - if you can afford a second bike.

Spirit of the series anyone?

I know this is a DSC race series, but let's not get carried away.

Pick your weapon and go for it.

I haven't decided what I'm doing yet (748 or 996 included!) but even if I could afford it, I would do one or the other and concentrate on that.

I didn't mean to infer 'practice' in any class...I'm suggesting the best way to learn racing is to race....and having an option to 'race' in each class as an equal competitor to everyone else.

I see the logistics costing the same, the only additional costs being running another bike in another series.

Not bad value I think...

I don't really see too much of an issue with entering both (you can enter every race in a meet if you want!), but I'd like to see those NOT entering the other series given priority over those entering both. If the grids get full for next year then everyone should have to nominate a 1st choice and a 2nd second choice or similar.

Tricky.

I'm all for that Ali.

583 would be the option for an extra race for me, as I have a place in 620.

Numbers are a bit shy in 583 so it can't hurt to boost the numbers?

1st choice...Fully sponsored ride in 620
2nd choice...674 fettled to compete in 620
3rd choice...1st choice and 674 sleeved down in 583.

It's going to be a long winter....lucky we have a race before then...

:(:(:(:(:(:(
One day maybe...

If you want an extra race in order to progress quicker - do sound of thunder on your 620 or 583.

That way you only need 1 bike, and you won't upset anyone in the 'other' DD class.

Sometimes biting off more than you can chew can lead to doing half a season in 2 classes, rather than a full season in one.

I don't mind what anyone does, I know that when I get my form back and I'm on equal machinery, I'm as fast as anyone. I just think this could be detremental to the series in the long run.

You must appreciate that your decision to do both classes is likely to impact on the small budget, slower riders, who instead of going up the results, are likely to suffer due to people with deep pockets buying up grid space in every class - just because they can.

You spend every spare penny you have getting to the grid with a 583, it's a real struggle, but you know that now the grid is split, you may have a chance of getting that top 10 spot - Only to discover that 10 guys from the 620 class have come in (more than likely for practice) and now you're back in 20th spot again. Before you know it, there will be 20 guys doing both championships and not much else.

One rider, one bike, one series.

Extra races/practice can be had in Sound of Thunder - where you're not gunna impact on anyones season.

[Edited on 19-9-2005 by domski]

Great!!!
- I'll get the 620 and buy a 583 for the two DD classes,
- I'll run the 996R in the SoT
- get a Honda Hornet for that class,
- a couple of 2 strokes to cover the 125, and 250gp classes,
- buy the ZX10R back for Pro Bike activity,
- and I'l stick a broom up me ar55e and sweep the paddock too!!! ;)

I was thinking of a SV650 for Minitwins, but don't want to tire myself out!!! ;)

I'll help with the broom :devil:

You'd probably drop that too!!! ;)

Bastid ;)

I like the new caring Dom,especially when hes the first to offer help to a fellow member!:lol:
Butch

yeah! Wot he sez :P
There's only a couple more needed for a 583 grid (whatever that means, I still haven't had any confirmation about whats happening next year?) and I dunno who's in, but if any newbies wanting to do 583 racing lose out cos you "big" boys want to double up then I think you deserve something akin to the "trophy hunting" cat calls we had at the start of this year from one or two of you who may be in favour of doing "the double"!
So there :P :devil: :P

Before you lot go off on one, perhaps you should wait until the 2nd draft of the rules come out, tail end of this week and we have had our meeting with New Era in November regarding grids for the series next year.

As Psychlist has said above we need a few more in the 583 grid to firm that up, 620 class is already over minimum level.

Chris

whos to say someone from the 620 class, would necessarily push any of the 583 entrants down the grid? i'm pretty sure i wouldnt.

and anyway, whats everyone looking for? a nice easy series where you can pick up silverware or something thats represents a challenge. i'm not bothered about the fact that there are so many good riders in the 620 class. i'll go out and try to do my best against whatever opposition is out there.

i prefered the "i could go into a long discussion" one. :D

blimey phil :o

give us a chance to reply, no sooner i read it, than read it again then it disappears. oh well i'll just see you on the grid i guess. ;)

[Edited on 20-9-2005 by dickieducati]

Gets my vote.................

LOL..oh dickie mayhap you cast your rod elsewhere..!.......

I chose to delete becuase its futile..................reistance is futile.................... :borg:

i dont want to race in 583 now...........everyone ganging up on me :(

i'm just gonna stay in 620 and get my arse wupped there instead. :D

If you want extra races you can enter the sv 650 class, they never get any sv650s in it so it would be just like another dd race. I think that the 583 class should be for novices only.

Not in the rules yet, but I am thinking of something like:

In the event of a grid being oversubscribed, preferance on entries will be given to riders only entering one Class

I was about to agree, when I thought of Skids.........this year's top 583 protagonist and budget racer supreme......

Hmmm, there's always one!

That would certainly effect me after running a 583 all this year, but I am aware it could be a option and I would happily campaign a 675 with a bit of head work as kits will soon be getting sold 2nd hand, but if there is no provision for a bit of porting etc running a 675 against 620's would be pointless just as I realised it would be this year.

I could campaign a 620ie but I want to stick with my 600SS chassis so fitting a 620 engine in the chassis that would be exspensive way to do it and then I would probably find I was entering more NG Minitwins races as entries for Pembrey are £70 for 2 races a day and NG usually have 3 two day meets there in a season.

Also part way through the 2006 season alot of this years participants will cease to be novices, as with other novice classes they would be allowed to continue in the class to the end of the season but what would happen the following year. If there were only a handful of novices would the class be dropped to make way for more 620's or would the 583 class be opened up to non novices as well.

Lots of cans of worms to be opend here and I don't envy Chris, Monty, Mike etc having to come up with rules that suit everybody.

That would be one less 583 bike out there, MINE:mad:
I wouldnt enter the 620 either as its not exactly budget racing .
:sing: Glyn

Dont really understand this one,other than the original purchace price (recouped on resale) how can the 620 class be any dearer than the 583's.
Butch

no i'm with you on this, but i know what people mean about having to initially stump up more cash which they may not be able to find.

I agree with Geoff on the 583 being for novices - from 2006 onwards.

Anyone who has competed in DD in 2005 (without whom, there would be no series) should be allowed to choose whatever class they like, regardless of experience etc.

However, if they then leave the 583 class at a later date, then they can't come back in.

Just like in 125 gp's etc where they age limit came in, but current riders over 25 could continue to compete, until they moved on - thus preventing them from returning to 125's again.

Something like that should be in the rules.

However, now I'm thinking about it, I'm going to disagree with myself.

Not everyone can afford a 'competitive' 620, whether they're an ex-world champion or not (and not ridden for 5 years), so you could end up with a lack of 583's if the stream of novices dries up.

Maybe it would be better to keep the current rider eligibility rules in place,

adding...

"Should you fail to register for subsequent 583 championships AND compete in at least 2 rounds, you will be deemed ineligible to compete in future 583 championships. Subject to the race committee's discretion"

So, if I did 583 next season, and then registered to do it again in 2007, then I could, but...

If I registered for 620 in 2007, or simply didn't register and compete in at least 2 rounds of 583 in 2007, then I would forfeit my right to enter that series in 2008, and would have to do 620 or something else - unless my Uncle Chris or Unlce Monty let me ride in 583.

How does that sound?

Running costs are the same, as you rightly say Butch.

Not everyone can afford to purchase a 620 in the first place, regardless of whether you get your money back when you sell it.

...and it may ONLY be £2500 or whatever, but I don't have £1000 to buy a bike.

Loose change to some, is a fortune to others :)

classic!

if only weeksy (god bless him) was the same. we could have just let him get on with it. :lol::lol::lol:

i kind of feel people are trying to make it too complicated. have to have done this for so many races; have to have a novice vest from this date; have to have had fish fingers the night before, blah blah blah.

how about giving it a few weeks seeing what the numbers are and then just letting series run?

i thinkyou;ll find it will all come out in the wash quite nicely.

at the end of the day no matter what grid you are on or who else is, you are still trying to beat whoever is out there

Ok folks,

Uncle Monty and I are going to burn the midnight oil and have the 2nd draft rules out to you all tomorrow afternoon. We think that we are nearly there now, with sufficient safeguards, etc to protect the two classes, keep the racing close and a lid on the budgets.

No doubt there will be further feedback, which should be directed to Desmodue@ducatisporingclub.com

That doesn't sound anything to me. Couldn't you do it even more complex? :lol: