PC3 & Custom map - result!
 

Following my little problem with the ECU last week I have now taken the plunge and got a Power Commander 3 fitted. This was done by Dynomax UK Ltd of Lincoln (formally Horncastle). Price quoted was £297 fitted, plus £88 to go on the dyno for a custom map.

Excellent service, very friendly and the fuelling was all explained to me. The bike now feels a lot smoother on a test run last night.

Max has a Hailwood Replica that he has owned since new, and might well be joining the DSC. He was concerned about being the only bevel owner in the DSC but I assured him that was not the case. I dropped the bike off about 9-30 and it was ready for me to fetch after 1pm. Very knowledgable chap, and I had an interesting afternoon chatting about bikes.

I also managed negotiate a 10% DSC discount with him. :eureka:

http://www.dynomaxuk.com/dyno_thefacts.html

They do lots of other bling too - including Gilles rearsets, Zero GRavity screens, wheels, suspenion & exhausts.


[Edited on 1-10-2005 by HW]

[Edited on 1-10-2005 by HW]

Henry you have a u2u.


Chris.:burn:

HW, would it be possible to get some more details on your ECU problem and what exactly the PC resolved for you?? If you saw my other thread I just installed a full system on my 749s and now is has a pretty good flat spot between 5-7k if you roll in it too hard. I think it was the nature of this engine even in stock trim and my exhaust aggrivated the situation. The bike overall is just running immaculate. Not a single other symptom but my flat spot and it's tolerable. I'm curious though if a PC and dyno would get that out of there. As far as smootheness and throttle response though, I don't know how it could get muc better.

Hi HW
do you have an asymetric or a symetric exhaust, ie did you have 2 maps done, one for each cylinder, as would be the case or the asymetric?

Also what was the result? How much power do you reckon the PC111 added?

OK, well. Hmmm ....

Asymetric exhaust. Did point out that it was the asymetric systme but I didn't realsie I shoudl be expecting 2 maps. Not sure, have to do some research on that one.

There was (still is) a dip in the power curve, but the PC3 has smoothed it out a bit. The biggest difference I have noticed now is the throttle response. It's always "ready to go" which it wasn't before (even with the correct ECU for the Termi). The fueliing is now within the limits throughout the range, as with the Termi and std ECU it was very lean which you would expect.

The peak power is just a tad over the 100bhp mark. I was disappointed, but Dynomax reckoned that was good. What surprised me was that I was expecting to see peak power at 8,500 rpm or thereabouts, but it wasn't. It kept going until just over 10,000rpm when the limiter cut in.

The problem with the old ECU was that it went "pop"! Half was down PArk Straight (I know, I spend WAY too much time at Cadwell!) it was like slamming the brakes on and one cylinder cut out. Got back to the paddock and it was spluttering and cutting out. I thought it was the front coil, having had trouble with coils earlier in the year but it turned out to be the ECU. It turned out that Ducati UK didn't have any in stock so I opted to have the standard ECU put back on and then a Power Commander to go with it.

That's the story, and when the replacement ECU arrives I shall have one (unkeyed) if anyone wants one. Or I might just wait until next year and sell the asymetric system and put a different one on.

am I correct in saying you have a 749 not a 749S?

you couldn't mail me a copy of your map could you?

749S, 2003 model. I've not sorted out downloading the map yet, but I will. Drop me a U2U with your email address.

'03 749S has the same engine as all base 749s and 749 Darks. Only the '04 and '05 749S bikes have different motors, and of course the 749R.

Just so I understand...you're running the stock ECU with the PC3 and not the new Termi ECU? I was curious myself just what exactly the new ECU actually does. After installing my system and the ECU it still ran like crap. Had to go get it tuned anyways. Running great now (except for my flat spot) but left me curious as to how it would run if I left the stock ECU in and had it tuned to match the system??? Just what exactly did the Termi ECU actually change...rev limiter, timing, fuel mapping, all of the above??

I only know of 2 things the ECU changed. The fuelling to match the Termi to stop it running too lean, and it also ahd the "managed start" that I am disappointed to have lost. I keep stabbing the button now forgetting that i have to hold it and sort myself, but I'll get used to it again soon.

As far as I know, the Ducati ECU is not programmable in any way hence the "swap" instead of a "chip change".

The guy who did the job said that the PC maps are based on the standard ECU. It interupts the signals sent to the fuel injection and remaps it. Not sure how it is "based on" anything then, but I don't understand all the details.

I am running Termis on the standard ecu. Some Ducati dealers say they run better this way, though as HW says, they do run a bit lean. Hence the PC. At the moment mine runs great without the PC but I prefer to keep the engine healthy and will fit a pc3.

The map that comes with the PC3 for a 749 with termis was rubbish on my bike, it had a big flat spot at 5000rpm ish and also ran really rich at times. Would like to try a few other maps.

Beware ... I was running Termi with stock ECU for a week or so (only on the road), until the prebooked day for the PC3 fitting. Max was very concerned when I fetched the bike as in his opinion it was runing DANGEROUSLY lean. He explained the graphs of before and after and you can see it is way out at higer rpm. He was worried that I had been running on trackdays like that.

He did also say that the response varied a lot with temperature, and thought that with mine running at about 70C or just over most of the time it was running very (too) cool. In the summer heat sat in traffic it did cook up very fast to over 100C but as soonas I started moving again it went down ito the high 70's. These days it is running at 70C.

[Edited on 3-10-2005 by HW]

I think you are over complicating this. The idea od downloading loading someone elses map is brilliant in theory, til you ask, where was their bike at, and where is mine?

If you do upload someone elses map, are you going to then check it on a dyno? In which case, you might of as well had the dyno place do it in the first place.

If not, are you any better off, do you really know how your bike is running?

A valid point Andy, but someone running same year stock 749 with the asymetric Termi is (likely to be) closer to the mark using a map that was done on my bike with same set up than using some other basic map for some other set up. It might not have been tuned to the whole bike, but should hopefully correct any dangerous (to the bike) fuelling errors. After all, that is exactly what you get when you buy the Termi and use the provided ECU isn't it?


[Edited on 3-10-2005 by HW]

From what I understand from my experiences with my mechanic, the stock ECU is programmable, but only to a point. They can change the mixture. BUT, the change applies to the entire rpm range. You can not target certain ranges so any adjustment made, applies all the time. With this in mind, this is why I am so curious about what good the Termi ECU does if you can richen up the factory one???

OK, well the fuel/air misture is adjustable for sure. I have a graph here showing the mixture settings across the rev range with the Termi and stock ECU and it was WAY out. Dangerously lean in fact, Dynomax were very concered that I had maybe been using it for trackdays with it set like that because it would have caused problems. In fact, I hadn't.

SO, programmable to a point, but I do not think you will get it rich enough with the stock ECU for the Termi, without help. Also, the mapping is not programmable and that is what used to be in the form of a replacement chip, but not is a replacemnet ECU. Or so I understand.

Well .... that's been a bumpy ride for sure. I took advantage of the custom map which I ended up getting for £30, but there was a flat spot at around 6k - just about where the next gear comes in when fast(ish) road riding. I was invited to bring it back and it went on the dyno again. There was a big dip in the fuel/air mixture (very rich) so they tuned that out. Trouble was, it affects the power response elsewhere too. Got the messy bit at 6k tuned out, but it was horrid further down which I didn't notice until later. Also, the throttle response was all gone, really flat when you opened it up.

Up shot of it is, I decided to try a standard map from Dynojet. They do one for 2004 749 with asymetric Termi and std of aftermarket filters. (M715-504 if anyone is interested). Preliminary tests this afternoon are promising. Throttle response really good, smooth delivery throughout the range. I'll need to go and live with it for a while, but I am smiling again at the moment.

The standard ECU is only adjustable for the idle CO level. The plan is that this will set the correct mixture right though the rev range and of course it will do exactly that, but only if you are running the bike in standard spec. If you modify the bike then you may very well be able to set the idle CO correctly but it will almost certainly be wrong further up the rev range.

I have an 04 749 with a cored-out stock exhaust. I installed the exhaust and brought it to a local shop known for their expert service (BCM in Laconia, New Hamshire, USA). They optimized the stock computer's air/fuel mixture using the Mathesis Tool. I made 100 hp at the rear wheel and 54 ft/lbs. of torque on a conservative dyno. The bike has no flat spots. They install SIL Moto exhusts all the time. They do not come with a ECU. The stock ECU can be modified to any exhaust.

Makes you wonder why they supply the special ECU for the exhaust. Apparently, if you need to buy one they cost £830! I will be getting a replacement under warranty, and as I will not need to fit it at the moment it will remain "unkeyed". Useful if I decide to sell the exhaust seperate to the bike.

I love the way Termi provides you with the "race air filters. What a crock of ****! They are the same filters that come stock on the 749/999! A marketing ploy to sell worthless stuff!

Are they? "Should" be freer slowing filters to suit the exhaust. If not, then it's being misrepresented.

My shop (BCM) was voted "Best Service in North America" by Ducati. They told me that they were the same as stock. I usually take what they say as law. Take a look at the write-up on Bruce Meyers.


http://www.ducati.com/od/ducatinorth...ml?newsId=8521

Hmm,I thought they were slightly differant.(Bigger??!!)
Ive also been told that the stock filters have to be replaced on a major service while the 'race' items can be washed!:puzzled:

They are definately different!