Mountain bike problem
 

Right then, got an annoying problem with my Specialized S works M4 hardtail.

Its an oldish frame, about 2000 i think so it didnt have disk mounts. I'm running hope disks with their own adapter on the back, hope sport hubs and an XT skewer on the back. The problem is that no matter how tight i do up the skewer the back wheel moves in the drop outs if i put a lot of weight on the pedals. Sometimes it will move enough to touch the chain stay.

Tonight though it's moved just enough to make the disk rub the pads slightly.

Its really starting to annoy me.

Anyone got any ideas?

Should i start saving up for a full suspension bike?

H'mmm, I'm sure that there will be someone along soon who's better qualified than me to comment on mountain bikes , as I'm an old "roadie", but one common problem is adusting the axle so its too close to the end of the dropout. This means that the clamping surface of the skewer is not fully suported, so when you apply torque, it is able to pull past the end of the dropout, so you should always have some of the dropout visible past the skewer (blimey, that didn't make much sense even to me :puzzled: )

If you are a bit of a power house, the answer is to get a frame with vertical dropouts...this means there is no wheel-base adjustment, but you cannot force the spindle to move, as the only way it can go is vertically down.

At the end of the day, Q/R back wheels pulling out of alignment is a fact of life if for the really strong bloke, that's one reason why you don't get Q/Rs on Track bikes...the force that some of those "incredible hulk"sprinters apply is pretty bl00dy scary.

Anyway, if its not the "spindle too close to the end of the dropouts" problem, you'd better wait till someone who knows ehat they're talking about comes along....is it Gizmo that's the mountain bike guru?

Seen it before with hard anodised drop outs and certain QR skewers, the skewer should have knurled bits which grip the paint on frame which an XT should have, if the frame is hard anodised or the drop out design means the skewer clamps to dropout not frame that can cause it. We went to a harder dropout on one model because people complained the hanger bent too easily, resulted in a few riders having same problem, put power on and wheel pulls over. it can also be a difference in dropout dimensions, they are usually about 10mm +.2 but some are bigger than that, occasionally you'll get a Hope hub axle that doesn't seat exactly. I'd be surprised if an S works bike was like that though.

If it wasn't designed for discs and you run that adaptor that might also stop skewer clamping up, not sure though as its a long time since I saw one. AIR there is a different skewer cap on it which recesses into the arm, not sure what the arm fastens against on frame though. might be worth giving Hope a call, their customer service is excellent.

Hi guys, Yep Gizmo, you are right, the XT skewer has a different end on it to suit the hope disk adapter. The end is smooth on the face which touches the dropout. I tried a star washer last night but it didnt help. I'll get in touch with Hope. Its such a long time since i built the bike that i can't remember all the details!

Ian, the slot in the dropout is angled slightly forward which doesnt help matters. I noticed the other week when i looked in the local bike shop that most of the current mountain bikes had vertical slots. The wheel is always as far into the drop out as it can go, there is no need for wheelbase adjustment as such becasue the deraileur will take up the chain slack.

Is there an alternative to running the disk adapter? Is it possible to get a disk mount welded on?

No other way except welding, can't recall what the M4 was made out of, I think I know which company made them , its not the metal matrix version is it?? if not it'll probably be 6066 or a similar exotic 6 series alloy, they spent a bit of time working on 6 series stuff to improve it, if you get tabs welded on frame will need re heat treating, it also needs jigs to align the dropouts exactly and a repaint and decals, not an easy task and we never do it, it would end up more expensive than a new frame.

Is the frame OK with a v brake fitted??

Start saving for a new bike! ;)
Or, if you have a lot of nice bits on that one, get a new frame. I just did that with my bike. I had a Giant MCM980 full susser for 6 years and the wheels started to get a bit bent and then one of the seals went. I decided to use that as a perfect excuse to get a new wheelset and upgrade to discs at the same time.
So off I went and bought a set of disc wheels and disc brakes with integrated shift levers, only to find that there's no way that bike's ever gonna have discs on it because the disc touches the chainstay! Oops!
So there I am with a load of bits I can't use.
Answer, buy a new frame. I decided on a Giant Trance frame and then discovered that the Trance4 bike was only another £100, so I've bought that, swapped all the bits over and now have a nice disc brake full susser and an old one for sale on ebay with nice new wheels and forks! :)
What a polava!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MESE%3AIT&rd=1

P.S. This is not a shameless advert, just thought you might be interested in the story :)

Its a metal matrix American built frame. I didn't think welding a mount on was really an option!

Its a long time ago but yes, i think it was okay with V brakes, but i'd rather not go back to them after having disks.

I've emailed Hope this morning to see if they come up with anything.

My problem is that i'f i'm going down the new bike route then i want it to my spec so it'd have to be an S works full suspension frame (£1200) plus Pace forks (£400) with the spangley new Hope brakes and then all of a sudden I've spent well over £2K!

I don't think she'd ever speak to me again if i did that.

the metal matrix an be welded but it'll be even more complex and might involve a trip back to the maker in the US :( Its not a viable option.

So, if its OK with v brakes it has to be the Hope mount thats letting it slide. I don't think its possible to run a 10mm bolt thro rear axle because of the arm so theres no way of really tightening it up other than a QR, it has to be the arm/frame interface where its moving :( Personally I'd pick up the good old dog and bone and talk to Hope, they like us are a very small company who are manufacturers first and foremost and aren't really set up to handle customers, they expect their dealers to do that. Email is a pain in the ar'e, it takes forever to sort a problem which can be delat with in minutes on the phone. 01282 851200 if I recall correctly

I've got a nice ex demo 2005 Five sat here :) my own personal use bike, XT dual control, discs, Nixon elite forks or Manitou Minutes or RS Pikes depending upon what you prefer :), got my new bike on its way, 06 Five, Fox 36's, DHX air rear shock, mmmmmm .......

You're all speaking a foreign language aren't you? Don't understand a bluddy word of it :frog:

Ok, I've got a nice 05 999R sat here, Brembo Radials with thumb shifter, Ohlins R & T forks, or Marzocchi 50's as a fork choice , Ohlins rear shock with high and low speed damping , its sorta like that, nice trick, very expensive bling parts on a handmade frame, I'm sure any Ducati owner understands that one :)

I have only just seen the post so I'm not sure if you have it sorted.

I had the same thing on my Mount Vision - fitted XTR skewers and the problem solved.

Did you use the Hope disk adapter though? Standard skewers are not long enough so mine has a special end supplied by hope which is causing the problem.

No - no disk adapters.

Why not take it to your local frame builder, have a couple of disk mounts brazed on the frame and a bit of paint? Probably less than £100 in total - job done - problem sorted.

Metal matrix can't be welded easily, I've got no idea whether its even possible. If it is I'd think it'll need reheat treating, the seatstay takes a lot of braking force with discs.

Thats what i'd like to do but its a special aluminium frame that you cannot easily weld things to.

if i remember tomorrow I'll email a contact at the company that made those frames and ask what welding treatment is needed.

Cheers, that would be helpful. Who do you work for then?

Cheers, that would be helpful. Who do you work for then?

Orange Mountain Bikes

Cool :cool:

Thats going to be expensive, welding, jigging, re heat treat ( and you'd need to align it between T4 and T6) then a respray/decals.

its a tough job but someone has to do it :)

Whoah, that's gonna be some major expense! Cheaper to get a new bike!
I got my new Giant now, I'm well chuffed with it, way nicer than my old one :)

[Edited on 4-11-2005 by desmojen]

The slightly distressing factor is that my frame cost £699 but is now worth less than £100 (acording to Ebay) becasue each year Specialized come out with a new, higher spec model at the same price as last years. Best bet is to try and pick up a 2003 or later M4 S works frame.

Thanks for asking anyhow.

Tell me about it! My old Giant cost me £1200, which was half price!
I just got £400 for it, despite having a shed load of new parts on it :mad:

Second hand MTB's are out of date quickly, technology is still advancing rapidly and until it all settles down its high depreciation :( Some stuff does hold its value, my staff bike gets sold on for a reasonable price but it'll be fuly serviced, all worn parts replaced and there'll be some form of warranty plus its only 6 months old.

Just ordered up my 06 XC bike, should get it next week if i'm lucky.

Having said that, all disgruntlement on the loss of cash is more than made up for by the new bike. It is so much better than the old one.
I did get 5 years of good use from the other bike and am able to really appreciate the improvements that have been made. I think if you bought a new bike every year the change would be less obvious and you'd still lose a shed full of cash!
Best case scenario has to be, work for Orange and get one free each year! ;)

My other disgruntlment (fantastic word!!) is my Pace forks. They are five years old but they havent been used that much and they have been greased everytime. I've got some serious slop in the bushes now. Pace want almost £100 to service them including new bushes. I'm relucatant to pay that if they are not going last very long the next time!

one?? problem is they are never mine just test beds for parts

you won't find many bushes that don't get play after a while, Fox, RS, Manitou or marzocchi, first time i tried to explain the brown peat stains on my forks the US guys didnt know what i meant, then they realised the stuff we ride in eats into the metal. Had a Californian friend who i go riding with, she's been into mountain bikes for 15 years and we were out in Phoenix at start of year when she says " did you know SPD pedals dont work in mud??" she was serious, she'd only found this out because CA had a bad winter and she'd had to go out riding when the trails were wet. She works for a fork maker!!