Parc Ferme
 

Currently, the rules state that...

2.1.1 Compliance Control

At the end of the race, the DSC Technical Committee can request that all classified motorcycles are placed in a parc-fermé for a period of at least 30 minutes.

Which is fine as long as nobody wants to lodge a protest. However, I think that Parc Ferme should be compulsary after every race, and then we all know where we stand.

If there is no parc ferme, then I can't see how a protest can be made/upheld as anything could happen between the end of the race and 30 mins later when the committee turn up to look at a bike.

What do the rest of you think?

I think you lot are disappearing up your own jacksies in my humble opinion ......

havnt voted as nothing really suits what i would want.

i think one bike chosed out of the hat should be pulled in after each race and as thourough check as possible made. obviously you cant go taking engines apart. but obvious things. dare i say tyres etc.

massively difficult to take apart an engine and check everything but i guess is some lodges a complaint then it could be done between meeting?

Dibble you could be right there :P

PMSL!!!

I've heard Eurosport are in talks, and Dorna want in on the action too!:lol:

So if I protest the whole field after race 1 and get there engines stripped I could be in with a chance of wining race 2, bit like buying a trophy me thinks :lol:

So if thats the case, why not just remove the rule altogether?

If there is no Parc Ferme, and someone protests me, then it's tough doo doo in my opinion.

Nobody was stripped this year, and there was no parc ferme, and only one protest?

So it's a joke rule in that case.

Like Dickie says, who is gunna strip an engine down between races - and rebuild it again with £25!!

Also, how many bikes are running hi-comp pistons this year - and who is honestly gunna change them back?

What would happen if somone turned up with £500 and protested the top 20?

Are you telling me that anything would actually happen?

idont think anyone is getting up their own arse. its a valid question thta dom has brought up and one that does need to be addressed.

can we not introduce at power limit now seeing as we have split the grid? fairly easy to chuck a bike on a dyno. we know what a standard bike chucks out roughly. add a bit for cans pc's etc and roberts your dads brother. its not fool proof but it stops someone running a hugely superior powered bike.

it quick and very transparent.

still pull one bike in for a cursory check after each race too.

I think I'm racing for fun, and I don't care if other riders cheat with their bike or anything. It's not going to prevent me improving my riding skills, which is my only aim. So I wouldn't bother with a parc ferme...

OK, there's an idea.

A mobile dyno can be hired for £175 + £1 a mile travel (£5-£10 each per rider?)

http://www.viper-racinguk.co.uk/html/dyno_testing.html

I'd be more than happy to chuck £10 in the pot at each round to have my bike dyno'd - along with everyone elses.

Dyno all the bikes at round 1 - and providing the highest isn't 10bhp clear of everyone else - call that the limit. 70bhp??

Then no need for parc ferme, or stripping engines.

I spent £5k on this season, and I'll undoubtably spend the same next year. When you spend £10k on racing and someone beats you by cheating it causes mild irritation. I don't know about anyone else, but DD takes up every spare penny I have (and several £k that I don't), which kind of makes it a valid question.

As for the answer, Dom, it's highly unlikely that anyone will cheat with anything that can be seen from the outside (unless it's unintentional). As you say, engine mods are a bit of a trauma to reveal so it'd be very tricky to monitor. Portable dyno at one of the rounds???

suits me but at every round it adds to the outlay and some people may grizzle. how about at the first one. then 2 other rounds. but not notifying the competitors till the day?

You have the correct attitude Antoine.

Unfortunately, for those of us that aren't doing it just for fun, it becomes an important issue.

I can't afford to go racing, so when I do go, I don't want somebody with 75bhp to take positions away from me.

Also, I know I'm a target for protests - I'm not being paranoid and I'm big enough to accept that some people are waiting for me to get a result, so they can protest me.

So if it's gunna happen to me, it's got to be the same for everyone.

There was no parc ferme at Snetterton, and that Corsa front tye could have been put on right after the race - nobody can prove it wasn't - there was no parc ferme!

So there's nothing to stop people doing other things - of which there are many quick cheats to change back in the comfort of your awning.

If we're having such tight controls in the rules - it must be enforced.

free dyno for everybody? :D

So cheap racing now needs a dyno at every round...

It's easy enough to check your tyres though eh Dom??? :rolleye:

There is no such thing!!


That's been dealt with, and if you need clarification as a non-participant that it doesn't affect, then you can ring Chris Bushell or Rich Llewellin.

Now, lets see which of your posts I can pick apart :flame:

Actually I don't care about all that because I'm not here to win anything. Reading Ali's post made me understand another point of view. And I know that if I would race for a podium, I would be pi55ed of knowing other guys are cheating.
Finally I don't know what to think, so the guy who speaks the louder can have my vote.

Am I useless? :lol:

[Edité le 20-10-2005 par Tonio600]

OK, just my thoughts......

If a bike is 'thought to be' non-conforming to the rules after/during the first race, if there is no time to check it - it could complete the 2nd race 'under protest'

Some bikes can be made up on HP, with careful working of PC's/FIM's/exhaust performance systems etc.
HOWEVER: it is the mid range capabilities of the engine combined with the benefits of the added items mentioned, that will, with a good rider make the bike perform noticably better.
To determine what made it 'tick', would be to strip it right down.

This whole series has been on the whole, self policing this year, but AK & I did mention to Chris & Michael that the bikes really ought to have a technical inspector who ensured the DD bikes conformed to DD rules, not just the New Era scrutineering.

Personally, we would be happy to take our bikes to 'approved' dyno's, but never like to put them on mobile ones, as the margin for error on these can be quite alarming sometimes (says AK)

End of me wittering... back to work now......

C:)

I had a thought that i put forward to the RC ,Have the draw for the free tyres before the races and they are the 2 bikes that are checked.
We have had an offer from a well respected engineer to come to random rounds and check engines,over to you
Butch

Bloody good idea Butch:)

fumbs up from here

:yawn::rolleye:

why .?? is there so much cheating or questions over the eligibity of some bikes.!!

seems OTT to me..........

As my engine came from a breakers being made to take it apart wouldn't be the end of the world as I'm sure I could put it back together better than it was before, with a chance to sort squish, cam timing and valve clearances and even grind the valves in to ensure good seating.
I think random checks should be carried out, I see they CB500 and Hornets had a Parc Ferme at Brands when we were there and when I was at Pembrey they had one for the Streetstock class so it is part of club racing and therefore there is no reason not to have a random one now and again.

I have to say I think this is all getting WAY too serious, there are 5 months before the start of next years racing and you are all getting so het up about it all.
Dyno's are very variable so unless you used the same one all season you could in theory have an engine which is perfectly legal but at one round is seen to be outside of the rules(assuming we use Dom's power cap idea) without being any more powerful.
To use a Parc Ferme is a good idea in principle (as CB500's) but assumes that someone from the club-with appropriate knowledge-is going to make themselves available to be at every round to check bikes-bit of a committment don't you think? I know you guys are going to be at the races but then you are racing. I won't be at every round next year-I have other things in my life, and I don't have the knowledge of 2 valve Ducati's. I think we have hoped that this would be self policing-as it has been this year-if you really think someone is seriously cheating then you protest them and the engine gets stripped. To pick on Dom with the tyre thing as a bit unfair-Rich made an honest mistake, it is also a very easy thing for other racers to spot.
I would love to know where the "with 75bhp" comes from Dom-as far as I understand it you would have a job to get 70bhp from a 620?-unless of course you think someone is secretly running an 800??
To be honest if you are all generating this much heat with 5 months still to go I don't think we will have a series at all by next year-you'll all be in an asylum................nutters the lot of you.:lol:

John

One of the sad things about human nature is that wherever competition is involved people will 'interpret' the rules to their advantage. Sometimes this will result in a mild bending, (perhaps unintentionally) of the rules, sometimes in a cynical and blatant flouting of the rules.

This has applied in EVERY form of motorsport I've EVER competed in however lowly it is in the scheme of things.

People running an 1800cc engine in a 1300cc class! People getting away with running slicks on a tarmac rallying stage when they're supposed to be running control road tyres (scrutineers can't keep up with all the class rules)! Even in twin shock club trials, where the 'prize' at the end of the season is a grotty plastic cup and a ripple of applause from 10 people and a dog, people have been known to install innards from the latest bikes in their forks.

Desmodue has been truly remarkable in it's first season for it's sportsmanship, spirit and general lack of bitchiness (although it's had it's moments). I sincerely hope it can remain like that!

I hope as it grows it doesn't get all bitter and twisted by the competitive streak in all human nature, but it will need to be vigilant.

Well said...and as a non-entrant I feel its starting to look like a bit of a joke from the outside.

You could just buy a standard multistrudle...leave it standard...and use your (thats refers to anyone) talents to whoop the majority of the field...a bit like Mr Neeves?

Nah...that would be too easy:puzzled:

its a valid point if you are racing and putting alot of time and effort in. there is no point in having rules if they cant be checked or upheld.

i think there should be a forum for entrants to discuss racing matters.

There is mate - it's the Desmo Due forum.

It amazes me that people read threads in the Desmo Due forum and complain about them or whatever as it's obvious that anything in this forum is about Desmo Due (sometimes loosely I grant you). To say you only read by Today's Posts is a pathetic excuse as you can see what forum a thread is in before you go into it on Today's Posts.

It especially amazes me from people who should know better who start making comments about people discussing their own race series.

FFS - get a life!

Their own race series? Or the club's race series?

well said tony.............

I'm not sure what you're question/point is Jools?

:puzzled:

:o And there was me thinking this was going to be a bit of a giggle, all turning a bit serious here!
Not meaning to sound rude or take anything away from the DD races, but if you're serious about a racing career, do you really think you should be in a series that is basically a step on from trackdays to introduce novices to a race paddock :puzzled:

Well TP,


their own race series seems to imply that the participants are the only stakeholders and that it doesn't belong to the club anymore?

no dont worry it definitely a giggle, but we still have some 'discussion' on here at times.

it may be introducing novices to racing, ie me, but we allstill want to do our best and take it seriously when we get out there.:D

WTF would you say that...??........comment on the dyno sure .!but then an underhand comment about dom getting disqualified.???? ..wots the point.?

jeeez

The title of the series is:

Ducati Sporting Club Desmo Due Race series

For the avoidance of doubt!

When has any sport not been serious?

I'm sorry to crush any thoughts you had of it just being a bit of fun, but people won't let you pass with a friendly wave.

This is racing and it matters to everyone where we finish - no matter what anyone says.

[nobody will stuff you into the armco though - its not that serious]

To some, this thread may seem pathetic or ridiculous, but they are people to whom it doesn't concern anyway.

The 583 class (which I believe you're doing?) is more likely to be more laid back - if that's possible. Also any cheating in 583 will be more easy to spot as all the bikes will make around the same bhp.

In the 620 class, some will have 60bhp and some nearer 70bhp, and it's easy to get well over 70bhp if you wanted, and why not 'bend' the rules a bit too if no-one is checking?

The point I'm trying to make is, that as no engines were checked this year, and no parc ferme was used - whats the point in having such tight rules if they're not enforced properly?

May as well say that as long as the engine displaces 583 or 618cc - which is very easily checked - then you can do anything else you like.

You'll soon reach a limit on bhp, and then everyone can go that route if they wish - or do something else!!

[Edited on 20-10-2005 by domski]

Absolutely, but there seems to be a little bit of paranoia regarding cheating here! If anyone really believes there is a cheat in our midst then get something done about it. I don't get the whole parc ferme thing, never heard it used other than for the mini-twins who all get dynoed.

I think a parc ferme for a club series is a complete waste of time ... unless it is suspected that one of the front runners (top 6 ?) are running some 'loophole' in the regs that they havnt discussed with the technical committee.
As for the rest of us ... is there some prize money up for grabs that I havnt heard of ?
If not, anyone running an 'illegal' bike is only cheating themselves.