learning to ride fast, but safely
 

This might be a daft question.. but here goes...

I've had my ST2 for a year now.. thanks to you guys for your knowledge and encouragement before buying it. I love it and have done about 3500 miles on her over that year.

However.. I still consider myself to be a novice rider and still don't have the confidence to lean the bike too much or taking corners at speed. The bike is plenty capable, its my riding that worries me. It is probably just a confidence thing as I've not had any incidents yet. In a straight line I've had it up to 120mph (on an empty road!), but come to a corner and I'm much more sedate.

Do you know of anywhere (or anyone!) that can teach me how to ride this amazing bike properly? I'm not thinking of taking her to some kind of track day and be intimidated by more experienced riders, but somewhere where I can be taught how to ride confidently at speed, but safely within the limits of the bike and myself.

I do admire other riders who seem to lean the bikes into fast corners and talk with joy of riding twisty country roads. I'd like to do that too...

Any help or ideas??

although it is based on track, i would recomend california superbike school. they specifically teach cornering and use a structured approach that i think would be ideal. as it is a school and not a track day they have strict rules about passing and spilt people into different groups depending on ability.

[Edited on 28-10-2005 by electricsheep]

do a track day in the novice group then its the best place to practice
err try a dsc trackday ?

If you're happy to learn for yourself then I think a trackday is the way to go. You definately won't be intimidated in the novice group and it's great for cornering cos you get to do a series of different types of bends over and over again.

If you want instruction for the road by a very experienced rider then try a Bikesafe course. If you don't know what this is about, it's run by police riders in their spare time, they teach you the best route through a turn and also to carry some decent 'progress' through the bends. Have a looky here: http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/

come out with the bhc massive
worked for me
st2 an all, quickest bike ducati ever made

He's right you know!;):D

What is the bhc? I don't want to kill myself, but I do want to learn to ride! The Police course sounds good, but won't that trying to discourage me to ride quickly round corners??

I think Ideally I am looking for somewhere where someone can show me what to do and progressively take me up on my confidence. I've never done a track day.. but my impression is that they are a bit of a free for all. Isn't that the case then? I don't want to be a d*ck and take a corner wrong and take out myself and other people!

Oh.. the ST2 is flipping quick. I had a new chain and sprockets fitted at the last service. I can't remember which way round, but the sprockets are slightly smaller/bigger on the front and back.. handling and acceleration is much improved. It goes like a rocket!

I looked at the bikesafe web site. The Kent Police courses are all done now for the year so I sent the form in to notify me of the 2006 dates. Thanks for the link.

BHC: Bedfordshire/Herts & Cambs region

Come out with the Surrey bunch too sometime:)

trackdays? - DSC ones are really good - lots of consideration for others, and also instructors you can 'book' for guidance whilst on track

You might get a lot from some 1-2-1 support from one of the more experienced locals (to you) on the board.

Someone to go out and take you through a few corners, (maybe even take you as a pillion) and show you how to relax, look ahead, understand he concepts of bend and hazard recognition, vanishing point etc. , countersteering, but above all relaxed riding.

Rgds Rob

p.s. did I mention relaxing....

Try Rapid training (again run by a good bunch)...

They will definitely give you the confidence/awareness you need.

Ideal option is the 2 pupils to 1 trainer (all on intercom) - this gives you a chance to step back during the day. With this, you will get your pace up in no time at all :devil:

Regards
Les

I agree, the ST2 is one of Ducati's most underated bikes, it's low down grunt and it's ability to get serious drive out of corners make it great fun. Those of us that have got them will know that it's a great feeling having riders of more serious kit scratching their head wondering why we're able to keep up with them, and Dunks, you will also find that if it's properly set up it's a hell of a good handling bike.

I would start to learn how to ride fast quite slowly.

First, make sure that your bike is in good condition, that your tyres are good and at the right pressures, that your suspension is set up properly (ST's respond well to rasing the rear ride height a little bit - it helps them turn quicker). If you make sure the bike is in good nick, you won't be fighting the bike to learn new stuff - trying to learn how to ride smooth lines through corners with a squared off tyre making the bike wander about, for example, is not the most effective way to learn.

Then, do one thing at a time until you feel comfortable. I would start with getting in the right road position on the entrance to a bend. When I felt comfortable with that, I would move on to visual skills. You go where you look, so as people have said start looking at the apex, the vanishing points of a bend and learning to look through a bend at your exit point, try and look further up the road and not 10 feet in front of your wheel. Look wide as well, don't just use tunnel vision, even if you are concentrating on looking at where you're going try and use your peripheral vision it helps stop you fixating on a target and slows things down.

Then concentrate on getting your entry speed right. That's not about rushing up to a corner, blamming the brakes on and tipping the bike in, it's about making sure that you arrive at a bend so that all your braking is finished and you're in the right gear just before you turn in. Once you've turned the bike you should be able to roll the throttle on as you head for the apex and really wind the throttle open as you start to get the bike upright again on the exit - Slow in, fast out.

If you feel comfortable with all this, you can move on to countersteering. Everybody does that naturally, but doing it conciously can help you speed up the way the bike turns, then you might try moving one of your bum cheeks off the bike towards the inside of the turn, getting your body weight progressively lower until you're comfortable with hanging off the bike and so it goes...

The point about this is not to force anything, just do one thing at a time and work on it so that it becomes second nature. When you can do one thing unconciously, without even thinking about it, move on to the next thing and work on that. Don't EVER force yourself to go faster than you feel comfortable. You'll find that if you work on all this stuff so that you can do it all unconsciously, with confidence and be totally relaxed about it, you'll end up being fast without having to force it.

So....there's all the bullshit...there's a catch. This stuff takes most of us a lifetime to learn and that for me is the essence of riding a motorcycle, it is always a challenge, you never stop learning or improving. For me, every corner is another opportunity to get it absolutely perfect. It's a bit like being a surfer trying to catch a perfect wave, it doesn't happen very often but when it does it's one of the most exhillerating experiences on earth.

Oh yes, and get out with some friendly DSC types for some 1-1 tuition...and relax

bloody hell jools
i'm going to try some of that

:lol:

VERY good advice from Jools. Everybody has a different '' happy '' speed where they feel totally in control. For me now it's usually 60mph on an A road. On a good day it may be 70 plus , but over 80 and it all starts to happen a bit too quick for my liking. ( It's called old age - when I was younger 100+ in a 30 seemed safe - Oh me gawd did I really do that - Yes and got the ban to prove it! )

Before you do any training though, try and get hold of a copy of Motorcycle Road Craft, The police riders manual, and read it from cover to cover. It's an HMSO publication and the ISBN number on mine is 0-11-340149-3. I think it's less than a tenner, or your local library may have a copy.

This will explain the basics of cornering for you, and if you go on any training scheme it will give you an idea of what to expect.

The main thing is to enjoy your riding - which is what you are doing - and come home in one piece after every ride!

Phil ( Otherwise known as mother hen )

:D

Or

contact your local IAM who are experienced riders who want to pass on their skill and knowledge to help you enjoy riding whilst being safe. I am doing the course we ride out once a week stop many times for briefings get a coffee halfway and do about 80 miles each session. When you join they send you a copy of the highway code and the advanced bike book which is similar to the Roadcraft book Philthy mentioned. I have had four sessions and its transformed my riding skills (IMHO) I would have described my style before as similar to yours, flat out down the straight and embarrasingly slow around the bends.

www.iam.org.uk

The cost has been £85 and each week I contribute £5 towards the observers petrol.

The bikesafe course was fully booked when I enquired and someone suggested I try IAM and I am very pleased that i did. I do not know when I will be ready for the test but at present I am just happy to be learning and improving. I will be happy to answer any questions you might have, if I am able.

I agree with YMFB, for £85 the IAM course is excellent value and you will get as much tuition as you need.

It also gives you a good excuse to get out and get some miles in when other things are putting pressure on your time, DIY etc.

Also try a track day with Rapid.

Check out www.rapidtraining.co.uk

I'm only a trainee IAM "Observer" but I'm happy to talk through the benefits of "advanced" training and how it will build your confidence in your abilities. Even including the law-abiding aspects it is not about making you ride slowly. Quite the opposite, you learn how to "make good progress, safely". See you at the next Sussex or Surrey meet? :biaggi:

The Bikesafe course is very good for what it is.

Although it is run by the police, they are cool with "enthusiastic" riding as long as you don't take the pi$$. You do a couple of runs in a small group with an instructor who gives you advice after.

It's not so much about going around corners quickly though. As many others will tell you, the CSS days are probably the best for that.

Yep, has to be IAM.

Track riding is good for learning machine control, but does not help with reading the road, or being aware of potential hazards.

Bikesafe is a great way of getting an insight into what advanced riding is all about. You will get a bit of classroom talk, and then an observed run with feedback, so at the very least you will get some initial feedback to be going on with, as well as have any glaring safety issues pointed out.
Be honest about your riding ability too, as you will probably be paired with another rider for the observed run.

The police consider bikesafe as an introduction to advanced training, rather than instead of. Note that Bikesafe is actually ran by the police but observers are supplied by IAM in Surrey...

I personally did the bikesafe day from Hendon and I'd highly recommend it.
(I was already an advanced rider, and an IAM observer, but wanted to do it so I could provide first hand knowledge should someone ask me about it, as well as get an unbiased assesment of my riding by someone who did not know me ).

If you feel you want a bit more than one day, then the IAM 85 quid deal is a steal. 'Skills for life' as they call it will give you as many observed runs as it takes to get you through your advanced test. I think you also get a book on advanced riding. I say I think as I also brought roadcraft and 'not the blue book', so can't remember which you get included in the price. The roadcraft book is the basis for police training, and 'not the blue book' is written by a police instructor with extra tips and subtleties to add that extra finess.

Rapid training are excelent too, but you may not get as much value for money from them at present. I'd suggest waiting until you feel more confident, and then have a day with them.

I belong to http://www.wvam.org.uk/, who are a 30 minute trip around the M25 from you.
As the web site says, they hold their observed rides the first sunday of every month, and you need to be there for 10am.
They also do lots of social runs. For example, vvery Sunday there is a meet & go at box hill for WVAM members.

I have also done a rapid training corse, Cali superbikes, and euro superbikes, but Imo, IAM is the best bet for you to based on what you've said of your ability.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
John.

I'd like to do IAM too, I think it's a great idea, and it sound excellent value for money, I have a couple of guys I know who's done it, and their lines are impressive and smooth. Are you training then? what area you train? I'm in Brighton

Hey Psy - looks like you'll be able to set up a few sessions with DSC'ers. I'm up for it if you want to do that.

Hey, I just hit 500 posts !!!!!

You should have been looking where you were going then you would have avoided them! :P



Philip, I'm in the Havant/Chichester area, come along to the next Sussex DSC meet and we can have a chat ;)

I just got a call today from the local Kent Police bikesafe people who run it out of The Warren (West Wickham area). They had a space available for this coming Sunday so I shall do that.

Thanks for the tips guys. I'll do this and then look into the IAM.

Jools.. I read your tips a few times now. Thanks very much for taking the time to write that down.

cheers,

Dunks

I'd recommend IAM too, eh Paul?

:P:P:P:lol::lol:

Sure do gorgeous ;)

I did the Bike Safe course yesterday. Great fun and I learned a lot. It was very refreshing to talk to the Police riders and hear their views on the speed limits. To be honest, we rarely rode at the speed limit all day. That wasn't to say we rode recklessly, just went at an appropriate speed for the conditions. The Police rider with me took us for a hugh speed blast round a couple of junctions of the M25. It was superb fun.

Thanks for the suggestion guys. It was really good and I feel I learned a lot about road positioning and cornering, which is exactly why I went.

I shall look for a suitable track day course next year.

Now contact your local IAM group while things are quiet over the winter months. That way they can assign you an observer while things are quiet.