Single or Twin discs
 

For a stock 600 Monster?

On one hand I definitely think one disc can stop the 50ish bhp of the small Monster, but on the other hand Skids and Doms stories are frightening me...

I never found a single disc on a 600M lacking except when pushing along two-up.

Just been looking at the 2005 Championship table and as far as I know only one person in the top ten was running a single disc. Obviously the other nine had the option to change to a single disc set up but decided against doing so. Maybe they prefered having a twin disc setup and there also remains the possibility that the single disc rider may have benifitted from having a twin disc conversion rather than loosing out through having one.
If your forklegs have the lugs then fitting a second disc isn't that exspensive, if the lugs aren't there then it may become a cost issue.
After all you can always revert back to single disc if you find a extra disc causes you problems

Dave was the only top 10 rider that i know of that was running a single disc.
We compares his single to (77) twin and the difference is remarkable ,the twins had slight (normal) blueing whereas the single was completely blue so if nothing else Dave must have been suffering heat fade.
If nothing else i think its a confidence thing ,twins must give you more ultimate stopping power ,so psycologiclly you must be better off (unless your no 8, Geoff never seemsd to use ANY brake!)
Butch

Although my single disc setup never gave any cause for concern it was possibly more work to maintain. I had to bleed it every couple of meets and ended up using Brembo LCF (low compressability fluid) as it gave the best bite. If you go to the race without any air in your system, and with straight discs, I can't see you having any problem.

Personally, I outbraked many twin disc setups without ever feeling I lacked any outright braking power. When I lost out to someone on the brakes it was always my bottle that gave out, not the brakes. And as Butch says, Geoff didn't use a great deal of brake!

Cheers Skid, will think about that.

Antoine, I'm converting my SS to twin disc to get the same feel as the monster - I found the std single disc setup was definitely different in feel, although as Ali says, the single disc seemed to stop the bike ok piling into a corner, I never felt happy with it.

The third racer overall (and first racer on non-injected bike) was running a single disc the whole season, so it makes me think...

Hmmm ... was it the std disc and m/c, or a better one ?
I just realised the single setup on my tt2 feels much better, but thats got a better m/c (and its a lot lighter bike :D )

I think it was the standard disc and m/c, only the line and the pads have been changed.

Correct, standard disc, caliper, master cylinder, and he outbraked me a number of times as well as many a twin disc setup.

I think the real answer here is; if you think that a twin disc setup will give you more confidence then gp with that. Look back on your crashes this year and ask yourself how many were because you were too heavy on the brakes. If none then you should keep a twin disc setup. If some then maybe a single disc with a decent master cyl (for better feel) would be a better setup.

Cheers,

Ali

I ran a single disc with std master cylinder all year.........never had a single braking issue caused by over heating or lack of braking power...... AND i finished 3rd overall..........................nurdy nur nur

oh and i did have the fork leg for a second disc...just never felt like i needed it...............

as Ali said go with what you feel confident with other than what " others " say is best.......

[Edited on 14-11-2005 by fil2]

Ah but Phil if DLS riders hadn't suffered problems then there would probably have been 3 twin Disc bikes ahead of you, yes all 620s but how do you know a twin disc setup may not have bagged a few extra points.

But if your happy to stick with it then fair enough, if I carried your sort of corner speed or had a bit of extra power it would have been less of a issue for me, but as I was constantly battling bigger more powerful bikes I found I had to use my brakes a fair bit to try and get past of keep with 675s and 620s on my 583

Being fast is one thing but a championship is made up of more than one thing.
Plenty of what ifs during a year but the results stand because the top 3 actually did it regardless :)

I'm with Skids on this point. ( except the getting past 675's ;) )
Was single at beginning of year then went to twin. Like mine as it is now, better than my single was before on the track.

I'll do some pre-season tests, but I would definitely think than there is no need of 2 discs on the 600 Monster just because it was first sold with only one disc. The later add of a second disc may be another trick to look like a 900???

+1

After my years in racing I know all about what ifs and Phils 3rd place Championship trophy was well deserved. But with Mike and Clint not being able to make the final round at Cadwell due to DSL closing I was actually expecting Phil to get a podium finish in at least one of the races and I'm not sure why he didn't. Was it that there were seven faster riders out there, or was it that there were seven faster bikes out there or maybe it was because there were seven bikes out there with better brakes.

Im quite confident in the fact that if i had twin dics it would have made no difference to the race positions i attained.....

Im well aware Kev that my 3rd overall was dude to Mike not turning up.......but if i had not been consistant all year then i would not have been in the position to gain 3rd..NO-OTHER rider could of taken 3rd unless by a miracle...

I never got a podium cos the top 3 were faster riders on far superior bikes not cos i had single disc...more like a legal bike with 51.2 bhp std front fork internals std exhast std rear shock std brakes etc etc.....i dont blame the tools cos there are faster riders than me by far in the DD..i just did what i could with what i had...............and a twin disc would amade a jot of difference to my overall placings......

+1

+1

Ok I leave that thread, you're all right :lol:

I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish, you can only race who is there. Saying if x y and z were there the finishes would be different is nonsense. Maybe Phil knew exactly how many points he needed and rode appropriately at Cadwell ?

The only way better brakes would help is if Phil was pulling on his and just couldn't stop any more so was having to brake early to compensate, I doubt this was happening tho'

:lol: That's the most laughable theory I've heard for ages!

As Phil & I have discussed many times over, many of those racing 620s seemed to only really take advantage of their extra power towards the mid-end of the season. It was getting harder and harder to keep up (something evidenced by the end of my engine at Brands), and the possibility of potentially doing some serious damage to yourself for a fourth place was enough to want to stay sensible.

Remember Phil is one of the only top riders not to come off all season (by his own fault), proof enough to me that he probably had a good 5% left, both on the brakes and around the corners. If he'd had a 620 with a single disc I'm sure he'd have spent the whole season sitting on Geoffs rear wheel, with me right behind him.....sometimes..... :ninja:

Cheers,

Ali

Exactly, go with whats right for you,
I tried both and know which I am happier with, all I was trying to do was pass on my experience of using both setups and including the advice of a friend who is a far better racer than I am to help answer your original question.

Be interesting to see what your bike finishes next season with or for that matter starts the first meeting with.

I played the long game all season Tony...i had my overall DD goals and i Acheived them...........

I certainly was not braking early to compensate for lack of braking power.........

U all use twin discs..............im sticking with my single......;)..until i get passed on the brakes that is :devil:

How about triple discs........;) ;)

i got carbon discs for next year............with mono-block callipers...................;)..they are legal if you read the rules right..........................

TBH I rarely use the front brake, I find the back is more than good enough with the front used in emergencies only :)

My bike's problem won't be my brakes :D

What brakes :puzzled:

You can save a whole heap of weight doing away with brakes completely.
Makes you faster into the twisties too.:P

:D




[Edited on 15-11-2005 by ericthered40]

It would seem weight and suspension response (difference in unsprung weight) would be the other factors to consider, especially if you are not having a problem with braking or being outbraked.