Is the Ducati brand in decline?..........Discuss
 

IMHO, since the American takeover and extreme over exposure/availability ......... most definitely yes.

I don't think so. There will always be lovers of Ducatis, they're just in a small "slump". It happened right before the 916 came out too. They'll recover.

I don't think the Brand is in decline, they are represented in all major race championships such as Moto GP, WSB, BSB and AMA and get major TV coverage from all by having bikes and riders that run at the front of the field which must help sales of Ducati merchandise even if its not really doing as much for the bike sales.

Ducati is not dominant in any world series right now, and the company would appear to be pinning its hopes on the desmosedici which is a bike which is a long way from the company's bike heritage.
I think a lot of traditional buyers are now looking for something a bit leftfield and not nearly so common.

Hard time, possibly.

Decline, no.

The motorcycle market as a whole is having a bit of a tough time, not just Ducati, but admittedly the Italians do have a knack of this type of drama.

Interesting, how do you judge a "brand in decline"??

Ducati as a brand can no longer command the same brand premium they once di but thats because of market forces and the economy. Their racing profile is lower than the glory days of Foggy/916 mid nineties but given that Vale dominates the mainstream press its hard to alter that.

As brand its got all the things you look for brand loyalty, solid customer base, aspiration-al and the products have innovative design and are unique.

Its recent co-branding products with other high image brands - Oakley, Burton, Briel suggest that the corporate marketing world still sees value in Ducati.

They haven't started sub licensing to other companies so still retain complete control of the IPR.

My opinion, for what its worth and using the above criteria is that its not in decline :)

may be it is in decline in Far North Queensland...
..are you racing bikes there??:D:D

Not sure if the "brand " is in decline on worldwide basis,the accountants will know the answer but its declined to the point of no return in my house.Never again will I spend my hard earned on a new Ducati.Customer service from my nearest dealer is laughable,in 2years they have never returned a phone call,"call you when bikes ready","call you when the part arrives" yeah right,had a part on order now for 4 months,might have arrived,gave up after 6 weeks and sourced the part from an independant.Total failure to care that a buisness cannot operate without customers.The number of Ducati specialists in operation shows the condition of the official dealer network,not only because they are better value,they more often do a better job!.Having sold a 748 this year,I bought a Suzuki GSXR 600 its been a revelation,a good bike,supplied by a dealer that believes in customer service,and parts availability.Hopefully it wont be plauged by substandard parts(like rockers)that will cost me a fortune.Thats my 2p,s worth,and a reflection of my experience,Im sure theres dealers out there doing great work.The 888 still sits in my garage,its a beautiful sight,but good looks only count for so much!

Which dealer are you talking about? Can you not give them some "feedback"??

Otto Otto Otto
It is very difficult for anyone outside of the Company to accurately analyse their current status re "decline of the Brand", however one can determine from the statistical data out there in the public domain how the buying public are spending their cash on new bikes.

In most markets worldwide Ducati are not selling as many new bikes as they have previously (and there are many reasons for this), so the brand is certainly "out-of-favour" at the moment compared to its past performance.

The decline in the size of the global market is too much of a generalisation, individual markets are growing in size, for example the fastest growing market in Europe is currently Spain, however Ducati's models there are not what the majority of the Spanish buyers want. What's important to evaluate is Ducati's size of any given market - is it performing or underperforming.

There is also evidence that what has been refered to as the "core ducatista" are shrinking, and this maybe explained by the fact that in the '90's many folks switched into Ducati from other brands, but their experience of the Customer Support did not match or exceed their Customer Service experiences of their previous Brand. In short - they came - tasted - and left.

Ducati certainly need to up their game (as I have previously posted at DSC) and the knowledge that TI want to off-load their 30% holding is certainly hindering investment in products and services.

Can the Brand regain is lustre - absolutely - but it needs a) fresh capital and b) new faces to do that (and not neccessarily from the same source) - the current crew have rested on their laurels and not optimised the strong brand sentiment that existed throughout the 90's. Without those two fundamental criteria, then I would say the Brand is in danger of death by slow suffocation - the first sign of that would be Asian ownership!

Athelstan,

That is probably one of the most informative and spot on posts i think i have ever seen on this forum, for my 2p worth i think you are exactly on the money. You are not related to Shazamm are you (Another member who's posts are out of this world!)

I will add that if Ducati believe that the Desmosedici will save the brand they are in for a shock. The delivery date has already slipped, it will only be a matter of time before the price hike comes and people will withdraw their support.

Let's be honest here those that are looking at the Desmosedici are the ones with cash and previous 999r owners, how ****ed off must they be feeling now that the 999s 2005 model was launched with more BHP, slashing the value off their 999r's. That is no way to treat your most loyal customers.

What are they going to do with the Desmo. Launch it at £35,000 and then a few years later bring out a copy cat model for half the price because they need the cash????

Watch this space, i would not put it past them!!

I was at the factory a year ago and a chap there advised that Ducati felt by end of 2006 they would make more out of merchendise than bike sales.

So what would be the impact of that then? Chav's pushing prams wearing Ducati t-shirts, ball caps etc.

Would that then be a brand in decline? To some maybe but Ducati need to make a profit soon.

Come on guys, a Ducati is a Ducati.. the brand still works...
most of us (someone probably not!) knows what they are doing buying a duke.. joy and sometimes troubles.
Do you want a commuting bike to go up and down the M4 on every kind of weather? Please do not buy a 999...

I agree with the swiss collegue here..but we are talking of a firm in Bologna that faces japanese huge diversified corporations

it may be in decline... BUT..it is still...
...the only alternative to a jap bike
..not a 4 cylinder
..made in Italy (:D)
...doesn't change graphics and model every 6 months

and there are a lot of other positive sides that Ducati owners can appreciate...

and..IT IS NOT true that all the Ducati services shops (or the service in general .) are bad and are "not calling back" ..it may be less organized service chain than japs, but eventually it works. If not, means that the shop owner, no matter the brand he sell, should change job..

So, recession? yes - it is a general one..
Less bike sold? - yes..

Brand decline? I don't think so.. may be when Ducati will start to do generators like Honda or jetskis like yamaha... yes

[Edited on 14-12-2005 by Brogins]

In decline, hmm, maybe not. Confused, definitely.

Just my view.

Brand loyalty maybe a good thing,but if you leave your head in the sand for long enough YOU will be responsible for the demise of the brand you held so dear in the first place.
GSXR 1000,R1,ZX10 not exactly commuting bikes,but you can ride them all year round,up and down the M4 and do trackdays,its 2005 technology allows this.
Nobody said ALL Ducati Service shops are the same,the reference was made to the one from personal experience.
Ducati make the best looking(except 999),evocative sounding motorcycles around,but its not enough if its not backed by top class service and parts availability.
The 999R/S marketing plan was a mess,the rocker problems lasted too long.You can only rest on your laurels for so long.

Chaps if I may:
Scotty B:
No not related to Shazaam (apart from owning a Ducati) but I do take my hat off to him and his technical posts - a domain that I do not occupy. I can check the basics and polish the ST4s, but that's as far as it goes - the rest I leave to and pay the experts.

Desmo 748
Making more money out of merchandising is what every brand owner in world wishes they could do but few in the motorcycle world do - an exception is Harley. Many in the US aspire to own a HD but know they never will, so they settle for a duvet cover instead; outside of the US this strong sense of "belonging" dwindles down to vitually no merchandising sales in some countries beyond what you can fit onto your riding clothes - duvet covers don't get a look-in. From small beginnings Triumph have turned merchandising into a profit centre, but it lags way behind new sales and parts n accessories.

Brogins
Triumph are also a small European manufacturer facing huge diversified Sino industrial conglomorates, and remember that Triumph started from a worse position than Ducati has ever found themselves in. It was a dead with no manufacturing facilities and a brand image that was 98% negative. From that postion Mr Bloor built a new company funded with not one penny of anybody else's money, launched year on year new products and entered new markets globally, which in some cases exceed Ducati's current market share (and will probaly overhaul them if current progress is maintained). So what we see is proof that European manufacturing and Brands can and do succeed and profit.

Furthermore, they do so not on I quote "customer service that eventually works", but by delivering through a well trained and managed Dealer Network. (Yes it does go wrong sometimes, but no one, not even the Japanese are perfect).

Rob B
Confused - in a manner of speaking you've hit the nail squarely on the head. Confusion is something a manufacturer of any product simply cannot allow to creep in to the minds of the buying public. A confused audience is on that walks away and buys elsewhere.

[Edited on 14-12-2005 by Athelstan]

I think that you will find that Ducati won BSB then? A series that had the works team from Honda/Michelin in it. So perhaps the statement that they are nowhere in racing is not quite true. They are in Moto GP ahead of 2 Japanese factories.

The brand is not in decline, the brand perhaps has lost a bit of bike direction, a brand that perhaps has been too focused on peripheral items, but in a declining market such as bike sales it could have been the smartest move to have put their eggs in another basket.

My view is that the biggest threat to the brand is BMW. Shock! They have an extremely well sorted dealer network, they have a range of bikes using common engines (giving profit) , they have brand loyalty, they just do not have the wow factor, or the cool factor, - but at some stage they are going to get that right probably when they enter MotoGP.

thats wright ian,the 999 series has won wsb in 03,04, its first years on the grid ! winner of bsb 05, the gp bike is the fastest bike in gp & with race wins under its belt & with two of the best riders on it for next year. its the brand to be on, were on the up mate.my glass is half full.

Brand? Brand comes into marketing. If you market something then it becomes popular, over exposure. Ducati want to sell bikes to make money, Ducati wants to win races to get advertising revenue, sell everything from Ducati bikini's to spare parts. Its a business at the end of the day. Is it in decline??? Only the accountants and Chief Execs will tell you. Take from the "brand" what you want want. Im still happy.

BMW - An example to any manufacturer,excellent service creates brand loyalty.They had problems with the Nikasil coating(?spelling) in car engines but it was dealt with openly,engines replaced in or out of warranty period.Parts for current model cars within 48hrs they reckon.A factory race team will make them cool!
Sandbar does a coolish looking bike,Boxer Cup type deal.
Maybe they should do a deal with Ducati,one shows how to style a bike,the other shows how to increase profit.

Ducati are spending large sums of money on racing, money that has to come back from somewhere, so if bike sales stall, it causes a problem.
in decline, who knows, I'd say no.
looking for a return on all that money invested in racing, yes.
If Ducati won Moto GP next year, how much for the race rep then???

And these donkeys are doing it within the same rules as the opposition! Unlike the "saviour" bike that had 25% more rules advantage!

No they're not - only in AMA are the rules reasonably close. In WSB the Ducati's are allowed a lot more tuning of the engine than the IL4's and a few other things so it's not the level playing field you think it is. Otherwise the IL4's really would stomp the twins.

Is the Ducati brand in decline?


Simple answer is YES!!

When you are at the top , where Ducati have been for a long time, there is only one place to go and thats DOWN.

Not saying its all over, far from it, but you can only stay on top for so long, then its someone else`s turn.

Thats just life.

Thers no replacement for displacement!:D

Don't confuse brand image with financial success.

Financially Ducati may not be doing so well bu the Brand image is still very good.

Ducati's neighbour ferrari make a huge amount of revenue from licensing, £400million this/last year I seem to recall seeing somewhere.

Ducati are growing this area but they have to be carefull.

Ducati needs racing sucess cos everyone loves awinning brand.

Ray.

what are Ducati allowed to do that the Jap's cant in SBK please :puzzled:

I know in AMA bikes are not alowed to run front wheel speed sensors.


You need a front wheel sensor for traction control, hence they can't run the same engine management system that they use in WSB.

Well after years of the older 4 vlv bikes I've become a real fan of the 2vlvers. Love em! There's so much scope for making excellent roadgoing sports bikes out of them for little outlay. The latest 4vlv bikes do nothing for me with perhaps the exception of the 749R. As I've said before, the new bikes don't seem to be special and that is something that really attracted me to the bikes in 95 (748SP) when I got into them.

That seems to have been Ducati's product evolution process over the last ten years. I can't see a problem with it.

Have you ever taken a look at the Japanese products and how they depreciate when a "newer" model arrives

Nice one mate.....

A bit of positive thinking

Well said old chap.

I think some of the Ducati products are underated. I brought a 749S because it represented the best value for money Ducati superbike available. I haven't had any problems with the bike. Its a bloody dream to work on and well though out.

Most of the guys I ride with have 1000cc L4's and struggle to keep up. Probably because I regularly thrash the ass off it. I'm often told that it's bloody quick for a small vee twin and that's simply because the product works well out of the crate.

Im not sure Ducatis problems are all in their Hands,theres other problems looming up that are greater than brand image etc.
although I dont like the look of the 749/999 if you look at the new jap bikes they are using design clues from these bikes minimilist rears etc so the look will slowly be fashionable.
I think their problems lie in the age group of their customers and the impending restrictions on new motorcyclists,most of Ducatis owners have tasted or own jap bikes as well and can afford the unrealistic labour and servicing times.
new riders are not going to fork out for bikes that are in general 50% cheaper than the equivalent Ducati.
take the GSXR 600/R6 goodtrack bikes excellent road bikes plenty about cheap replacment parts if you drop it on track days, long service intervals and plenty of dealers local to most.
Its a throw away scociety and most young riders want a cheap performance bike and will rather spend £3000 on a fairly new bike than £4500 on a 4 year old Ducati with all its inherant servicing costs.
the crunch is I bought a Ducati this time because I could'nt afford one 20 years ago and I dont think Ducati can wait this long this time round.
As for customer service I dont think Ducati Main Dealers will ever match BMW.
Would a Ducati dealer match this when I bought my BCR,a test bike for the day which I put 300 miles on a years warranty/rescue, spares within 2 days 10 dealers in the top 20 RIDE survey, £220.00 for 6000 mile service including RT1200 fully blinged for the day.
I dont think the 'Brand' is in decline but their sales definately will be.
ian

I'll tell you what else I reckon Ducati's problem is...they build bikes that are just far too 'good' and 'evocative'...let me explain.
With UJM's they're out of date after a year, and DEFINATELY old hat after two. Trouble is, Ducati build bikes that a different sort of owner buys, loves, cherishes, and keeps. And keeps. And keeps. Then after 5+ years of ownership spends a load more cash on doing it up a bit after it's got a little tatty. And then after 10 years (Like my 888) feels like it's an absolute classic and part of 'the family.' Bang goes people rushing to update to the latest model each year or two! If Ducati's were a bit crapper and were superceded by a considerable margin every two years then their turnover of new buyers would probably be more. They're just too 'soulful' and nice to own, for their own good!