749s power commander
 

has anybody fitted a power commander to a bog standard 749s if so did it make any difference, if not why not?


mark

Ive got one on my 999r. I would say it would make a difference even with a std Exhaust, and dont forge5t it could be changed as or when you mod the bike.

I recon the std fuelling on a ducati even the later series stuff is quite crude........... the Pc would look to smooth this!

I have a '05 749s and just installed one. Matter of fact, I just droped mine off at the shop to get a custom map made. Got a local guy in town with a Dyno Jet dyno. Mine has a full system but I'm sure results are results. I'll definately fill you in on mine when I get the bike back.

I would say that if youre trundling about in it doing the usual day to day stuff then its not going to make a big difference. If youre doing trackdays then maybe it is. Ive just had my full termis fitted and Im not going to bother with it any more. Its something i did consider. Seems a waste of money IMHO if youre just using the bike on the road.

Have you even checked the fuelling to make sure its nor dangerously lean?

fitted and corretly set up on my 999 it made a huge difference i would say.

I haven't got one fitted...as they don't do them for my 'ol SP...but I would definately consider one if poss.

The benifits often described are improved throttle respose, smoother/less snatchy at lower openings, smoother torque curve, more MPG...all of which I would say are real world benifits if you are riding the bike 'normally' on the road?

I've got PC3 fitted to 2003 749S with asym Termi. Not quite what you were asking for I know.

In discussion with the dynojet dealer I was told that the manufacturers are restricted when they do the fuelling by the noise and emission regs. For example all fuel injected bikes are likely to have a richer spot in the fuel mixture at 5,500 rpm, because that is the point where the noise tests are done and a richer micture deepens the exhaust note making it easier to pass.

The PC3 will sooth the curve, and give you a more responsive throttle. That is the main difference I noticed with it, it is more "ready to go" now.

Henry,

I think what you're saying makes sense for a standard system like Mark's.

I have the same setup as yours (minus the PCIII). Do you reckon it's worth me having one fitted? I'm not after more power, so is it worth it from a "smooth running" perspective?

I ran mine for a year on road and track with the ECU that came with the Termi. I liked it, but knew no different (except the previous year without the Termi).

I HAD to do something because the ECU blew, replacement was going to take some time and I had a track day booked the following week. I got the std ECU refitted (thanks SteveR from Italia), and then got a PC3 fitted to correct the fuelling. Trust me - the fuelling is way off at higher revs with Termi and std fuelling ECU!

The result was that it was noticably more responsive across the range, and it seemed to jsut go on and on. Previosuly I had noticed a tail off over 8,500 rpm, which did not surprise me, but now it keeps pulling right up over 10k! The throttle response seems much better now, quicker to rev and gets to the interesting area much quicker. It's been like having a new bike this last couple of months of this year. :)

Conclusion - road or track, well worth having the PC3, IMHO.

Cheers - may well look into that in the New Year then...

Not the same bike, but the result of fitting Akrapvoics & the PCIIIUSB, togther with a bespoke map programmed by the 'Dyno-Jet' gurru up at Jordan Bikes (Leeds), has transformed my R1 from what was already respectable out of the crate, to a bike which now has sublime throttle response and incredible power.

The PC does work, but the mapping is critical.

[Edited on 22-12-2005 by RCA]

That's the truth too. I had a custom map done when the PC3 was fitted, thinking that would be best for it. I had trouble with that and more dyno time didn't sort the flat spots properly. I ended up loading the asym termi map supplied by dynojet and it felt fine. It was for the 2004 model year, which has some changes in the engine, but it feels right. I will get it back on a dyno sometime in the spring to check the fuelling is still ok with that but I suspect it will be.

Im pretty sure that if your revving the thing to bits then it will more than likely that it will run lean ie trackdays. If how ever you are using it day to day then theres not really much of a problem. I know that speaking to Charlie in Ducati Glasgow that they more times than not dont fit the Termi ECU and leave the stock one in.

In my opinion the pc111 is the best bit of kit you can get to gain 1st exellent throttle response and 2nd power gains i fitted a 57mm ti leo vince system to my 749r and a pc111 and then asked my local dealer to do a custom map which just turned out to be a map down loaded from the dyno jet site, then i went to jhsracing near bristol who when i told him i was a tech for yamaha then offered to let me watch him custom map my bike, untill i saw it for myself watching some one who knew wot thay were doing with this softwear i just did not realise how much fine tuning and how much you can do with these pc111,s the amount of adjustments that can be made through out the whole throttle opening positions is extensive thats why you end up with great throttle responce, thay are a well worthy improvement to any ducati.

i've had an 05 ecu and a power commander fitted on my 04 bog standard 749s. what a difference miles more mid range grunt

well pleased

any time I have looked through the site I cannot find anyone posting power/torque curves or even just stating what their before and after figures are.

I have had one aborted attempt at having my PC111 mapped.

With asymmetric termis and the standard ecu only, my 749 made 100bhp at the wheel. Since then it has been serviced it feels like it is making a bit more than that now. I will be getting the PC111 mapped in February, and will post the results.

In the meantime, does anyone have before and after figures or di you just get improved rideability?

its a 999 but you get the idea:

Don't know what it was on my 749 bip before fettling, but after JHP worked on it, made 107bhp :D

great, thanks. Will be off to JHP myself. Is your 107 with a PC111 and standard asym. termis?

cheers

Derek

Yep, standard termi asymmetric system with cat free front pipe...pulls like a train with a clean curve all the way to the limiter! :D

749 v ZX-6R comparison
 

Well you can tell I have too much time on my hands at the moment so I spent some of it workin the following out.

I read in another post about how 749's are overpriced/underperform in comparison to jap bikes, and that they are not good value, and that some in the bike press feel they are underpowered etc. Part of this comes from the fact that in line 4s post much higher maximum power output figures than a 749. As most of you will know its not really power that counts as it is a function of torque and rpm, so the greater rpm you can run to, the more power you will have. Lower revving v twins are always therefore going to produce less power. They do however produce torque by the spade load.

So, before I start, yes this is very unscientific and of no real value, two different dynos, different locations, maybe different altitudes, temperatures, grade of fuel etc, but what the hell, its an out of interest comparison. Be interesting to see some more accurate data from other bikes. Could we have a dyno graph section where we can post results?

What counts is not a peak fugure as you dont ride about at 136bhp, what counts is the area under the torque curve. So I compared this for a 749 (rated to be 108bhp stock), with termis, no power commander and a Kawasaki, Zx-6R (636cc rated to be 136bhp stock) but with full akropovic and and a PC111.

Both power figures above are calculated at the flywheel for a stock bike.

Measured at the wheel for modified bikes the bhp figures were

KWAK (full akropovic system, pc111 with custom map)- 116bhp
749 (asymmetric termis, no pc111)- 103bhp

So by this one figure method of comaprison, there is a big difference. But when you integrate the area under the torque curve the Kwak is only 3% ahead, and this could well be reduced/eliminated if the 749 had a PC111. The 749 torque curve looks very choppy in comparison to the Kwak, so a pc111 is likely to be a big help.

Areas under each curve were calculated between 4000 and 11000rpm for the 749 and 7000 to 14,000rpm for the Kwak. So a 7000rpm power band for each

Given the close result, I would guess that this is why 749's run against 600cc in line 4s in Supersport series, ie why they are allowed more CC

I will try an post the graphs up. Be interesting to compare a 999S with an R1/GSXR1000

here is the graph, hopefully

try again

Well, here it is. Still has some flat spots in the torque curve but that's from the exhaust and guess something I'll just have to live with. 41t sproket I got for Christmas should help out with that though. HP curve I thought looks pretty good. As for justifying a PCIII & custom map...3-5 hp gain EVRYWHERE and a gain of 7 at the best. Torque increased everywhere as well. BUT, the kicker...look at the air/fuel ratio. Does it get any better than that?? That's what you can feel in the seat and in the throttle EVERYWHERE!!!

very nice indeed, feel free to mail me a copy of your map:lol::lol:

Doesn't Galaxy have a full system though??? Shame it's not an assymetric or I'd be after the map too :lol:

[Edited on 26-12-2005 by Twinfan]

I would say that if youre trundling about in it doing the usual day to day stuff then its not going to make a big difference. If youre doing trackdays then maybe it is. Ive just had my full termis fitted and Im not going to bother with it any more. Its something i did consider. Seems a waste of money IMHO if youre just using the bike on the road.

Davie,you talk a lot of pish and as you don't know which way your bike is pointing I would say people in general should dismiss your technical opinion...IMHO that is....merry xmas

Perfect example for him is on my graph...Look at the A/F of the system with the Ducati performance ECU that came with it. (red line) It's kinda wavy, but not too awful bad. Yes, you could probably live with it normal driving on the street if you so desired. BUT, take a look at my map and he made some very drastic changes to fix that sucker. I remember seeing a change of 17 in some places. Even for the street it was very worth it. This was a change you can feel in the seat of your pants at any driving condition or rpm, and not just a huge gain in hp at the very top that you may never notice.

Yes, my map includes the following....54mm full 2-1-2 system, stock air filters, new NGK plugs, 18* outside, 65' elevation. If anyone wants to give it a try let me know.

[Edited on 26-12-2005 by galaxy]