620/800 instrument panels ?
 

Anyone got any more info on this ?

Other than the real solution is to spend out on a FIM unit but still trying various things on my 620

Phil, the way I understand it is: if you have to get the clocks replaced (like under warranty etc) you have to take your existing key (red) to be re-programmed to the new clocks.
It is worth looking for a set of replacement clocks, to keep as 'spares' for just in case.....??

Otherwise, use the keys with that ignition only, as coded to it:(

I could, as usual be totally talking out of my backside tho:lol:

C

The immobiliser function is just a chip on the circuit board. So hows about... just buy some second hand clocks and in the event of smashing them up just swap the internals over.

Or just disable the immobilier!

wanted spare 620 clocks set :o

As an electronics engineer I can tell you now that trying to remove a surface mount ic inevitably ends in tears when using a soldering iron or even one with the right solder bit on it. You need to have the right gear otherwise the heat will kill the ic.

Believe me, I've spent lots of effort on this and, as Kev says, the answer is an FIM unit. On my circuit board at least all the indentifying numbers of the ic's have been removed so, even identifying the correct ic is very difficult. I wrote to Marelli and Ducati asking for service info and circuit diagrams but, got no reply at all.

That's about the top & bottom of it. I'm going to try an experiment with my 2 SS bikes insofar as I am going to put the new bikes clocks on the old bike and see what happens. According the to info I have from John Hackett some bikes will run like this, some won't but, it's a lottery.

twpd... I was thinking of just swapping the whole board rather than trying to take a component off it.
I've had mine apart but can't remember if the board just unplugs or is hard wired to something.

I'd like to try'n disable the immobiliser but it aint my bike!

Sorry mate I misread you. Well mine is a plug & play unit - the harness just plugs into it. What I am going to do is rehouse it in a steel box under the seat.

From what i understand the codeing isnt activated untill yoiu start the bike using the red key.
We fitted a new clock to Daves bike after his off and it started with no problems.
Butch

Dead right butch, but that's only with new clocks.
2nd hand clocks already coded to another bike won't work no matter how many different coloured keys you've got!

Unless someone knows different????

Spot on young man.

I have spoken at length to Ducati on this during 2005.
All new bikes appear to be run on test, with red key, to activate coding. So if you have brand new bike, ask for red key NOT to be used.

At present, if you damage the clocks, they might not 'read' but might be activated enough internally to start the bike.
Worse case scenario, is to either then:
replace clocks (with new ones (bloddy expensive) or
get FIM chip (cheaper option, than new clocks)

Still working thru ideas, will let you know what happens

Alan

That sounds like a pretty solid picture Alan.
The essential element that worried me enough to post the question, is that it will stop us dead in our tracks at a race meeting.
Ducati will know all this of course, so if we find the right person to ask, we can hopefully get the factory-approved way of making our race bikes able to run without the clocks when this happens.
Eg - what to do if you dont know your immobiliser code cos you bought the bike for a song and it didnt have that nice little tag :o
Eg - how much 'matching kit' you have to have as a spare if it all goes pear-shaped ?
(I will happily organise/test/start-a-fund for a 'spare set' to be available to us all)

At the very least, we all (620 riders) know where we stand now.
Anyone know anyone useful :)

ps
I'm quite glad I have the 583 as well :P

Why not just run a 1.6M ECU and relevant harness and get a chip programed to suit, legal in Desmo Due but not in Minitwins. then you could run a 748/916 Revcounter and not have to wory as much.

Flemse has just had it done to his 999 and I know it has also been done on a 998 which also runs the 5.9M ECU but without the immobiliser

http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/xm....php?tid=27418

OK I have a red key with a small tag attached I take it this is the code number?

Dose this mean i can get any set of 620 clocks, IE monster, sport or multi
put them on the bike get them coded then use that set if the inevitable happens?

Surely if the doner clocks have never been run with the red key they will fit straight on.
Butch

Nuther thought,i have amate who is an electronics whizz prehaps i could get him to decode a set for use as spares for the use of all
Butch

worth having a word with him butch, but as far as a can work out, the ecu won't demobilise until gets a signal from the clocks. So he'd have to take the code out the ecu also.

Could be wrong tho!

So what we need is a blank ecu then?
Butch

I had a doc describing how the system worked and what talked to what, but I'll be buggered if can find it! Where's frank??!!

I think the easiest solution would be to try'n get hold of an unused set of clocks.

I have a document that does that. I will try to find it. If I do, I'll scan it and upload.

Nick,would a set of clocks from a buke that hasnt been coded not be ok?
The ones we fitted to Daves bike were off just such a bike.
Butch

Butch...I'd be interested in those clocks if you want shot of them for a price.

I've made some small progress on this - I've removed all the dc motors from the panel, all the mounts etc and have built a small loom extension & tested it ok. The next step is to re-house the pcb in a suitable enclose from Maplins or RS. Once that is working I will be able to relocate it under the seat out of harm's way so, at least the bike can be used.

The next step after that is to obtain a cct diagram to try to find whether or not the panel can be jumpered out of the circuit.

I also plan to test it on the new 800 to verify whether or not panels can be interchanged between the bikes.

Today I fitted the panel from the old bike to my new bike. It was immobilised and would not start. I fitted the new bike's panel to the old bike with the same results.

So.....it would seem that indeed you cannot swap panels and therefore you cannot use a 2nd-hand instrument panel that has been coded to another bike.

:sniff:

The clocks we used were secondhand but had never been used with the red key,therefore uncoded.
If we had one such set in the paddock surely that would get us out of trouble.
Butch

Alas I am not one of the DD crew but, that's a really good a noble idea. Well worth doing imo. Good on yer. :eureka:

So, anyone know the best person at Ducati UK we should contact to find out if there is a 'factory-approved' solution if one of us gets immobilised at a race meeting ?
(ie at the track - NOT paying a fortune to a dealer by plugging into their diagnostic equipment at their premises some considerable time after the racing finishes)

Hmmm, even knowing how to tell if the clocks have ever been used with a red key would be a start, wouldnt it :eureka:

Phil...I've been through all this mate - with Ducat UK's technical rep'...can't remember his name now but, there isn't a workaround. It's a crazy daft situation.

I will try to source a set of uncoded clocks as spares for all riders.
would only be "on loan " untill the end of the meeting and would need to be replaced if damaged-would that be ok for all riders?
butch

Are we being thick here ?
I've not been able to try this cos my road monster didnt come with a code-card ...
(it _was_ cheap ! any suggestions on the easy way to get the code ?)

BUT, if the immobiliser is disabled, will it stop looking for the correct key ?

AND ... I cant find any instructions on how to re-enable the immobiliser if you do disable it ?

Phil,

I haven't tried it nor am I going to but, I doubt that it will work tbh. To try this you would need to have the ignition on. Only a fool unplugs/plugs in live electronic components - you would run the risk of trashing the panel electronics and/or the ECU.

Suggestion: If anybody does try removing either their cpu or the instrument panel then be sure to remove the 3A fuses in the fusebox first to isolate them.

I don't think we're being any thicker than normal Phil !

The immobilliser can be disabled using software, but the software needs the code to be entered from the card wot you don't have. And yes, the ecu will stop looking for the key and clocks.
Re-enable it using the same software.

Have you found another way to immobilise it??

Added:
twpd is obviously spot on... don't be trying to mess with circuitry while it's live!

[Edited on 9-1-2006 by NBs996]

yeh yeh yeh - you young whipper snappers got the wrong end of the stick !
what I mean is ... if we can disable the immobiliser in the clock circuitry - why isnt that good enough ?
Wouldnt a disabled clock-unit work with any key ?
I _am_ assuming it stays disabled of course - or is that what you mean by 'using the software' - which really means using the dealers diagnostic computer ?

(I am an electronics eng who writes embedded software for a living :saint:)

Ok phil, i gotcha!

i gather the immobiliser is in the ecu and is looking for a signal from the clocks before it wakes up... so i can't see that disabling the source signal would fool the ecu otherwise they'd be easy to just hotwire wouldn't they?

(I'm not an electronics engineer and I don't write embedded software for a living!)

but but but but ....
the keys are coded to the clocks ... ?
the antenna is wired into the clocks ... ?
...
a blank new set of clocks works with any ecu !

you see where my thinking got me now :puzzled:

nobody said they were impossible to hotwire :devil:

The simple and effective solution that is proven to work is to fit an FIM ECU. The best engineering solution is always the simplest. ;)

Thats how I understand it, don't suppose anybody knows what signal this is, as I understand it the ECU is also coded to the key system which would point to the signal from the clocks being a unique signal for each bike rather than a uniform stream of pulses that could be replicated by a signal generator.

had a long chat with magnetti merrelli about this today,if your bike has never been run with the red key your clocks are uncoded ,if it has you will need a blank set of clocks to run it.
As long as you dont use the red key the replacement clocks will remain uncoded,therefore my earlier suggestion satnds.
Butch

I'm getting too confused! Think I'll just plug in the laptop and hit the override button!!

So butch, are you saying that the system will demobilise without getting a signal from the clocks?

twpd - sadly, my budget is saying no to a FIM ecu :sniff: