track day tyres road/slick
 

im thinking about tracy day tyres for 2006 and have never ridden on slicks, so i know u need warmers for slicks, come on santa read the list.

what benifit do slick offer, cost/durability/ grip

what make compound of slicks do people recomend how long do they last etc or shoiuld i stay with road tyres, i usually finfd myself at the sharp end of the fast group so i could probably use the benefit of more grip. ive been riding on soft compond supercorsas and 209 this year, and had a few memorable slides (PURP) would the slicks offer any better feedback etc here

just weighing up the tyhe value for money side of the situation as i dont have a money tree, ( santa not brought me one of those yet despite it being on my list 10 years running)

never rode on slicks mate.

I am normaly up the sharp end of the fast group as well and I run diablo corsas and normaly sort sldes with tyre presures and maybe run rear damping a bit softer.

My worry with slicks would be if it was wet and all you had were slicks ! slicks in the wet are a no no for mortals like us.

[Edited on 24-12-2005 by AGE996]

so what do you find works with the tyre pressures. and for damping are you talking about compression/rebound or both.

i was finding a lot of rear sliding a problem

i have wets on spare rims so wouldnt be bothered about riding slicks in the wet, it just shouldnt really happen.

Yeah i run 28 to 30 rear presure and soften off the compression damping just to allow a bit more squat. The back end still slides but it is controlable.

[Edited on 24-12-2005 by AGE996]

Bungi...I know knob all about slicks as I run at the slow end of the inters...but from what I have read and understand from here, there and everywhere is that slicks can be a a very expensive/confusing option.

Unless you really (and I mean REALLY) know your stuff, I've heard that there are a million and one combinations of slick out there. If you are happy to take what your given...go for it.

I always look at things like this and think to the R6 cup boys who probably run 10-15 secs a lap faster the fastest of the fast group, on road legal treaded dunlops.

If you want to blow your money on slicks...knock yourself out, but I would rather spend my money on trying to improve MY ability.

This is not a dig at your ability in any way...just a general obersavtion.

[Edited on 24-12-2005 by Harv748]

This is an interesting point I've been going over in my head. Those of us on here with a fair bit of experience (not me) will be smiling at us as they've been down this road before I'm sure but ...

I can run comfortably in the fast group at pretty much any circuit on a 620 monster on standard diablo's. I'm going to Jerez for a few days at the end of Jan and I'm taking the 998R. It is currently fitted with rennsports that have a few day's under their belt and I'm going to try a set of pirelli slicks out there and see how I get on. I'll put them on after I get to know the track and the rennsports are shagged.

My understanding, from questioning racers etc on this, is that the 17 inch slicks will give a bit more grip, allowing more lean, earlier throttle opening, braking later and leaned over etc ... but lasting longer than treaded tyres and giving you a second or so a lap. 16.5 inch slicks will give you an additional 2 seconds a lap over and above that. Obviously there's a lot more expense in going down this road so I'm not, I'll run the 17 inch versions and see how I get on

So I'll let you know what happens.

Anyone got any laptimes from their trip to Jerez?

And anyone with experience on slicks care to comment on the information I've gathered above? Some experienced comments would be useful.

"Anyone got any laptimes from their trip to Jerez?"

Jon, lily and i were under 2' 10" with mobile shicanes etc etc.

The 'genuine' fastest of the fastest, were under 2 mins.... 1'58" so on........that said, when my mate went earlier in the year there were 2 16yr old Honda stars on 600s doing 1' 46"!!

That doesnt mean cos your in the "fast" group your fast of course! We timed a lot of people in the "fast" group on our trip and were not suprised by the times!

Jon/lily could explain it better they understood who was a supposed racer and in what!

:D

Oh, you also need to add the "risk" factor in there............just how hard are really going to push on your 998r? more than the DD bike?

[Edited on 24-12-2005 by andyb]

The fastest I got down to was just a tad over a 2:06 (from the lap timer on the R) in fact I think we all got to about that on the odd occasion, 2:08's/10's were consistent with traffic I guess, I went faster on 209's than I did on 208's if that's anything to go by

Some good advice, thanks guys.

How hard will I push the 998R - not as hard as the DD bike. But I'm not going pish around either. I've got a lot of things I want to work on with my riding and I find that a lot of things only come together for me when I'm in a groove. Then of course I want to try the slicks and see if I can notice the difference and see if I can go a bit harder.

I've heard a rumour that a few Glasgae boys were fairly nippy. Bill around the 2:00 mark and Martin around the 1:55 mark? Sounds like Martin is pretty quick.

i guess this is what im hoping for , some comments from some guys that have been at this point before>>>would be useful


it will be interesting to know how you find the slcks when you try them.

[Edited on 24-12-2005 by Bungi]

Is the old girl tracked up TP? fairings etc.......I remember seeing Everton almost in tears at Silverstone after rashing one of his carbon fairings....

Yep - full track trim including a tank. All in black :smug:

The original stuff will be in the loft.

Having said that, a lot of the track stuff is carbon too! Tim's old stuff but I have destroyed a bit of it when I crashed at Rocky .. I've replaced those panels with Barry's GRP stuff.

Treaded tyres every time for me, latest Pirellis or Metzelers usually, not yet fast enough for slicks.
Just watching things like R6 Cup, National Superstocks, 600 Supersport etc show me that I am not yet getting near the limits of what I already use.

:cough: hello.... :biaggi:

Oh yeah - and one panel replaced by the good man Freak :D

I had to buy another nosecone and bellypan too in the end! Damn Rockingham!

Oh, this is TP at Phillc's place :D

hello, i have found that slicks work in a narrower band of conditions, the temperature is the first and they do take an extera lap compared to treaded tyres to warm up. also as they have more outright grip and no tread they move around less and feel more surefooted when your near the limit, but then there is less warning that you are near the limit. I think you need to be a very good rider to really benfit from using them the new supercorsa pro and dunlops are so good now that at thruxton the british supersport 600s are lapping as quick as the suprbikes did in 97 or 98.

Hello folks,
I've done loads of miles on slicks, this season and last!

All the info i've read on this thread is pretty spot on. I'll include a few of my observations.

I have only used 17" as that's standard on my 749R.

You would use different compound dependant on the the track your at. Wear rate / grip will determine that.

This sometimes takes a bit of trial and error. Eg this year at Jerez I put on some Michelin softs front and rear. Stunning grip (and I mean stunning!) but they were completely wrecked to the point of sliding everywhere after 15 - 20 laps!
That's what you would expect though from a soft (think almost qualifying) tyre.

The difference in grip between a hard and soft can be felt but to a mere mortal like myself, I choose durabilty (less cost) over grip so go for med or hard dependant on venue.

The Michelin front is also very "pointy". ie. a tall tyre with a good sidewall grip. I found it changed the set-up on the bike and it felt a bit twitchy. A few clicks and ride height change sorted that.

Tony, the best slick combination I found on Jerez was a hard rear and medium front. You'll should get a good full day of sessions when the tyre is good. Your pace will dictate how long they last but the grip is far superior (simply more rubber in contact with the deck than treaded tyres) and the wear rate will be comparible to the guys on road tyres (if not better in my experience!).

You def can feel the extra grip, but the first time I tried them, I thought I hadn't tightened the front wheel up enough as the bike was turning so fast. It was just the higher profile on the tyre. A few laps later, it was incredible, you can push the front SOOO much harder without feeling you're risking as much.
It's true the pro's can do it on a road tyre but having a slick on gave me a mental edge where I felt I could push that little bit harder.:roll:

An excellent compromise is the Michelin Pilot Race (track and dry-ish road). Different compounds available and the grip is superb almost like a slick!!

You honestly don't need tyre warmers although they are recommended. You just have to take it REAL easy and let the tyre heat up slowly.
If you go too hard too fast you could
a) come off and feel like a right knob! (worst error this, nearly done it myself a few times DOH!!, all for the sake of waiting a few laps)
b) cause "cold tear" where the tyre and track conditions are at such different temps and the tyre just rips to bits in a few hot laps.

Pirelli Diablo / Corsa, Michelin Pilot Road / Race, Rennsports, are all fantastic tyres I have used in various different venues / temps. (EG. Imola, Jerez, Croft, among others)
If you spend a few laps getting them up to temp you'll be on it.

IMHO, slicks are the dogs, don't cost much (if any) more dosh, and give you a mental edge that will help with the lap times:bouncy::bouncy: More speed and less risk! (well it feels that way anyway:))

They take a bit of getting used to as I said above but def worth a try. I would say go for it!!!

This pic on the Michelins, I really miss this place!!!

And this one.

GREAT PICS, I can ONLY dream about getting that STYLISH :sniff:

Who took your pictures Martin? It certainly wasnt that claydon photography (with 100%) that i paid 40 euros to for nothing!

I wanted a momento like that and it was achievable, but alas...................

PS, that picture to your left is turn 2 at jerez................
//////////////
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
:D

[Edited on 24-12-2005 by andyb]

Cheers for that. I know you've been my biggest fan!! Ha!

Still no mention of a laptime from you I see ... scared I'll beat it?

;)

:ninja:

Jon, lily and i were under 2' 10" with mobile shicanes etc etc.


Oh how we all laughed,Lily toasted you,jon and of course me the mobile Chicane(with a C).How do you get away with making up confessions with spelling like that????
I don't personally think anyone doing trackdays can use all the performance of Michelin power race/Metzeler racetecs etc so running slicks is a head thing...Tyre warmers allow you to stop wasting 3 laps and for the cost are well worth it....oh and watch out for the Jerez lap time fairy they really feck about with peoples timers.....:devil:

I ran slicks on the 996R last year for a while - I went with the Pirellis SC compounds, so I could do a direct comparison with the Supercorsa compounds.

I ran SC1 front and SC2 rear - wear rate was the same as the Supercorsas etc etc....

The biggest bonus for me (and knowing that I can't ride to anywhere the capabilities of the bike) - was the increase in confidence. Just having slicks fitted made me ride more aggresively and confidently - there must be more grip - right?

The therory said yes, but it gave me a lot of confidence - and what price confidence? Slicks are no more expensive than SCsThe only downside with slicks is the apparent lack of grip in the wet, but again a theory here is that unless there are puddles of rain on the track, a slick will actually have a larger surface area in contact with the tarck (no groves) and therefore offer more grip. (provided that it can push all the water away).

So - if you've a dedicated track bike - or spare wheels - go for it!!! They're greeeeeeaaaaaatttt !!!

Tim

for me thats abit like saying you dont need a 996r coz racers / quicker peeps can lap quicker than u on a 916 !!! for me it will still malke me quicker round eh? well actually no coz im more frightened of crashing it, but if i wasnt it would!!!

i really dont agree that is ALL in the head, of course confidence plays a big part, but if a tyre is better gives more grip then once your at a certan level, better trye will eqaul, either all or a mixture of better lap times/ more confidence/ less tricky moments,



i dont necessarily go to track days with a focus on improving my lap times, although through focusing on the track learning it better and improving techinique improved times would subsequently follow. yes i want to fast, but i dont really want to end up in the tyre wall again!!

How do the wear rates of slicks compare with road tyres.

i was running on sc1 front and sc2 rears last year. and if using the 996r would get through a rear in a day. a day and a half on the 916

is the compound choices for slicks so complex that id have to consider the track temerature as an important aspect of deciding what compound to go for.

just wondering if a comparable maybe slightly softer compound would last longer in slick format compared to a cut road tyre, as the magority of the wear appers to me to be at the edge of the cuts in the tread?? !!

i guess if i knew i wouldnt be asking though??

I knew this would happen,,,,,so i got lily to time me!!:P

She had me at a 2' 06" and said if YOU haddnt of got in the way it would of been a 1' 50 something!;):lol::lol::lol:

To the ordinary punter most slicks are offered in soft medium and hard. I believe its only factory or professional teams trhat can get a larger choice. One thing that should be considerd is suspension. A slick is constructed different to a supersport tyre in the fact that it allows for poorer suspension. The SS tyre will have more flex built into the tyre wall to cope with the Inferior suspension. Teams that run slick and have full BSS/WSB suspension can dial out problems giving the tyre an easier life. I've been running slicks this year due mainly to the fact I already had them. I can't give any comparisions because I have them on the CBR600. I still managed to slide the rear, so don't start thinking that there are great big gobs of grip available. Everyone shoud try slicks at some point, just for the experience and to qwell any thoughts that these things are the bees knees. I will be switching back to supersport tyres for 2006, I never did get them to slide only the front once and that was when I binned it on cold tyres.

I knew this would happen,,,,,so i got lily to time me!!

She had me at a 2' 06" and said if YOU haddnt of got in the way it would of been a 1' 50 something!


How could I get in the way?a fast guy like you would just toast me surely???
Oh stop please stop I can't breathe:lol::lol::lol::barfy::lol::lol:

[Edited on 26-12-2005 by berto]

Berto you just like to see us on the grass :lol: and that would have nothing to do with you... honest :rolleye:

[Edited on 26-12-2005 by JPM]

:roll: You passed me sooo fast I didn't know it had happened..I'm just honoured to have shared the tarmac with you,Andy,Vale and Sete.....My heroes...:burn:

If the riding is anything like that welding.......we must all be 4yr olds!:lol::lol::lol:

Think he rides like he welds.......






With his eyes closed :lol:

Sorry it's taken so long to reply, been away for a couple of weeks and just not touched a 'pooter!!


The excellent Picman! (see picman.co.uk) I've had loads done by this chap and his work is always amazing! He was also the guy that was at Cadwell for the track attack in July!


Terrified mate!
:D

Wish I could say i've done a 1.55 but I aint :(
Best i've done is in the 58's on the 749. Wish I had the ponnies to get the drive down the straights, that should be worth a couple of seconds a lap, maybe I'll get the R tuned! Been really thinking about that for a while! :burn:

:D

At Cartagena my 996 ate slicks in about a day and a half but got 2 and a half days out of Supercorsas - about a second a lap faster on the slicks than my best on Supercorsas. (Still 10 seconds slower than the pros on stock GSXR750s:( )
I was using SC1 front SC2 rear in both types of tyre

Martin, was you at the dsc day at cadwell last summer??
Just wondering if it was you who i was chasing for a couple of laps before you ran wide at the bottom of Mansfield. Bit of grass tracking IIRC before getting back on the track, not sure who it was but the bike was a 749/999 shape with similiar colours to your bike. (In the afternoon i think)

I'm trying Dunlop Slicks next weekend for the first time on my new racebike at Snetterton.
I've only been timed there when I took my ZX12R there last year. It had K-tech front and rear suspension and was only the 2nd time I rode it so it was set the same as when I picked it up. On D207's (rear nearly shagged) my best lap was a 1min 25.
Later with a scrubbed 190 section rear Metzeler sportec M1 I clocked a 1min 24 with a lot less spinning and sliding.
Even though it's winter I'm expecting to get sub 1 min 20's on 16.5" slicks as the bike was in BSB last year and still has most of the trick bits. The motors stock now with a full race system but should still go well it's a ZX10.
I'm not sure slicks would work well with road suspension and they're a bit of a gamble if you havn't got spare wheels.
Dunlop D207RR's are the best all weather track tyres I've used so far.

The Dunlop 16 and a half inch slicks are nothing short of shocking. In cold and damp conditions they gave reasuring feel and decent grip. Later when it the track was warm the grip was so good I went out without tyre warmers to get a feel for them if they should start to slide. Even then they were sticky after a lap or so.
Once warm the standard ZX10R motor struggles to trouble them, only hamfisted throttle openings at full lean will make them move slightly. However as a result of so little give in the tyre grip the chasis shakes violently when power is applied hard through corners. I'm going to be looking for a better suspension setup at cadwell this weekend to try and calm it down.
Overall I'd say slicks are overkill for most trackday riders and at the moment I would prefer a tyre with a bit less grip so I could turn the bike a bit easier in corners.

Interesting reading and I'd love to try slicks one day just to see what they are like - not that I could really do them any justice.

This weeks MCN has Colin Edwards riding his M1 Yamaha with Michelin track day/road tyres and although the bike was put on it's mildest settings he was only 2 secs off qualifying for the GP on them.

I reckon Rattler is right - they must be grippier so I must be able to go faster on them (mind over matter) :D

What can you guys tell me about the different compounds?? Right now I am looking at two options...Pilot Race or the new dual compound Pilot Power 2CT. Kinda leaning towards the Race just for the sheer confidince and the fact that I'm looking for a track only tire and not a dual use tire. Cost is also not the biggest factor since the price between the two is negligible and I need them anyways. This is also for my very first track day, so I'll take what ever you guys got. I'm mainly thinking about going with the Pilot Race but want to learn what I can about which compound may be best for me.