Banned/edited/censored
 

In the year 2006 do you think it is right for someone/somepeople(not the majority) to force their opinions on what you can read/see....Discuss:saint:

nope, i think it's 100% wrong.

i can however to an extent see why clubs like DSC must censor certain things like Dealer comment and criticisms, but on the whole it's very wrong.

A public forum should in theory be exactly that.

Vote C

I vote D for dom :lol::lol:

If it keeps the peace, keeps the sensible option,does'nt involve politics or religion and that the opinion is made by a proper elected official then why not, unless you would rather have anachy. Opinions are like ********s every one's got one, but ever one cant be right other wise thats where things only end up if too many people throw in there opinion. Is'nt that why we have Team Leaders, Manager's, Editor's,Goverments to do it for us. If some one ask's for your opinion. Give it if not Butt out , thats my policy 4D

Yes its right that a degree of censorship exists, personally I have no desire to see violence, violent images, exploitation of children etc on for example a motorcycle forum, thats not to say that they should be censored per-se but it should take into account what the viewer or reader expects or its reasonable to assume exists there. But therein lies the problem, who decides what we can and can't see and where can we see it ?:)

if you don't like the rules create your own little virtual world or work within the rues to change them to what you want, thats the other bit that goes with free speech, democracy...

It looks like Berto's post is in reference to his bike for sale posts.

oh, thats different, thats advertising not a discussion on censorship, but thats probably a bigger can of worms round here than censorship though :D

Evening,

I will take a further look into what has happened today (I've just walked through the door) and speak to Eamonn tomorrow.

Mark (Flanks.)

I dont think it would be right to discuss...............:lol::frog:

or are you forcing me to discuss?:lol::lol:

Next time open it first :lol::lol::lol:

I knew I forgot to do something! :lol:

whoops:cool:

Nothing should be banned...apart from the obvious sick crap.....its a public forum for people who ride bikes, Ducatis or not!!!!!

everyone seems to think it is a public forum, but it is not, it is a message board run for a members club, and subject to the rules of the club

I accept rules......I used to be Royal Air Force, Ive done more rules than hot dinners....but rules should stay the same for everyone. Thats what gets me down about DSC now.

I think people forget that little fact some times . 4D

[Edited on 29-1-2006 by Fordie]

the thing that upsets me the most about this whole thing is the winging and belly aching from people who have bee asked quite politely to think about how many adds they have thrown up.
as soon as it happens there like "WELL SO AND SO GETS AWAY WITH IT"
shut up you winging grass, and any way your getting away with it at the mo, nothing has been removed. play the game FFS

Having just read through the original thread that caused the problem and seen the exchange of U2U’s between Berto and the moderator who took the action that so angered Berto I see that there is more to this than just censorship. Threatening, abusive behaviour has and will never be acceptable on this messageboard or within this club. There were a number of requests for Berto to back off but he just kept coming back, - not acceptable.

Now the subject of adverting on this messageboard and what is commercial and what is not is another subject, - and a very difficult one. The MT have always tried to take a view of fairness (believe it or not) but I fear that given recent events we as a club will have to take a tougher or different line on this. We have also have never had strict T’s and C’s for messageboard that require acceptance by the user, - this again will likely change, - a shame in one way as I would have hoped that common sense could have prevailed but instances like this prove that it can no longer be that way.

This messageboard pound for paid up DSC member who uses it is expensive to run, there is a feeling within the club that paid up members are subsidising others for their own gain and that is not right.

Last year or the year before (I forget) at the AGM we discussed the messageboard being private members only, I can see the subject coming up for discussion again. Perhaps DSC roundels next to usernames changes peoples opinions about things like this?

As only a small percentage of paid up members actually use the message board then perhaps it will not be a detrimental to the future of the club as it might have been if we were to make it members only.

no, but on the other side this is the quickest way for any paid up member to request assistance / parts / advice etc and a lot of the time that comes from a non paid up member that uses the boards and for their own reasons isn't a member. The club would lose a huge resource pool by privatising the boards.

Also a lot of paid up members come via the board, they get carded, have a look, post maybe two or three times than join, go on rideouts but rarely use the boards.

Closing the boards frm the Dcatisti at large will do far more harm than good ...

That obvioulsy is just my opinion ...

I agree with Dibble. Close the board to the general ducati riding public and you won't have much of a board any more. It's only new blood coming in that keeps the board interesting instead of it becoming a boring talking shop. I can't imagine anything worse than the same clique of people re-running an endless red vs yellow debate or 916 vs 999 yawn.

OK that might be an exageration, but the fact is that by restricting the people you allow to post, you also restrict the amount of interest and some people have a very narrow range of views.

I also agree that some people forget that this is NOT a public forum, but a service paid for by people like me. For myself, I'm quite happy to see people posting up adverts as long as they don't take the ****.

In my opinion, people like Nelly get it dead right. He makes the occasional plug for Cornerspeed, and throws up the occasional deal - but in my view he more than 'pays' for that with the free advice that he gives people on lots of technical questions. Fair exchange of selflessly given advice for the odd plug - I don't mind that at all.

I don't want to see commercial organisations posting on here unchecked, and I don't like to see thinly disguised traders taking advantage either, and to be honest the 1 post newbies who use their first and only post to advertise a bike (even Yamaha's FFS) without any intention of adding any value to the life or spirit of this club really **** me off, but that's just my opinion. On balance I would much rather bite my tongue and let those types of posters continue to use the forum than close it off and let it stagnate into mediocrity - this board has often been highlighted as a real jewel amongst motorcycles forums so if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it.

and a sensible one at that Mr Dibble, Sir . There is a need for the Market Place section but not if its going down the road of E-bay and glogging up the works . I thought most "roundel's" held dear to this "arrangement" 4D

PS. Does anyone want to buy a fishing rod:lol:

I'd agree with Dibble and Jools, closing the forum to non members would lose a lot of what the forum is. However I do feel that one of the "perks" of paying your membership fee could be to allow you to advertise personal items in the marketplace, I don't see why anyone who's not a paying member or a pronto advertiser or supporting dealer should get this, its the members fees and advertisers that support this forum.

Good debate and for me the key points are:

* Keep the messageboard open to all - fresh blood always prevents stagnation, new people are needed in all aspects of club life
* Make the terms and conditions of advertising crystal clear so there is no room for misunderstanding
* Don't tie the Commercial Manager's hands behind his back - allow him to be able to offer value to businesses who want to advertise on the site

ok from what's been said then what about the open forum we have already.
but advertising for members only ?
if not a member you pay a fee for a add


[Edited on 29-1-2006 by keefer]

and what about the question of signatures? Is it ok to advertise through them? Is it ok to advertise other message boards/clubs through them?

[Edited on 29-1-2006 by Ian]

simple solution realy ! Make the sales/and wants a members only area

anyone can post up an advert into the sales/wants area , but only paid up members can view them !

that way, with all the Ducati goodies on sale in here , The coffers would be overflowing with coin.

You could have a Box at the top of the board with "Forsale this week" a few lines and then click here to view!
The paid up memeber would log in with a password
the one time surfer could not.

Eammon could sort that out!
and then the board moderaters can delete ads on the main forum!

waddaya think?

mav

As far as censorship goes, can't we each individually do our own censorship, up to a point? If I see something I consider offensive on the board, I close that thread and open something else (unless I'm re-reading something I'm about to post, then I just edit it :D)

The webteam seem to do a good job of stepping in and censoring when things get out of hand and I'm glad they are there doing that job, for free! Frankly, I'm surprised to see Flanks has time to go out with this board to keep an eye on 24/7!

I don't agree that this should be a members' only board, either. As has been said, it brings in new blood who may, or may not, decide to get more involved with the club and pay the membership fee. And there's an awful lot of experts out there who post because of their interest in Ducati who may have no interest in the club itself. So what? We shouldn't limit things to just club members. Leave them be and let them have their say.

The only thing I'm slightly concerned about with this discussion is, if I want to sell a bike, I'd want the freedom to post it on here. Similarly, if someone I know and ride with or see at DSC meets had something to sell that I might want, I'd want ot hear about it through the board. It's a very effective grapevine, for those who use it. :sing::sing:

In fairness, the radical action I took last night did not just involve censorship in the end. Personal abuse I read last night was reason enough to censor and ban someone from this site, period. Another member had similar abuse put on them during October/September, and I took the same action.

Going back to the censorship last night, the Webteam were advised that someone had posted a bike for sale, which they had no right to advertise. A moderator advised the poster of his concerns, and was met with a wave of severe abuse in my opinion.

There is progress on the rule front, some won't like these rules, some will. Can't please everyone all the time, after all we're only human. But once in place, everybody will know where they stand (i hope). But the rules will be set to please the majority.

Someone said this week in an e mail to me, remember this is a bike club, it's meant to be fun.

Mark (Flanks)

oh ****! looks like the end of the road for me then Mark!:(

You know what they say about old horses....... :P

somebody sttttttttttttttttttttttop me !:lol:

and then the fee gets added to the price - so who exactly ends up paying??

sandbar
www.sandbarcomposites.co.uk

.

The way that I see it is that every well run business should have a marketing and advertising budget, usually factored into the price of the items that they sell. It's then up to that business where they spend their budget, whether in glossy magazines, small ads in the paper or even the newsagent's window.

Whichever of these you choose, FREE advertising is a rarity. Even if I wanted to sell my bike by sticking a postcard up in the local newsagents it would cost me a couple of quid a week for an advert to Joe Public with no specific interest in bikes.

But if you look at the opportunity that the DSC board currently offers to businesses with Ducati related product, or individuals with a Ducati (or bits of one) to sell. Here is a board that can be accessed worldwide, 24 x 7, every day of the year, is PRECISELY targetted at the audience you want to reach and it's FREE !!!!

Pretty good deal for advertisers isn't it?

As has been mentioned before, this is not a public forum, it's a club message board paid for solely by the paid up members of the club.

It seems to me that individual paid up club members should be able to advertise pretty much what they like. Normally, individual people will only be selling the odd spare part, or bit of bling, and now and then might want to sell a bike. That's fine with me, it's in the spirit of the club and a valuable advantage of this board.

It also seems to me that most of us are tolerant, and happy enough to accept that non-members can, and will, advertise stuff here as well. As Ruth says, the board is largely self regulating and non-members who post up ads for Yamahas and stuff will soon get the **** ripped out of them, but that's their choice if they want to post stuf like that on a Ducati board.

It also seems to me that most people are tolerant enough to accept businesses giving themselves an occasional plug as long as it's proportionate to what they give back to the club in other ways (ie: Cornerspeed with heaps of free advice and member discount, No Limits with a genuine 10% DSC discount).

Where people begin to feel irritated is when non-members and members alike cynically exploit the board for their own self interest. Some people seem to think that once they've paid their £20 a year (less than 50 pence a week) to the club, it entitles them to set up their own version of an eBay shop - again, precisely targetted at their demographic. Once again, if these people are providing a genuine service and are putting back as much into the club as they're getting, in one way or another, then I think that's fine with most people.

All most people seem to be asking is, use the board to advertise what you like, but don't be cynical about it and don't take the **** - Most people will see straight through that so don't be surprised if you're asked to stop advertising. As well as that, don't be surprised if your advertising actually has a negative effect - most people won't buy from people who are ****ing them off.

question Jools,

what if the person in question is both a seller and a paid up member of the club ?

I’ll play devils advocate, advertising and marketing helps sell more product, in some areas, like carbon fibre , mould costs have a major influence on the finished costs, selling more splits that mould cost and reduces the price for the consumer. On top of that carbon production is labour intensive so for good pricing you need to source cheap labour, that’s not the UK, its China or Taiwan but you can’t go there without volume that’s where marketing and advertising comes in again, it increases the volume to levels where it is cost effective and reduces the price to the consumer or allows the manufacture to invest in new technologies and materials and gives the consumer more choice and better quality. The end result is the customer gets cheaper prices and better kit that’s how every everything else works, electrical goods, computers even motorbikes.

So yes, advertising does have a cost to the advertiser but no, it doesn’t always mean the customer pays for the product, they might actually pay less.......

Nicely put Jools.

Not my point Weeksy.

Member or non-member you should be able to post adverts here as long as you give something back to the club in some small way and don't take the ****.

By definition that means that paid up members have contributed more to the club simply by paying their dues. They may also contribute more than the non-member by turning up at ride outs, supporting DD or doing something at the BMF etc.

That means that personally, I'm prepared to cut paid up members more slack before I consider that they're taking the **** - but not to the point where they're using the site as a trader or continually plugging their commercial venture.

It's quite easy really, you should give back to the club what you take out and if you do I don't have a problem with anybody, but if someone is all take....doesn't matter whether they're paid up or not, after all £20 is less than a round on a Friday night, so it shouldn't entitle you to endless ads

Spot on Jools :)



PS I'm reliable informed that £20 will buy more than a round on a Friday night in Bangalore ;)

[Edited on 30-1-2006 by Henners]