748 Blown engine
 

i was riding my 748E BP on monday morning, doing about 70ish. all of a sudden there was some horrible metalic banging, i looked down, the oil light came on, then there was silence as the rear wheel locked. no warnings, no problems before - just pretty much instant and terminal failiure. couldn't get it out of gear either so either the bottom end has seized or something (valve) is stopping it from moving.

it's a 2001 bike, I've only owned it for 39 days, it's got 7000 miles on it. Only 1300 of those were mine and they were really easy miles. I only passed my bike test in November and it's my first bike. I couldn't ride it hard if i wanted to.

It's at the Ducati main dealer wating to be looked at. They have been really helpfull and were really fast recovering me and the bike, but don't have a loan bike. anyone know where i can rent one in Bedfordshire/Hertfordshire area? i need it to commute.

What could be the cause of a failiure like this? Oil starvation? (it had plenty oil in it) or is this just something that is expected with this kind of bike?

How much oil does a 748 use? it wasn't smoking at all and no leaks. Anyone got any ideas or a really big shoulder i can cry on?

Jay

Belts snapped - what was the servicing history like on the bike?

full ducatio dealer service history, just had new belts and full service, even had new tyres put on it when i picked it up on the 5th Jan.

Who did the servicing (or maybe you might not want to post that). Are you absolutely certain that they changed the belts? Was it a listed item on the service bill? What you describe sounds just like a belt failure especially if all has been fine and danny before the failure.

My commisserations - it could be very expensive :(

Hello and welcome.

I sincerely hope that it is not the same problem that I had.

At 4500 miles and thankfully under warranty my engine did as you described.

It turns out that a small grub screw in the crank had worked loose and machined itself to pieces destroying the big end bearing

:o

Good luck as i said I hope that I am wrong, it is a know fault "which only happens rarely so Ducati have done nothing about it" to quote a Ducati mechanic

It was done by Ducati Aylesbury. Where i bought the bike from. They have been really helpfull so far. I'm just wating for them to strip it and let me know what happened.

I took out the extended warranty thank christ, which should cover everything apart from fluids.

Hello GetawayRider,

Had this happen to my bike after 6 months ownership, so have some understanding how you must feel.

I hope this has not put you off the idea of owning a Ducati. My bike was not under any warranty, so ended up buying a second hand engine, which has served me well todate.


wise move . . . I hope you get things sorted .

regards

TopiToo

Its a known fault that the crankshaft oil gallery plug can back out land grind itself away on the crankcase untill it drops out leading to a suddden loss of oil pressure. I didn't know it affected 748's though and i thought the problem generally had been sorted years ago.

Re belts, the bike will often still run with one broken belt.

[Edited on 15-2-2006 by rockhopper]

sorry to hear about the bike, Good to hear you took out the warrenty. :eureka:

/ian

I haven't lost my faith in the bike and i'm not selling it once it's fixed. i'm not going to let something little like a blown engine stop my fun.

I work for Honda and so have been subjected to the expected **** taking and i told you so's from everyone, but i'll never go jap...... yet. (apart from my japanese car)

Besdides, lightning can't strike the same place twice, can it?

i just spoke to ducati, they are stripping my baby right now.
They haven't finished yet but the service manager said the rear piston is seized, he doesn't know why yet. When they know more they are going to call me.

how long do these things take to fix?

They take as long as it takes to get the parts! Sounds like new barrel and piston and maybe a crank. Could have to come from Italy and you know what they are like!

Just to worry you even further, i've heard of a couple of 748's that have just gone bang for no apparent reason. They have been fine after being rebuilt but the service people couldn't identify the reason for the failure in the first place.

Good man, thats what I like to hear. Hopefully your warranty will sort you out.
It would be intereresting to found out what had caused it to go though wouldnt it.

DC.:burn:

The good news is that once fixed you will effectively have an engine hand built by one person.

Mine now has 16500 on it and its great

ducati have just called me back. they've finished looking at the bike and the bottom end on the rear piston has seized.

I asked what could cause this and he said the normal cause is oil starvation.

i asked what would cause this and he said having no oil in it. (but there was plenty of oil in it).

i asked what else could cause oil starvation and didn't really have an answer.

i asked about the crank grub-screw thing and he said it definatley wasn't that and that problem was so rare he'd only ever seen one since the bikes were first sold.

he then said someone from the warranty company would come and inspect it - what for? surely a warranty is just a warranty? it breaks, they fix it right?

also reading the small print on my warranty i'm only covered up to £1000 - how much more than that could it cost????

the saga continues....

J

£2000+ more than that i'd bet.

[Edited on 16-2-2006 by weeksy2]

I take it that by 'ducati' you mean ducati aylesbury?

I'm with rockhopper here, sounds like you have a case of fitness for purpose rather than extended warranty.

The arguement that the dealer uses about there being no oil in it sounds spurious. If, indeed, there really was no oil in it you'd have to ask why given that it only had a full service from that dealer 1300 miles ago. Did they not put enough in? Did they leave the filter or sump plug loose? Did the engine burn it all? Sounds like a red herring to me, as if they're trying to pass the buck on to you for not checking the oil carefully enough. Anyway, as you say, there was enough oil in it. Trouble is that you can't prove that now because doubtless the oil has been drained during it's stripdown.

The issue of the oil galley plug working it's way out is thankfully not common, but it's nowhere near as rare as the dealer is trying to imply. It is a well known problem and has afflicted several bikes on this site and it's well known on nearly every Ducati forum you care to look at. Even if it was not the case for your particular engine, I would hope that a dealer would know about this problem and at least acknowledge it to be a strong suspect. Oil galley plug falls out, oil that's meant to get to the crank and pistons just ****es back into the sump without going anywhere and hey presto, no oil pressure and a seized engine.

If I were you I would be talking to the Citizens Advice Bureau and talking to the dealer about getting a truly independant assessment.

BTW: It's generally reckoned that this problem was ironed out from mid-2001 bikes onward, but given that Ducati's of any given year can have earlier parts in them if there are a few older parts lying aroud in parts bins and given that although your bike might have been registered in 2001 it could actually have been built several months previously it could be that your bike was built before this oil galley plug thing was sorted

[Edited on 16-2-2006 by Jools]

Just for info, I picked up a 1999 748 engine two weeks ago for £350.

But from what I can make out the dealer/warranty people should be sorting it out for you.

Absolutely bang on.

I would suggest that Getway enters into written correspondence only so that everything is recorded. Get some photos of the motor himself and get an independent assessment in any case. It will be small beer compared to the cost of repairs.

It is possible for oil starvation to occur even with plenty of oil: galley plug problem, oil pump worn out etc but, I would expect other components to be showing signs of it as well.

GetawayRider,

you have u2u.;)

Just got off the phone to them (Ducati Aylesbury).

I asked if the cost of repairs would be more than the £1000 warranty cover, they said 'definatley, will be 2 days labour plus parts.'

I asked who would be paying for the short fall. they said 'that is yet to be worked out, we can tell you tomorrow' (WTF !?!!?!! :flame: )

I said, i hope you don't think i will be paying for any of it, he again just said that he would be able to tell me tomorrow.

what could they be waiting for? why can't they tell me now who is paying for it? i certainly am not.

i paid top money for a dealer bike to make sure this didn't happen to me. Like some of you said, it's not fit for the purpose. Maybe i should dig my solicitors number out...

WTF !!!!

Would def be speaking to someone like C.A.B. for advice on this.....Def not right, you should'nt have to be putting your hand in your pocket for any of this....

anyone know someone who can do and independent inspection if i need it?

Whoa, steady.....

its easy for me to say that sitting here, but make a note on your file that you are giving them the benefit of extra time to confirm details.

Now, you have a file on the bike?
It includes: all info on the bike, its service history, the warranty, the detailing of the moments leading to unexplained breakdown, the diary movements of the bike, of your conversations with the breakdown company, and then all conversations with the dealer regarding what you - and also they, said?

Good.

Now, spend the rest of the afternoon just checking details again, and also follow up any info you might need later (DTI or CAB etc)

Then tomorrow, you could follow up with Ducati UK, if you dont get the service you should have from the dealer, and the bike fixed to your satisfaction.

Obviously you'll want to ensure the dealer knows you have the law on your side;)

Edited to add link:

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/saleandsupply.htm

DTI Enquiry Line: 020 7215 5000

[Edited on 16-2-2006 by AK and CK]

I hope you get it sorted!

Not the best welcome to Ducati ownership!

Chin up & remember 'persistence is everything'.....

Basically....
the legal standpoint has nothing to do with 'fit for it's purpose' cos there's a rule specific to the motor trade which serves the customer better in a case like this. Unless otherwise agreed at the time of sale, a motor trader is responsible for the vehicle for six months after date of delivery. Obviously, this responsibility doesn't extend to wear and tear, just mechanical realiability.

A ceased engine after 7k miles might not be considered normal wear and tear! So unless the dealer can prove that YOU did something wrong to cause the cease then he's responsible for fixing it. The onus is on the dealer to prove the fault is yours.

The warranty you took out probably doesn't cover anything that the law doesn't already cover, so the only one to benefit from you buying (for the first 6 months) it is the dealer! If the dealer wants to use the warranty to recoup some of his costs then fair play, but don't you be paying any top-ups for 'excess' etc.

......unless of course this is all your fault for draining the oil in an attempt to save weight!!!

I think i better leave this thread here until i get this sorted.

Thanks for all your advice. i post up what happened once it's all sorted.

Thanks

Jay

Dont worry

NBS996 is right. There is specific motor industry legislation to cover customers in instances like this for 3 months I think.

The best thing to do is to write to Ducati UK and send a copy also to Ducati Aylesbury, send them Recordrd delivery. Dont forget to keep a copy for yourself

Ducati UK and pretty good at sorting out disputes between Dealer and Customer.

Make sure Ducati Aylesbury dont try to use up your warranry on this.

I once bought a brand new 748 from Ducati Aylesbury and on my wat home from picking it up the throttle stuck open :flame:



James

Ducati UK were not much good to me, having rebuilt the engine under warranty and only when asked about the warranty offered on the "new" engine they offered me ONE MONTH:mad:

I'm no expert by any means but i've never heard of the oil plug problem happening on a 748. I've heard of a couple of unexplained blowups on 748's but they havent been caused by the oil plug.

I think Ducati would deny that its a safety issue hence there has never been a recall. Look at the Hyabusa subframe problem, thats potentially just as dangerous but there was never a recall.

I think that it can affect almost every Duc of a certain age. Wasn't this what happened to Guido's 748R at Cadwell TA2? And didn't Guido's previous 748 have the same thing happen?

I remember it going pop Jools but i don't recall the reason why.

I've not seen any plugs personally, but i've seen a few spinning the big end shells. No obvious reason either.
I'd guess that's what happened to this engine, not the plug. They've been fitting them much better since '99 or so.

Well after you have sorted this unfortunate incident out , you will have to join the BHC for a ride out as i see you live in the area. With all the doom and gloom you have nothing but good times ahead, with 06 to look forwards to . 4D

Have you rung them today fella ?

i spoke to ducati uk, as the bike is outside the manufacturers warranty there is not much they can do but speak to the dealer.

i have decided on a path to take and taking the neccessary steps. i'll be calling the dealer later on to get an update.

Yeah but, no but, yeah but DUK surely have some interest in the way that their accredited dealers deal with customers they just sold low mileage Dukes to?

I don't really think DUK have much legal responsibility for this. Your warranty and contract is with the dealer who supplied the bike and they should be your first point of contact. DUK may be able to put pressure on the dealer however.

Keep us informed.

Hello

just out of intrest does the DSC have any clout in matters such as this?

After all we are all customers of the Ducati world.


regards


TopiToo

rockhopper - i agree to a point - getaway rider should simply deal with the seller

what the seller does with duk is their own affair

it hacks me off because its things like this that affect the perception of unreliability and therefore affects us all in the long run re resale values