Reliability and Service Costs
 

Old issue I know but one I always think about.

I've always been used to having Jap bikes and never given the whole putting mileage on them a second thought but sometimes reading this forum it makes me more concious of putting miles on my 748.

I got it at 6500 and now I'm nearing 9000, I've covered this since I think it was July when I got it.

I was wondering what the general service costs are between my 2001 748 and an equivalent Jap bike.

Similarly the service intervals, I notice that the belts are something that people talk about a lot and yet I've never had to bother about such things on a Jap bike??

Thanks

I'm guessing your next service will be the 12k, this is quite a major service I believe.
It can be anything from £400-£500 upto £1000+. My 996 12k service was £780 but I think I had my trousers ripped down on that one.
Personally next time I will not be going to a dealer, I shall use a specialist as I think they can be much cheaper as long as nothing major is wrong with the bike.

£481 for a 12000mls at a independent specialist for my 748 with no problems .

Its a bit of an urban myth in my opinion...I mean, yes the servicing is a more expensive when its needed...thats just dealers taking the **** out of so called rich Ducati owners.

As Dave says, I never take mine to a main 'dealer' anymore...it always goes to an independant specialist...approx 25% cheaper and better service/care all round.

As for the servcing schedule, providing you have the main points done on the 24 months (12K mile) service...I think everything else can be done at home. Get the belts/valve clearances/alternator nut/fuel set-up...done by a pro...and then the rest do yourself.

This equates to one big service every 2 years (say £400-600 depending on what you have done)...the rest do yourself for pennies throughout the year.

Now if you take it in and they say you need new rockers...thats another story and something that you would need to address when/if it ever occured.

Not wanting to scare you but I have just paid £1,200 for my 18k mile service. Granted, the engine needed 2 new rockers and a new clutch basket / plates. Luckily the labour was covered on Barter Card, so actually paid out for parts (600 quid).

Still, it made my eyes water a bit!

Out of interest why do they cost so much more to service (apart from Rockers which I understand about).

I assume the Rockers don't play a part in the 999/749 series?

But the belts is something I don't get, do Jap bikes use belts? If so why do they not seem to be as much of an issue and if Jap bikes don't use them, then why do Ducati?

Thanks again

When did you last see a jap bike stripped of its front forks for a check over & new oil???



Chris.:burn:

just had my 12k done, new clutch plates and basket needed plus a couple of small bits, £670 at Motorapido. The only things not doen was fluid changes, I had all sussies rebuilt fairly recenmtly and need to chnage my brake m/cylinder anyway.

as an aside, I did not have my 996 serviced last year, just did a 'home job' of changing oil/filter every 6m and tighten bolts etc....then had it done at 2 years with belts...seemed fine to me as £700 over 2 years isnt that bad

oh and I covered about 4500 miles in two years

Fair point but that's really why I'm asking, what's the difference? Is more work done because it has to be as in it doesn't last as well? or because Ducati specify it needs more work done than other Manufacturers because they believe it will give a better service?

Similarly I still don't understand the belt situation? Why the belts aren't an issue on Jap bikes?

I love my Duke I'm just trying to understand the differences really.

Bradders: You seriously need to cover more miles than 4500 in two years!!! I used to do 9K a year on my Jap bikes, and that's on the Isle of Man!!! ;)

With regards to the belts I will let Nelly or Shazam give you the Techie lowdown on them, but just to say, They are critical to your ducati`s health:)




Chris.:burn:

Jap bike tend to run Timing chain or gears but even the chains have to replaced and the tensioner will go.

Most dealers of any make are selling bikes alot cheaper and don't make much profit, the only way they make money is by service costs.

It does make you sick tho when my Honda Civic will cost me £140 for next service !

The Jap answer to valve operation and synchronisation is to use chains to drive the cams instead of belts as 'We' do.
Reasons; weight reduction, quieter running, no need for an oil supply to lube chains, COST!!.
Downside is obviously the need to maintain them more, especially on models with high shock loadings caused by extreme cam ramps (sp, sps, R.)
I personally do all I can to my bikes apart from the tasks that require special tooling or expertise just to keep the costs to a minimum, you'd be surprised how much the average person can undertake and how much it knocks off your total bill. ;)

Its best to get the dealer to give you a rough estimate as to how much they think the service will cost. I was quoted around £450 for 2 year service on my 999r, when I came to pick the bike up they said it was £660. I told them they had previously quoted around £450 and just like magic the bill reduced to £500

Also some jobs included in the service shedule might not be necessary (depending on mileage since last service) eg fork oil, you can ask for these jobs to be left out in order to get the bill down.

P.S - there is an article on a 748 in this months Performance Bikes magazine that has done over 50,000 miles without missing a beat.

yep - ur right...hope to this year, already on the 'ring thing' got to stop thinking about depreciation and think about appeciation of riding!!!

Doesn't that one belong to a DSC member?

Don't forget that Ducati service intervals are at 6000 miles compared to 3500 to 5000 for many modern Japanese bikes.

("3500" inserted.)

[Edited on 21-2-2006 by Loz]

Only 4,500 maybe, but that's a hard 4,500 right Paul.

Yep - thats Moto748 (aka Fred)

C:)

Ducati servicing seems to be done on fixed price menus at franchised dealers - they're very over-inflated pricewise in my opinion. I would use an independent specialist - even so I think some of the costs quoted here are ludicrous. It's not like Ducati parts prices are that high - in fact they're often very much cheaper than Japanese equivalents. It's for these reasons that I will probably never buy another 4-valve Ducati...another customer lost then. :borg:

I forgot to say there's things you can do to mitigate costs such as all the basic stuff like filter and oils, brakes, brake fluids etc. You can save a remarkable amount of money that way and you can spread out those costs by scheduling one job for one month, another for the next etc so, your salary doesn't take a major bash at any one time. Anyone who works in a maintenance engineering capacity will understand where I'm coming from...planned preventative maintenance. Doing it all at once is not always best practice.

Of course, if your bike is under warranty then you're pretty much handcuffed.

Thanks for the info guys it helps to understand things better.

I've been so used to Jap bikes and never had any problems with any of them, and touch wood have had no issues with the Duke either.

I just know that I could always thrash a Jap bike and not give anything a second thought as they were pretty much bullet proof.

I always feel with the Duke I need to treat it with kid gloves and feel hard of putting miles on it for fear of getting to a point where it'll need an expensive service and it will have to just sit dormant until I can afford the bill.

I would like to be able to do most of the servicing myself and don't see why I should have a problem with it, it's just understanding how it all works and what needs to be done when.

I spoke to my Ducati dealer about doing the belts and was quoted £120 for the belts and the labour.

Could someone possibly list what they think a dealer would need to do and what they think I could do myself as in what doesn't need special tools?

Just a few points..

four valve belts are quite expensive, i can't find my receipts but they are about £60 a pair. I would say £120 for a belt change is a good deal.

A big service inlcudes changing fork oil, brake fluid, checking and adjusting valve clearances etc etc and can take two full days. Taking out the forks and stripping them is a job in itself.

Belts are quieter than chains, thats why most cars have cam belts becasue they have to pass more stringent noise tests than bikes.

Hear what your saying, but show me a dealer who strips the forks down...all they need is an oil change...with all the tools etc its a 90 minute job tops....and its a job anyone can do at home in 2 hrs.

[Edited on 21-2-2006 by Harv748]

The fact they're quieter has nothing to do with Ducati using them though surely?? Since my 748's the loudest bike I've owned and thats before I debaffled it.

Also I don't see cars having to have the belts serviced every 6K??

I've no problem with it but just can't understand why even the most recent 749's/999's continue to use belts??

All the service items listed sound very much the same as what would be done on a Jap bike?? Is it the service interval for the bigger jobs that's shorter?

Fork strips are the main reason for the labour charg in the big service, there is no point just pouring out the old oil and putting new in. the old oil sits in the bottom of the cartridge and valves, thats the bit that needs to be cleaned.

The fork job that makes the 12k service more expensive than the 6k ...

Note settings!
Remove and strip forks (completely)
safety clean all the parts
brake clean all the parts
air line clean all the parts
Fit new seals, dust covers (always worth doing on ohlins superleaky seals, option on the showa's)
re-assemble
set air gap
refit and put original settings back.

anything less is not worth bothering with - if a jobs worth doing...

One thing to note: Most Ducati dealers dont have the kit to do ohlins forks. Ducati DO NOT recommend servicing Ohlins forks (even on the 12k service) and dont supply the seals or tools to do it so check your dealer can do it! most prices do not make any allowance for the fact that they are not going to touch the forks!

In reality, if the bike has done less than 7/8 k (normal riding) and is less than 4 years old, its up to you if you need want it done, i dont really feel that you need it unless you are on the track.

A good 2 year service option is the 6k service + a belt change (no extra labour is charged to fit the belts as part of the 6k service is to check them anyway) so its just the price of the parts. Thats a good, sensible service option.

The rule : discuss the service you bikes needs with someone who knows what they talking about and dont just look in the Ducati book and read you the manual. If they take the time to discuss what your bike needs, they'll take the time to do the service right.

My 2 p's worth.!:sing:

Thats very true but there are not many cars that produce over 100hp per litre!

Ducati belts are shorter and narrower than most car belts and run around smaller diameter pullys which doesn't help. Plus the engines rev to 11,000 ish which most cars don't!!

I've no idea why Ducati use belts. Maybe becasue its cheaper and easier to design a belt system than a chain system.

Again...I hear what your saying Wilf...and what you do at Motorapido is just fine with me...but I don't believe for one minute that 75% of dealers (official or otherwise) out there who charge £500+ for a major service will be stripping the forks right back to the component parts.

1) Because they can't be arsed.
2) Because they don't know how/don't have the parts (as you say regarding ohlins)
3) They are rushed off their feet and don't have 5 or 6 hours to do this job.

I know for a fact a major dealer who when I asked if new fork oil was needed a few years ago for my 24 month service, they said...'we'll take the caps off the forks and have a look at the oil'. As it was they thought it was fine and did nothing...but about 3 months later I decided to get my forks resprung, and the guy who did it for me was amazed at the state of my 'internals'...basically the oil hadnt been changed since the forks lefts the factory and they were in a right state.

I also now know having done my DR350 enduro forks several times myself, that the fork oil can be changed as often as the engine oil if used hard.

[Edited on 22-2-2006 by Harv748]

[Edited on 22-2-2006 by Harv748]

Harv748,

Visual check of the fork oil, does that work for engine oil too? :lol:

Tottaly agree, information is power! its amazing how many customers want to book in there bikes and dont even ask what is going to be done!

Always ask what is going to be done, in detail, and if they dont really know when booking your bike, what are they going to do when your pride and joy is on the ramp???

I hear of dealers doing the 12k service in an afternoon!?!?! on a big service the bike is on the ramp for 2 days. The labour content is about 9 hours but you always get interuptions, find things that need a good clean, need to call the customer etc then you have to test ride it. It simply can't be done - properly and with care.

Amen brother...

gonna call you soon to book in for an FIM chip and dyno run.

mmmm fim ultimap... always a good idea! power to the back wheel too!!!!

see you soon dude.

W.

A few comments about servicing costs, if you've done a bit of research into Ducati ownership, and most magazines do mention high servicing costs, then you should be aware of this downside to ownership.

I'm sure Ferrari's cost more to service as well.

Yes is a pain to the wallet or purse but IMHO its the price i pay for riding something that gives me more pleasure than a Universal Jap Four, and when they're out of warranty use a good independant if you want cheaper costs or carry on using the main dealers that have a good reputation, (not the likes of Motorcycle City when they were Ducati dealers RIP :lol:)

Only my opinion but i did over 10,000 miles last year on 2 Ducati's so i know about the servicing costs.

Wilf makes a good point about doing the forks as part of the 12k service. When Nelly at Cornerspeed did my 12k service he reduced the price of the service because the forks and just been resprung and revalved therefore didn't need doing,
(but only after he had unscrewed the fork top to look at the oil:lol:)

[Edited on 22-2-2006 by BDG]

IMO it's only fairly recently that service costs seem to have got out of hand. Up until a couple of years ago I never paid that much for a service. I think the most I ever paid on a 748 was £250 and that included extra work I asked for above the std recommended service provided by Italia.

Since then costs seem to have spiralled. I used to laugh at people who maintained (sic) that Ducatis were expensive to service having experienced quite the contrary myself - these days I tend to agree.

So the Performance Bikes thing is out?!

I ain't seen it yet! :roll:

Servicing has cost me a few quid over the years, but my bike is still in bloody good nick. I have one maoe service per year, and change the oil and filters 3 times between.

I have the forks serviced separately, and they really don't need doing that often IMO. I get mine done about every 2 years.

Try this guy,
Totally genuine bloke who knows his onions, does great work for a reasonable price.
And no, I am not affiliated to the place in any way!!
http://www.bbsmotorcycles.co.uk/moto...servicing.html
Oh, his full service price includes belt change also..

[Edited on 25-2-2006 by final_edition]