Help! It seems I own a stolen bike
 

Dear all,

I've just had the Police vehicle inspection unit around who have formally notified me that my 888 has been reported stolen (after they confirmed the VIN on the bike). Its all a bit strange though as it (apparently) went missing while sitting on a trailer in September 2001 (yes that long ago). The stolen trailer was recovered yesterday (minus 888 obviously) and the police have just got involved. The upshot now seems to be that I have to wait to see who tries to claim the bike (usually an insurance company). The bikes history (as I understand it from documentation I have) is as follows;

Puchased by a main Ducati dealer in Sept 2001 who serviced it and MOT'd it. Sold it to owner 4 with a clean HPI check.

Bought by owner 5 in July 2002 who ran a (clear) HPI check.

Bought by owner 6 (me!) in May 2005 who got yet another clear HPI check.

The police are currently unsure if the bike was actually reported stolen in 2001.

The police basically say I have no claim against a previous owner so am I correct in assuming I'm stuffed if the person reporting the claim can prove it was theirs at the time. Is there anything I should be doing to make sure I can keep hold of this bike? It wouldn't be so bad except the blasted thing is nearly back together and I've spent a huge amount of my time (and a not inconsiderable amount of money) on it.

Any advice much appreciated!!!

Keith

Keith,

Go look at your HPI blurb again. I think you may have a claim against them if you loose the bike. Either way, very sorry to hear the tale.

Rgds, Rob

Thought so:-


Guarantee summaryAt HPI, we work hard to ensure that the data we receive and manage is the best available but no data source is perfect. That's why your HPI vehicle check includes the HPI Guarantee. Subject to the HPI Guarantee Terms & Conditions, the HPI Guarantee provides up to £10,000 reimbursement of financial loss you suffer arising from inaccurate or incomplete information we supply to you as part of the HPI Check. As you'd expect from HPI, the cover is the most comprehensive available today.

Here is a summary of the main conditions:

You need to carry out the HPI Check yourself, before you buy the vehicle - the Guarantee is not transferable.
You must supply us with the Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM) and the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) to be eligible for maximum cover available under the HPI Guarantee. The HPI Guarantee will not apply if we advise you that the VRM does not match the VIN, so make sure the information you supply is accurate (pay particular attention to '5's and 'S's, '2's and 'Z's).
Before you buy the vehicle, you must make sure that all vehicle details provided by HPI match both the vehicle and its accompanying paperwork, and notify us of any discrepancies. As a minimum, you must obtain and check the V5 registration document with us, using our Document Check facility, prior to purchase.
You must check that all the VIN markings on the vehicle match each other and the corresponding V5 registration document.
You must keep and produce to us on request a written receipt for your purchase, signed by the seller, containing the key information needed to identify the seller and the vehicle (e.g. the seller's name and address, the identity and mileage of the vehicle purchased, the date of purchase and the amount you paid).
The cover provided is based on the car's value. In the case where HPI provides incorrect data affecting vehicle title (such as theft or outstanding finance), the HPI Guarantee will cover up to £10,000, either in compensation or the costs needed to obtain good title to the vehicle (at HPI's discretion). In the case where HPI provides incorrect data affecting the vehicle's condition, the HPI Guarantee will cover up to £2,000 or 20% of the market value of the car, whichever is the lower.
The HPI Guarantee does not cover the stolen MOT service, nor a vehicle's descriptive information (including import status), mileage, value, or V5 registration document check.
The HPI Guarantee is valid for one year from the date of the check.
The vehicle must be bought and registered in mainland Britain (i.e. it excludes Northern Ireland). If it has been imported, HPI does not guarantee its history prior to arrival in this country.
If you make a claim under the HPI Guarantee, we reserve the right to inspect the vehicle and to make the final decision as to its condition and value.
You are advised to consult the full HPI Guarantee Terms & Conditions for full details of the cover provided. These are also printed on the back of every Certificate of Confirmation, where you will find details of how to register a claim.

Thanks Rob. Looks like I fully comply with the HPI T&C's above. I was assuming that they would just claim that database didn't show it was stolen at that time. Thats a big relief so I should not lose financially! Still need to make sure I keep hold of the bike though.

Keith

Nightmare dude - you might get compensation but, it doesn't replace your dream bike unless you can buy it new. Commiserations.

The plod were definately kosher as they had the proper van etc etc. They simply tracked me down as the registered keeper. Its apparently also possible that the stolen bike could have been a ringer of mine.

Keith

Sorry to hear about your predicament. The bench mark ruling applied in such cases is referred to as National Employers v Jones

http://www.car-crime.com/n_e_m_.htm

Which basically says that you can never buy true title to stolen goods. So despite how many hands the bike has passed through since it's theft it still belongs to the original loser. That title then passes to the insurance company if there is a pay out. That said you entered into a contract with the person who sold you the vehicle and you do have redress against them. They in turn have redress against the person they bought from, so on and so forth, down the chain. So if what you are saying is true a main dealer may end up paying out to one of the parties. It can get really messy. As for HPI, did you check both the VRM and the VIN when you did the check? HPI will try and squirm out of paying out so be robust. Also, insurance companies are approachable and will negotiate.

If you want any further info send me a U2U and I will explain why I have knowledge of the above.

[Edited on 8-3-2006 by chrisw]

:(

Thats a real bummer mate. As already posted, hopefully you will get a good comeback from the HPI check.

The last option of the "stolen" bike being an actual ringer of yours could hold some answers??:eureka:

Apart from your bike being the stolen bike, make sure that the details the local plod have, are the correct ones however unlikely.
Data on the PNC ( Police national computer ) is only as good as the person inputting it in the first place.

Hope it works out for the best mate.;)

DC.

Thanks Chris. I was really careful about checking so I will certainly be robust with HPI. The police said that one possible outcome would be that the insurance company would negotiate re title. If HPI will then reimburse that cost then all should be well! Fingers crossed.

Keith

Keith, sorry to hear your story. Guess it's everyones nightmare which is why we spend £30 odd on an HPI check.

I know it's already been said, but, I'm sure the HPI guarantee will be on your side.

Two things I would do :

1. log the issue with HPI now, your guarantee is for 12 months, get it listed now ... just in case.

2. If you have any nice bling or race bits on the bike consider getting them taken off and swapped for standard bits. At least if you have to hand the bike over you may be left with a box of nice bits to bolt on another bike.

Good luck mate.

[Edited on 8-3-2006 by Carbon749]

More good advice. Thanks guys! If I ultimately have to hand over the bike then I will certainly want to be as creative as possible about what gets handed back :devil:

Keith

OK, an email has now been sent to the main Ducati dealer to see if they will confirm what date they bought it and from who (I know the date they sold it). Also, just sent an email to HPI notifying then of the situation and reserving the right to make a claim if necessary.

I'm really grateful for all the feedback and am now looking forward to polishing off one of the last remaining decent bottles of red wine in my stock.

Keith

Be a shame if you had started a winter strip this week, and if the worse came to the worse all you could hand back was a box of various parts that may make up 75% of a bike :devil:

m8 what a downer
how come it's taken this long to come to light??
hope it works out

Keith, did we meet at Nellys the other week? You were picking up a wheel spacer?

Hope it all works out okay mate.

I'm rather hoping that the reason the theft didn't come to light for so long because someone is trying to pull some kind of fraud (and hopefully the police/insurance company will spot it)!

It definately wasn't me at Nellys the other week as the last time I visited him was last year.

Keith

Keith - U2U2U

Thanks Andy and everyone else. That bottle of wine really hit the mark and I (finally) feel relaxed! It has to be said that having people around that are willing to spend the time to help other people having a rough day is really great! At the end of the day its people that matter not inanimate lumps of metal!

Keith

Keith. I have been in this situation B4, and the deed of title had passed to the insurance company who paid out on the claim!
Up shot was, Five years down the line after they had paid out, they let me keep the bike and i had to pay an admin fee! £25.... mav

Hope it works out for you Keith - its a bastid!!

It'd be a real shame if you said you went out on track with it and wrecked the fairings and such like, cos then they'd only get the shell of the bike back.
That's a point? Is it now technically insured? And would you be compnesated if say half of it were stolen from you?

:ninja:I can hide it for you:ninja:

I notified my insurance company last night to make sure I've done everything I could. Its not back together yet so not rideable anyway but I am assuming my insurance would not be valid. Thus, if stolen at present I would probably be doubly in the poo.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Mav's experience is not unique!

According to the notification the police left, I'm not allowed to sell or modify the bike in any way without leaving myself open to prosecution etc. At present I have bits all over the garage and basement so hopefully this thing is resolved before Spring gets too much closer.

Keith

Tell the Police you wish to claim the police property act on the vehicle as you have paid out good money for it, once you have a police property act on a vehicle then you have more right to it if the insurance company decide to sell it and they will have to give you first refusal, as long as the guy or girl who it was stolen from doesn't do the same. That's if you want it back that is, might be worth it though as it would probably be a substancially reduced rate.
Scott

I've just got some more feedback from the police. It seems my bike has never been reported stolen or had any insurance claim made in respect of theft. Thus, its looking more likely that someone is trying to pull some sort of scam. Certainly, the person claiming the theft is now going to have to go some to prove it is their bike. I shall sleep a little easier tonight!

Keith

Good news.

;)

looks like it may well be going your way. Fingers crossed and all that.;)

keep is informed. hope it goes ok for you .there are some low lifes out there scum.