Brake Improvement Advice !
 

Hi guys

I'm sorry if this has been covered before but I am in need of some help with brakes.

I am still running stock setup all round and I have got to the point now where i just don't feel confident with this setup.

To get things moving along I have a small budget to improve the setup.

Where would I be best to spend the money first is the question ?

- Pads
- Lines
- Discs
- Fluid
- ?

If there is a good quality budget setup that offers improvement over stock I would really appreciate some help.

Any advice on what bits to go for?

Thanks as always!

[Edited on 12-3-2006 by cl0nd0n]

Before you do anything give your brakes a full service, brake dust builds up on the pistons, clean the pistons and grease them. Be careful not to pop the pistons out though.

Once clean, then braded hoses are a good upgraged, with HH pads.

Stock Brembos are good enough, by you could go for AP, however they do come at a premium.

Get a set of four pad brembo callipers first. P4 are they called? You can get them for around £200 a pair brand new including £50 worth of pads. Bit of a bargain if you ask me.

http://www.cbr900rrt.co.uk/garage/mo...kecalipers.htm

£120 each - bargain

First and foremost, if you've got no confidence in your original set-up then either there's a problem with your braking system or you're Noriyuka Haga in disguise.
All braking systems can of course be upgraded (at an inflated price) but you must make sure as stated by 'Desmo 748' that what you have is working at it's optimum, chances are that it may not be and that a little wise money could be spent in servicing your system, rather than splashing out on the latest 'carlos fandango' aftermarket system.
Naturally if the bling factor raises (by placebo effect) your braking confidence then who am I to advise otherwise.
Just as an afterthought, it may also be worth looking at your suspension set-up, as braking and susension work very closely in the confidence stakes.
Hope this helps. :)

I have a Discacciati master cylinder from www.redracingparts.com

The Discacciati MC comes with a brake switch,

If you get one buy a spare lever as you will never find one in a hurry if the worst happens.

Two lines to the previously mentioned p4 calipers awesome.

Before you go looking at calipers, check the mounting centres. There are 2 sizes, 40mm and 65mm. The 4 pad calipers are 65mm.
You can get plates made up to adapt them, but personally i'm not a fan.
If you are running 40mm calipers, then a set of Bendix MF compound pads and a radial master cylinder will help no end. Braided lines would be a good idea if you still have rubber lines. They will improve the feel but apart from that your rubber lines will be well past the sell by date.
In fact if you have rubber lines, then i'm 100% sure you'll have 40mm calipers.

Thanks!

I am without any doubt a 'nori' and I do agree it is likely that the stock setup needs some tweaking to ensure it is running at it's best! I will have a play at the weekend!

I think a clean, new pads and some braided lines will make a big difference for minimal cost!

Thanks again.

Thanks!

I am without any doubt not a 'nori' and I do agree it is likely that the stock setup needs some tweaking to ensure it is running at it's best! I will have a play at the weekend!

I think a clean, new pads and some braided lines will make a big difference for minimal cost!

Thanks again.

As the others have said, make sure it's all working first as the stock setup is pretty damn good. I'd replace rubber hoses with braided ones first as it's not that expensive, and while everything is apart you can clean the calipers and then top-up with fresh fluid and bleed it all through.

When you're cleaning the calipers, and you obviously have the pads out, check for glazing on the pads - you may see a rainbow sheen on them from certainly angles. You can clean this off by putting a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface and rubbing the pad across it until the sheen disappears.

If you still find it's not right, try replacing the master cylinder with a Brembo radial - either from a 999/749 (as you can pick these up quite cheap) or the pukka race one. If that's still not enough, you could swap to P4 calipers if you have the 65mm mounts (the distance between the bolt holes on the calipers) or you may want to replace your fork bottoms to allow you to get radial calipers at the same time. Then there's cast iron disks and different pad compounds to try.

I reckon a damn good clean and a flush of the fluid then topped up with some fresh stuff will do the trick though!

[Edited on 14-3-2006 by antonye]

Those 4 pad calipers are a bit step forward.
Went from a 996 BIP with std brakes to a 998r with std brakes up i.e. four pad calipers and IMHO there was a significant improvement in power and feel.

I can't really see how anyone could need anything more. On a local airfield riding day they consistently haul the bike down from 150mph to approx 70mph on one particular corner, lap after lap with no fade. Me arms give up before the brakes do!

Ray.

I will certainly try new hoses and a good clean first!

Can anyone recommend some reasonable braided hoses / pads that are cost effective ?

Remember it's only a 748bp so won't need top of the line stuff!

Has anyone done a step by step for blleding the brakes on the board before ?

Thanks for all the help!

These will fit - a bargain for a tenner on Buy It Now...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=8046276965

As for bleeding brakes, just follow the instructions in the Haynes manual, as it's amazing how well it works if you follow them right!!

HOW TO CLEAN THE PISTONS:

Required items: Brake cleaner, brake grease, copper ease, brick banding (the plastic strip thing that goes round cartons), face mask, gloves, cup of tea.

Take the callipers off as per Haines Manual.
Take brake pads out
Pump brake lever to push pistons outwards (* WARNING* be careful as they will pop out if you pump too far) You will see baked on brake dust to the surface of the piston, make sure you can see it all.
Spray with brake cleaner
Use brick banding, wrap round piston, and gently remove the build up, you will be able to push the pistons in with your fingers if they are clean. The pistons are brass I think, and they look nice when clean.
Once clean rub brake grease onto sides of the piston only (*WARNING* get the right type of grease from local bike dealer)
Dab a little copper ease onto the back of the pad only
Re assemble

DO NOT breather in the brake dust, it’s deadly, wear your mums gloves, and before you go for a ride pump the lever to make sure the pads bed in again.

Why clean the pistons? Because there is a little rubber seal that the build up of brake dust will trap itself behind if you replace with new pads and do not clean the pistons. The new pads push the piston further into the calliper, pushing the build up behind the seal – Outcome is that this will make the brakes less effective with new pads as it may seize a piston.

Optional – the back brakes on the 748 are there as a foot rest only, they don’t really work :) you can service them if you wish.

Oh take you time, you have all day.

Hoses; got 'HEL' on mine, fantastic finish, banjo bolts and copper washers are all supplied. fitted well and look great. check out their site heaps to choose from and all at a competitive price too.

Where are you? If you're anywhere near Eastbourne, I don't mind helping you out. :)

I must disagree with rockhopper about spending money on calipers first.

If you want fantastic brakes - Brembo radial master cyclinder, braded lines(any make), Carbon Lorraine or EBC HH pads.

I have done all the above and then added the brembo P4 calipers and after the master cylinder they made practicaly no differance.

The force applied on the discs from the calipers is dependant on how much fluid you can push down the brake lines. BIG radial master cyclinder means lots of fluid being pushed down the lines, and more force on the pads.

Highly recommended, just make sure you buy a pressure brake light swith as well if you intend to use it on the road.

hope this helps

Force on pads is actually dependant on hydraulic pressure caused by lever acting around a fulcrum. Actual fluid movement is minimal, it is a medium to transfer energy that's all.

I'll get me coat!!!!

Oh yeah, one last point. The stock brembo M/Cyl and lever ratio is, unless I'm mistaken, also 19 mm with a ratio of 16mm although it is not radial but linear. So the quantity of fluid displaced will be the same. No???

Got me coat, that's it I'm going!!!!

Not sure of the stock ratio, but the bore is 16mm, hence the big improvements from the radials' 19mm.
The 4 pads give more feel and bite due to them having more leading edges from the 4 pads vs.. the older 2 pads.
When you need to swap pads again, try the Bendix MF compounds. They are very good. Leave HH for dead. Comparable, maybe a little better than SBK3's but cheaper. They really are very good :)

Thought the 16mm bore cylinders were for single caliper set ups and 19mm for twin. i may possibly be wrong.
The only thing that i really noticed on changing over to radials was the fantastic feel and smoothness of operation.
Oh yeah and I had no beer tokens for the rest of the month.:puzzled:

Now that was most helpful! Many thanks Desmo748.

I am a little confused as to this brick banding stuff your talking about?

That plastic stuff that goes round big heavy boxes, about 20mm wide and as long as you want it to be.

I suppose you could use wet n dry but the plastic banding wraps round the piston really easy.