speeding naughtiness
 

i need some advice on a fixed penalty speeding ticket with 3 points
was guessed at speed by cop parked in a side road as 3 of us went past him
he didnt have any evidence which he made us aware of just his judgement
i have posted on pepipoo already for advice but wondered if anyone on here had any
mainly want to know if he could just use his judgement
we didnt challenge his decision at the side of the road because of cans ,dark visors and small plates.
whats the score likely to be?:(

in the immortal words of Jim Carey (Liar Liar)

"stop breaking the law ********!!!!"

:bouncy:

Khushy

I was under the impression that 2 police officers could estimate your speed and this would be taken as evidence if they decide to do you.

i would definitely challenge it.but be careful next time you will end up losing you licence:D

I am sure someone will be along soon to advise properly but I would definately challenge it.

A couple of years back my mate had to go to court when his speed was 'estimated' by an officer travelling in the opposite direction. Was thrown out when it got to court as no evidence was offered.

The officer is correct in that he can estimate your speed however he is in need of some form of corroboration for an effective prosecution.
This corroboration can take the form of an "approved device" - laser, VASCAR, Provida, - his speedometer if following you or another officer sat / stood with him agreeing that you are in excess of the speed limit.
Without this corroboration he is banking on your paying the ticket and taking the points.
IF all of the information you have posted is correct and nothing has been omitted, there is insufficient evidence for a successful prosecution and I would ask for the case to be heard at Court.
However if he has you on the VASCAR or similar you're stuffed!!!

[Edited on 18-4-2006 by Rushjob]

"we didnt challenge his decision at the side of the road because of cans ,dark visors and small plates.".............

ok, no speeding......................just the £2000 fine for these then!
:lol::lol::pig:

telll the court that because you had noisy cans on it SOUNDED like you were speeding but you wernt!!!
better than speeding innit!??lol:burn:

Also because of the dark visor you could not read your speedo clearly ;)

Based on the above comments from the clever people I would fight it if the cop was on his own and had no other evidence.

would he have put on the ticket estimated if he KNEW and not just guessed the speed.
if he had our speed on vascar would he have said and showed us the evidence?

if we challenge to have this heard in court do they have to disclose the evidence in advance and would it likely to come to court if they have none?

so where were you, time of day, location etc........ what was the limit, what speed has he asessed you at, and what were you really doing?

[Edited on 19-4-2006 by andyb]

we were just outside bala lake in wales
the speed limit was 30 and we reckon we were doing over this speed but cant confirm as none of us were looking at speedo
it was early afternoon and the road was quiet

and that's it ?
no endos, wheelies, giving the bird as you shot past ?

Take it on then.

the lad who was at the front did indeed pop a small wheelie
but the 2 of us behind did not
we all got the same 3 points and 60 quid fine

go see a solicitor.
can you not get access to one through work or similar ?
at the end of the day you know you were speeding, but if you think there is a bit of wriggle room and want to take it on. Well that's up to you.
no guaranties though. and if you fail you could end up with bigger fine and points tally ?
sounds like it would be worth discussing further though

If there's no corroboration i.e. just him on his own, I don't think they've got a leg to stand on.

You've lost my sympathy mate. No excuses in a 30 IMHO. Especially as one of your group was popping a wheelie, that amounts to antagonisation. Take it on the chin.

How many points do you have on your licence at present? If you've got 9 then I can understand your dilemma, however you've really got to weigh up the stress, hassle and unnerving experience of a day in court. Or as you already know you were speeding, £60 and some points which may or may not affect your insurance premium. The whole idea of the points system is just to put a warning shot over your bow and make you consider your driving/riding. It is at the end of the day a minor road traffic offence, driving without due care and attention or heaven forbid attempting to pervert the course of justice are much more serious. Completely agree with Rushjob in what he says regarding corroboration but at the end of the day its your decision and you don't seem to be too sure of the evidence against you. Those witness boxes are lonely places...

Don't wish to put a downer on things, but a lot of the articles in the press regarding speeding and the ease of which you can get off are written to sell papers and are guilty of a lot of misinformation. If you're going to fight these things you have to know your law or be able to pay someone who does.

Ian

Speeding around Bala, the cop / bike magnet?

Silly boys!

1mph over in N. Wales will get you a ticket. Unless you get the local papers which tell you where the plod will have their mobile speed camera on any given day.

I'm now a reformed character ( Old age ) but my view was always ''Smile nicely and accept the ticket''. Just think of all those times when you've got away with over the ton in a 30 when you've been chasing someone, and be glad you weren't caught that time.

It's up to you of course, but from experience I think Rob is spot on with his ''Lonely place '' comment as the court will normally take the comments of a Police Officer as the whole truth - as in fact they normally are, whether we like it or not.

Phil

Nah fight it mate...Plead not guilty the plod will have to go to court, get your breif to throw a pen across the court room and then ask said plod how fast it was travelling ;)

That should do the trick

think of all the times you got away with over a ton in a 30?? WTF

I fought my speeding ticket, I was done on "vasscar" but there were major mistakes made in the process of reporting me, distance I was clocked over, paper works etc etc.

All this was taken in to account and I recieved 6 points for doing 128mph instead of a ban ... so it was a positive result as far as I was concerned.

BUT, afterwards the solicitors said that I was never going to get off scott free as it would have meant the court siding with me and confirming that the police officer in question had made mistakes in clocking me and the process carried out. That was never going to happen because at the end of the day I was speeding, that could not be disputed. Everything else was just "stuff" that did not detract from the fact that I was speeding.

All that said, I would contact a solicitor and seek their advice. You are enitled to a 30min free consultation with any solicitor. At the end of the 30 mins you should know if it's worth fighting or not.

Well...in my callow youth I figured that if you were going to run a red light then the faster you went the safer you were, as you spent less time in the 'danger zone'.

Only kidding Glyn. However it never ceases to amaze me at the speeds some riders think are 'safe' on A & B roads,mainly at the weekends.

[Edited on 20-4-2006 by philthy]

Any solicitor will be charging well in excess of £60 at court regardless of a 'free 30 min consultation'. As I said just depends how badly you don't want those 3 points. The points only last for 3 years in any case. C'mon how many points have you got?

i currently have 3 points shown on licence but they were from march 2003 so should not count.

Having spent 15 months living in Gwynedd (I've now moved back to Cambs), I was staggered by the number of "Arrive Alive" mobile camera vans the N Wales police operate. They're everywhere and sneaky too, sometimes staying for 15 minutes before moving on to another patch. Bala is a favourite haunt for them, especially at the top of the hill (for those who know the area). I got done in my car for doing 33mph in a 30 limit. I thought I was doing 30 but there you go! You can give it a go but be prepared to lose big style! My advice would be take your £60 + 3pts. Just my two penneth!

If he is a traffic cop, you dont stand a chance

normal bobby? tell him to poke it!

about 2 years ago i was clocked by 2 traffic coppers doing 78 in a 30 in the early hours comming home from work.
they said they was going to report me for the offence.
true to thier word 6 months later i got a court date, i knew i was going to get banned, it was a pretty silly thing to do and i accepted it, but then 3 days later i get another letter saying its been cancelled due to the fact i didnt sign anything at the roadside.
very very very very very very very lucky escape.

[Edited on 24-4-2006 by Wave]

I got stopped doing 42 in a 30 one day in a MPV. The copper said the usual and I was polite and all that. It was a lapse of concentration on my part as the road had just changed from a 40 to a 30 and I had not slowed down quick enough. He asked if I had a clean licence to which I said I did and then said you will be popular when you get home. I said not as pupular as I will be with my Govenor to which I pointed to my array of ariels on the roof together with the big numbers and red spot painted on it(Unmarked prison vehicle) He then glanced inside to see the phones and trackers and handcuffes and put his top back on his pen, sighed and said have a nice day gentleman.

Its not what you know its who you know.

Lucky Lucky Lucky:bouncy:

There are times when simply being on a bike is going to get you "done", be it 5mph over the limit or 40. If the local police boss has a bee in his bonnet for one reason or another and he decides its open season on bikes then it's easiest and cheapest to just accept it as another form of taxation.....

Got a fixed penalty and 3 points for 44 in a 30. "Hmmm speeding in a 30, I never do that.." 99.9% of people on here (or anywhere) who say that are lying. It's a fact of life, you may not exceed a 30 limit everywhere but you do it more often than you choose to admit. Andyb does it, Rushjob does it, the head of the bleedin' ACPO does it, your gran does it. When was the last time you drove along an open main road with a 30 mph speed limit, no traffic holding you up and exactly 29mph showing on the speedo? It doesn't happen (or so infrequently that the car doing it has a huge queue of vehicles built up behind them)...

And my 44 in a 30.... 300 yards away, with a hand held LIDAR gun (no tripod, no resting it on the car just pointed in my direction) whilst riding in a heavish evening traffic, buses, cars , lorries etc all going the same speed... Only other vehicles being stopped were bikes..

All very good but whats the score with the ten percent error on speedos?
If Ian is gonna get done for speeding then has the copper been validated recently? Can he "guess the speed" to within ten percent?

Best of luck mate and yes I do hope you get off with it.

a system that has been used in the past on known static positions is for the officer to have 2 prominent landmarks in view, as the vehicle passes one landmark he starts counting, as the vehicle passes a second landmark he stops. Times under a pre equated figure=ok
times over it and you are probably speeding.
not an exact science but it lets him pull ya and can do a character assessment from there. ie: likelihood of person to speed+type of vehicle+time past landmarks=make cheque payable to Chief Constable

www.abd.org.uk

:biaggi: