Clutch Woes
 

Is it just my clutch master cylinder that requires frequent bleeding, or is it everyone's ?. It's a 2004 999BP, it works fine after bleeding it at the master cylinder, but it has only been about 1000 miles since I last did it. This can't be right can it ?

Does anyone know of a long term fix please

ive just had my slave cylinder replaced as it started leaking. keep a close eye around it for fluid.

That doesn't sound right to me. If it's till under warranty, I'd get it back to the dealer.

Jon

Just a thought but what is prompting you to bleed the clutch, for example are you having difficulty in selecting gears??


Regards

DaveO

I have been through 2 already on my 2003 999s::(

Dave

I took it out at the weekend, when I set off all was normal. After about 60 miles I noticed that when the clutch lever was pulled in there was very little initial resistance and it didn't feel as though anything was happening until about halfway through its total travel. The biting point had also moved closer to the bars though I could still get neutral without too much difficulty. There was no 'creeping' whilst in gear with the clutch disengaged so it obviously wasn't dragging

Upon getting it home and bleeding the master cylinder it was immediately noticeable that there was resistance as soon as the lever was pulled in. The biting point had also moved out to the point where the lever was almost fully released

I reckon that if I had continued riding it then I would have lost the use of the clutch altogether

Its out of warranty but going in for a 2 year service in the next couple of weeks, so they should be able to find out what is going on

I don't think that the plates are worn, I suspect that its sucking air into the system somewhere

Its worrying that people are having replacement slave cylinders fitted already. Do they gradually fail or do they just malfunction without warning ?

I think your correct defo air getting into the system, pretty simple system really. Is the fluid level dropping indicating a loss of fluid?

You can check the banjo connections and look for signs of fluid loss. The only problem I have had was the slave cyclinder seals failed and I had a similar experiance although the fluid leaked from the bottom not helped buy a missing cap headed bolt.

In simple terms the slave cylinder looked to me like a bellows/piston type of system that pushs the operating rod out overcoming the clutch pressure plate springs disengaging the clutch then returning back under spring pressure when the clutch lever is released. In my case I suspected on the return cycle a small amount of air was being sucked into the cyclinder progressivly getting worse until you bleed it and it all starts again.

The slave cyclinder has what looks like a Viton O seal and the operating rod has little black O seals preventing oil leaking around the cyclinder or traveling along the rod into the clutch. If these are still tight it will explain the lack of a visable oil leak.

You could back off the slave cyclinder securing bolts slightly give it a tap and see if you get fluid dripping out.

Just a few thoughts maybe Nelly can help you?

I understand people replace the oringinal slave cyclinder for an after market item which improves feel and lightens the clutch feel slightly. I have seen these in various colours for sale on ebay cheeper than the OEM item.

Regards

DaveO

it sounds like it is not adjusting when the clutch wears, it's not somthing stuped like the span adjuster,
when the leaver is let out it should draw in new flud from the resevoir but if the piston is not returning fully it cant adjust for the clutch wear.
when you bleed it you fix it till the clutch wears.
:burn::burn:

It is not uncommon for the original slave cylinders to let fluid back past the single "O" ring when applying pressure.

Nelly up at Cornerspeed has designed a new type of slave with greater surface area for a lighter action, and three "O" rings to prevent just this from happening.

I happen to know he has some new stock coming in later this week, but not sure how much they are, though I seem to recall they are less than a ton.

Suggest you drop him a line or give him a call.

Thanks for all of the responses. Its going in for a belt change next week and a check over, I'll get them to inspect the seals in the slave cylinder as they sound as if they are the prime suspects. Will update the post with the diagnosis

Me and the wallet agree that its not like running the old R1 :(

Okay, serviced now, the clutch slave cylinder had given up the ghost. It was replaced for £65. They cannot be rebuilt as its a sealed unit, as is the master cylinder which is £85 to replace apparantly.

According to Italsport in Bury, Lancs (highly recommended) its the first time that they had known one of the new type of sealed units let go. I almost felt pleased with myself !!

As Dave0749 says the sure fire sympton is hydraulic fluid visible when you loosen off the slave cylinder.

New belts installed and slave cylinder replaced for a reasonable £330

JonB

Glad you got it sorted thanks for the recommndation living in Southport myself I may run the bike over to Italsport.

If and when I get the bike back that is :rolleye:

Regards

DaveO

After covering 150miles yesterday I limped home with engine still biting with the clutch pulled right back to the bars. I tried to bleed the clutch but no luck there and if I pull the clutch lever in and out I can hear hissing from the slave. Sounds like another replacement.:mad:

I got my bike fixed yesterday at Louigi Moto. There was air in the system and it needed bleeding at the nipple in the resovoir. The guys at Louigi Moto are tops in my book, cant recomend them enough!:burn:

"I got my bike fixed yesterday at Louigi Moto. There was air in the system and it needed bleeding at the nipple in the resovoir. The guys at Louigi Moto are tops in my book, cant recomend them enough!"

only cause I showed em where the bleed nipple was in the MC!!!!


:roll:

So it was you with the dodgy clutch, Tortuga! :)

I was waiting for louigi to deliver my bike, but he said hwe had to sort out a clutch first.

Sounds like if you run a 999, you need to buy a brake bleeder to keep on top of it.

Seriously, it isn't good enough. I run a stock slave and master cylinder on my 748, and I can hardly recall any hydraulic issues with brake or clutch (except the crap rear brake, fair enough :) ) in 54k miles. I bleed the brakes occasionally, but I never touch the clutch hydraulics between services.

Hmmm :puzzled:

Did the guys check the slave cylinder over, or did they just bleed the master. The air has got into the system somehow and chances are, without finding the source, it will do so again - soon !

Mine was fine for a while after having bled it, but the problem quickly reappeared

A tell tale sign is that hydraulic fluid is visible when you remove the slave cylinder. It may be worth a quick look before you set off for a long run

Moto 748, I take it your bike was the yellow 748 with monster mileage?
It seems your very local to me, small world!

I have had problems with the clutch since the slave was replaced 12 months ago at a dealer, It was ok at first but the bite on the clutch crept further and further back until on a thrash to Abergavenny it became almost unridable. It went back to the dealers and after they had looked it over they said that one of the nuts was loose and wasn't done up properly. However once I collected it it still did not feel right, the clutch was light and the bite weel back on what it used to be. But they said it was ok! Well after a good ride Sunday it became worse and the bite by the end of the day was back on the bars. Louigi guys think it was never bled in side the resovoir and so thats why it never felt right after the loose nut incident.
Time will tell and fingers crossed.
Sorry about the delay in getting your bike back moto 748, Louigi wasn't impressed that it was raining in Bristol anyway as I arrived slightly damp and he said he had to take a bike to where I had just come from. I said to him oooooyyyeaaahhh very wet there, best fix this and wait until it eases off.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yes, that's mine. We met at the Bristol Italian Auto Moto thingey.

Anyway, it doesn't kill louigi to actually ride a bike for once! :)

It wasn't you riding through Whitchurch Sunday was it? I passed a yellow un in Whitchurch on my way back from the Ducati meet at Wrantage/Taunton.:roll:

No. My bike was a bit poorly on Sunday. All sorted now.

My clutch has just started playing up (999 2004). The lever action is perfect until I have cause to hold the clutch in for fairly long periods ie. 1st gear in heavey traffic. Then the clutch 'biting point' gets progressively nearer the bar until finally the clutch drags and prevents me from selecting neutral!
At this stage if the lever is released and pulled back a few times the clutch behaves normally again. I haven't noticed any oil leaks but admit I haven't removed the slave cylinder.
So, do these symptoms mean the master cylinder neads bleading (and is this just a temporary cure) or that the slave cyl needs replacing or both or something else.
Thanks

Trig

Sounds like trapped air which is expanding when the temperature is rising thus giving you the above as described. The heat transfer from the engine is greater in traffic with no cooler air flowing over the slave cyclinder. More importantly why is their air in the system, bleed it and if this happens again check for air ingress best starting point is the slave cyclinder itself.

Regards

DaveO

Trig

Sounds like trapped air which is expanding when the temperature is rising thus giving you the above as described. The heat transfer from the engine is greater in traffic with no cooler air flowing over the slave cyclinder. More importantly why is their air in the system, bleed it and if this happens again check for air ingress best starting point is the slave cyclinder itself.

Regards

DaveO

Dave

Why does the problem go away (in traffic), straight after a couple or so pumps of the clutch lever when the bike is just as hot?

I have removed the slave. The clutch push rod and in the bore of the slave are wet with blackish oil, everywhere else is bone dry. Is this normal or has the slave seal just started to leak? :(

Clutch help, anyone????

Bike has been into dealers and they have fitted a new slave, bled the system and tested the bike. I went to pick it up and I still have the same problem :mad:

The mechanic wasn't told the symptoms by the guy that booked the bike in! The mechanic says that only a leak can occur from the slave and not a pressure drop. The pressure drop has to come from the master cylinder end. I don't understand this statement. Anyway they are changing the master cylinder tomorrow - I hope that sorts it as I am off to the Alps next Friday!

master cylinder deffinately,

All is well again. Changing the master cylinder finally fixed it.

I have had similar clutch problems.

I have bled the system, I have fitted a replacement slave cylinder, I have replaced the bush in the centre of the clutch (something that apparently gets clogged up and makes you loose feeling in the clutch), I have re-bled the system and everything was fine setting off this morning. Neutral easy to find. Bite point was more than a fingers depth away from the grip. No problems.

By the time I got to the City it was back to its old self. Couldnt get into neutral and had to pull the lever almost back to the grip for bite.
I have no visible signs of leakage - Anyone any ideas please?

For those interested the problem turned out to be one too many spacing plates in the outer edge of the basket. Two on the inside and two on the outside. It should only be one.

I had two on the outside which meant that when cold I could just find neutral, when the plates heated up, clutch became stiffer as it was dragging and no chance of finding neutral.

Out with one plate, neutral easy to find, no longer sounding like a bag of nails, sounds like a Ducati!!

One happy customer.