2 classes for 2007
 

thinking out loud really and haven't though it though too much but thinking ahead to 2007:

if numbers seem similar to this year;40ish; how about just simply making it one class up to 620cc but running a novice championship in it too. i think im right in saying there are a number of people moving up to 620 anyway, most of the 'original' riders will lose novice status soon if they havent already. that way anyone wanting to come in on a 583 cheaply as a novice will still have something to aim for and it will ensure good grids and save all the faffing about with one grid/2 grids etc etc. if its oversubscribed then its down to people getting their fingers out with entries or getting bumped onto another grid for the slowest as per all the other racing classes.

Best stick to racing, mate

Drinking is dangerous!!!!

I think we'll have one grid, but we need to retain the 2 classes (without restriction). Basically as we are I suppose.

It may be nice to have a delayed start for the 583's so that they get their own grid?

If anything 583's should go first to avoid getting lapped? Then the faster 620 riders are the more than capable of passing the less expierienced on slower bikes, whilst the other way round will have experienced riders on slower bikes trying to safely take slower people on fast bikes?

Reverse grids :devil:

That would work :lol:

Its a shame we cant have two classes and two grids, it may have influenced my decision with which bike to buy as the 583's really struggle against the 620's in speed circumstances. If we only get one grid, anyone who needs to be competitive needs a 620 and the 583's will drift away.

COME ON GUYS, LETS HAVE SOME MORE 583'S !! £2-3K will convert you from trackdayer to racer !!!

Andy

I agree.

it would be most difficult for those who had 583's and are only just losing their novice vest to then be expected to pay out for 620 bikes Dickie. there would be no real market for the 583s that could only be used for 1 or 2 seasons only i think.

status quo unless we can really get enough for 2 grids

and then plan for 2008 to let the 695's in?:eek:

Ooops, are we supposed to wait until 2008? :o

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:eek:

;)

:lol:

I thought you were running an 800 Dom? :D

How rude!!

Did I make the 1000 look that slow? ;)

It's a 750 and you know it, so stop rubbing it in...

I made it 24 Class B bikes at Cadwell and 16 class A which looks like it will be the type of figures for the rest of the season
so what we need for seperate grids is more class A bikes or drop them and just have 583s with a novice championship contained within it and settle for one grid

Lets face it we have heard DDs go on about how much we contribute to New Era's income but when it comes down to it Class B contributes more (up to 50% more) and still get the worse end of the deal.
Phil who more often than not wins class B gets very few chances to cross the line first and get the deserved recognition for his win, many a Class B bike is baulked off a mass start by the more powerful 620s that win the drag race to the first corner, and then have to start taking chances in corners to pass people they out qualified.

I have again entered both classes at Donington (yes the entry has been sent) in an attempt to bolster the numbers in Class A to try and help get seperate grids, but based on Oulton I have included a letter asking if its not possible for me to race in two seperate DD classes then just enter me in Class B and also in SV 650s if there is room.

You're dead right Kev.

I vote we drop Class A :lol:

Kev is right.......

Class B grid contributes more bikes to the grid than the Class A.....

therefore surely Class B should get precedence.!!....as kev rightly said the class B riders suffer more so on a combined grid than the class A riders....

its about time Class B was the focus ..this is where the numbers are.!

well said kev.

The 583 riders should be grateful that we allow them on the same grid as the 620s!!! - I dunno, ideas above their station.

Some of them even have the gaul to upset some of the 620s by getting in their way - damned cheek of it. ;)

Tim

its about time Class A wannabe's realised there pipe dreams and moved into the WSB arena.?..then Class B can get down to some real racing....instead of exchanging blows with the handbag swingin, bling adding, gp wannabe,pipe dream tt riding, gucci wearing,little flowers in the 620 class...................

You know when you get a really annoying fly buzzing around you that makes a lot of noise and just gets on your nerves, and you wonder why are they there? That's 583s that is!!! ;)

How about a promotion/relegation system?

The top 5 Class B riders get to swap their bikes with the bottom 5 Class A riders?

Incentives all round then.......

Well, I'm hoping to be back at some point this year so 1 more for the Gucci's.

The day the 583's are faster around the track than the 620's they should get grid priority ;)

The faster class should get priority, it's nothing to do with who or what etc. IMO if we're going to share track space the 583's should be let go 10-15 seconds after the 620's go - like the 620's were with the hornets and the 583's with the CB's.

Lighten up skippy ;)

TP thats too easy..!! come on fella we must be able to over complicate it somehow................*sigh*

it would mean 2 grids and a delayed start of 10 seconds...!................WOW...i got mind melt...

Well if its going to be one grid more often than not then we should look at qualifying criteria if grids are over subscribed.

Do we go for 1st past the post on entries

Or

If 60% of entries are Class B then allocate 60% of the available grid slots to Class B and 40% to Class A and then let the class entrants quallify for those grid slots

Or

have a cut off qualifying time based on the pole setter in each class
Eg, 107% cut off so if you are on a class A bike and you are over 107% behind the pole sitter in Class A you don’t make the grid and like wise class B, so if you are on a class B bike and you are over 107% behind the pole sitter in Class B you don’t make the grid

Bear in mind that grid sizes vary, and already there has been an out cry about going to meetings such as they hold at Castle Combe with a indication that some would rather race at Mallory and some would happily go to Pembrey

Castle Combe =42 solo starters allowed
Snetterton = 40
Cadwell = 38
Oulton = 40
Donington = 40
Pembrey = 36
Mallory = 32

So if we are looking at one grid for Mallory split 60/40 in favour of class B (based on this years entries) that would be 19 Class B bikes and 13 Class A bikes

I can't see much off the above helping attract people to the series, we really should be looking at how to get more people involved to enable us to have 2 grids

eh???!!! Big assumption there! :rolleyes:

Now do some bloody work you crackheads!

quote- "COME ON GUYS, LETS HAVE SOME MORE 583'S !! £2-3K will convert you from trackdayer to racer !!!"

Andy

Yeah then as i see it in the trackday section, you could move up to the inters group on the practice trackdays......:lol: :devil:

You won't have 140 odd bhp to hide behind on a DD bike Andy ;)

:D

Is going fast about horsepower then o instructor one?:frog: :eek:

u r clear evidence to the contrary....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wish i could be taken as seriously as a real racer................

I'm not convinced a 'split' start would help with the series currently, mostly due to the difference between the 'fast' and the 'back runners' in the series.

Phil/Andy/Griif etc would be catching the other guys after 1.5 laps.... Now, IMO it's different for Phil and the lads to be trying to overtake the 620's who are farily close to their pace, as they'll be running simillar braking markers, turn ins etc etc... To overtake some of the back markers, lets face it they have less mid corner speed, likely the lines are not as good, and power out of the corners isn't as good, i think it would cause tooo many issues.

Becauseof the wide range of speed in DD series, i think it's a bad idea.

2 grids obviously is the ideal scenario, but the current system is the best of the rest...

(no, before anyone has a dig at me, i'm NOT having a pop at the back runners)

Priority must go to the class with the more entrants, not with the fastest bikes. It's called democracy.

In France, 217 years ago today, we took possesion of the Le Mans Control tower (or maybe it was La Bastille) and started cutting heads of the 620s owners (or maybe it was the Lords)...

:D

That's precisely the reason that it's a good idea!!

The faster 583's will find it far easier to get past the slower 620's BECAUSE they're not so late on the brakes or early on the throttle.

It's harder to pass a 620 that is more your pace for that very reason - they're running your pace.

The only downside I can think of from running a delayed start, is that more 583's are likely to lose a lap - as the 620's will have a 10-15 second head start, so will come around to lap people quicker.

Otherwise, I think a delayed start is better for everyone.

But its hard to pass a 620 on a 583 that is running marginally slower than you as they get to the corner first, this means yor lap times drop to the same as theirs and you effectively wait for them to make a mistake, while the 620 you passed a lap a go manages to catch back up with you and blast past you on the straight.
As the slower class B runners have paid the same as everyone else to enter either a 6 or 8 lap race then that is what they should be entitled to get, but giving faster bikes a 15 to 20 second head start futher reduces the chance of this happening when compared to single grids.

If having split starts then ideally the 583s should be at the front of the grid as it will be easier for riders on 620s to pass those they catch up with.

As I said before if running combined grids the 620s a row or two behind the 583s still get to the first corner ahead as they win the drag race, not only do they have more power but the 6 speeders can effectively run a lower first gear for better acceleration off the line.

And when a rider on a 620 starts riding defensively to keep the 583 behind its a real pi55er

Its a shame we have lost so many riders from the series already this year as with the new entrants that have now joined or are joining the series we may have stood a chance of seperate grids.

slightly off topic... maybe another thread....

Reasons why ?

I can only say that my experience of riding a slower and smaller bike in S-o-T classes was that it was a pain despite split grids, delayed starts etc. Inevitably, slower riders on faster bikes resulted in traffic jams, near misses and lost lap times. On several occasions I lost places because of it and in the end resorted to having to be pretty hard on some riders in order to make a move stick so, I could get on wth the job of racing/chasing after a fellow minitwin rider.

Separate races is the only sensible solution.

they can only ask for it if they fill more spaces on the Grid mate... without that, NE are going to tell them to ****** off as they have done most of this season.

Desmo Due probably has more first timers racing than most other classes, so there are no doubt some riders who try it and decide it isn't their bag for whatever reason. They still get the 'I raced bikes' kudos to dine out on for a few years if they wish to.

Everybody tells you how much racing costs, but it is still a shock when it really does cost that much or more, so there must be some people who plain run out of budget.

As a series that is geared primarily towards the absolute beginner, it is also possible that some people will get the bug and move on to different classes.

I don't see how setting the 583's off first would ever be a sensible option.

Can you imagine 15+ 620 riders carving through a field of novices on slow bikes?

You're clearly not well :lol: