Racing Ducati series
 

Does anyone have any details on the Ducati series racing? Monsters, 900ss & water cooled twins. I'm interested in getting back into racing so it's either KRC or ducati. MRO just to expensive and at the young age of 37 with family, well I enjoyed when I did...

wait for it......

incoming......

.....The DD chaps will soon have you recruited !!!!

dont forget your lobotomy..........:o :frog:

If you tell us where you are, one of us might let you have a look at our dd bikes.

I'm in Ruislip just down the road from daytona's - yea I know poor me..... Cheers for the web site will read and digest.

How come there are 748 / 916's shape ducati's in the picture?
Is there another series running somewhere, last year whilst marshalling at snetterton KRC 6hr I saw lots of Ducati's liquid and air cooled in the paddock form the day defore.

They're all 583 or 620 Ducati's. You're allowed to fit a fairing and the 916 style fairing fits on without too many problems, so it's a popular choice.

The DD championship was at the Snetterton KRC round last year, that's why you would have seen us there ;)

MRO to allow the 748 in Thunderbike
 

Just got some news today that the MRO will be allowing the 748 Ducati to race in their "Thunderbike" series. Before, they have been excluded from the series, but next season its all change! We are hoping to be able to get an entry for the last round at Brands Hatch 7-8 Oct with a 748bp, just to see how competitive it will be, then a nice SP could be built for next year. Rules stay the same as for previous years with a max power of 1 HP per 1.814 KG.
So dig out those 748 trackday bikes and get racing. I have plenty of 748 bits if anyone wants to downsize their 916.

That's the series potentially ruined then. The 748 will be bang on the power:weight limit which no other bike is atm. I was gonna race my 800ss in the series but, I don't think I'll bother now. I'll go get an R instead and add some lead weight to it instead - irrespective of weight, the bike with the most power available at decent engine speed will be fastest down the straights.

I'd need to get my 800 down to 145Kg to be competitive - that just ain't gonna happen. 160kg - no problem but not 145!!

:(

...or lose 15kg from inside your leathers ;)

:o :lol:

Hmmm ... I suppose I wouldnt mind swapping my 748SPS for a 9x6 of some description :D

Hmmmmmmmm. mm. mmm ... might even px it for a tricked, but obsolete 800 :)

Yeah but at 5ft 11 I am always gonna be heavier than some people.

Allowing the 748 in the series imo is not good. Anyway losing 15kg off me still has no bearing on the fact that the 748 will easily hit the power:weight ratio whereas other bikes won't. Can you seriously see how an SV650 is gonna compete with an R that has been weighed up to the limit? The SV's at best give 85bhp in 700-750cc form before reliability goes out of the window. They weigh about 360-370lbs and can't hit the power:weight ratio without serious money being spent on them.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I suppose it's either let them in or have tiny grids?

Are they struggling for bikes?

I don't really follow it, it's a bit too confusing to me - being a simple southerner and that ;)

No. The grids are swelling with an excellent mixture of bikes: SS400's, Buell, SV's in various guises, a Laverda 650/668 (not sure which).

What I fear is that the grid will simply be swamped with 748's. In the USA, a similar series using similar rules has not suffered this and this is used as a justification by some with which to demonstrate that letting the 748 in is ok. However, the dynamics of that series are somewhat different and the resources available to people to allow other bikes to compete are somewhat greater and cheaper. In the UK it's not the same. The easiest route to getting bang on the power:weight ratio would be to buy a 748 - an SP, SPS or R.

interesting as I currently have two 748Bips plus a 748R engine, but like Nige says introducing the 748 could spoil the series as it would be the Ducati of choice for anybody thinking of running a Ducati in the series.

Hmmmm how interesting, race a 748. Your right it will get swamped. Now that is very temping haven't race in the MRO series for years.

I reckon a light 1000SS would be a match, absolutely. It would be a hell of a lot more interesting too. Especially with a 1080 kit in it! It would make more torque than the 800/748 and make tuning a lot more flexible than the 800 engine. And if you started looking at reducing reciprocating mass weight ...

But, the 748 is a much cheaper option because of the price of buying a 1000SS (circa £5k, unless you luck out - I have no luck) and getting it tuned. There's more spares available for 748's and as variants of that shape have been racing for a number of years it's just a lot easier to keep it running etc. IMO.

They've allowed them now so it's happening. I'd race a 748 in that championship, I reckon it would be great. You might not be too popular initially but that will change. Bearing in mind as well that 748s were allowed after a meeting of current thunderbike riders and their organiser so they clearly see value in having them out there. There's some cool people racing in that championship it'd be a giggle :D

Skids, I reckon you've got the makings of the ultimate Thunderbike's racebike there. Get that R engine in one and get it out there!

And if you had 16.5in carbon dymags running the latest in rubber porn ...

:lol:

WOOHOO!!!

I even have most of the 748RS bits from my 998Hybrid conversion, but i'm not sure carbon Fibre front ECU /fairing Mounts and CF battery trays would help the situation with 748R power, you'd probbaly need to be adding weight

So could i Paint 748 on the side of the 998 and get away with it.....Thought not DOH

Indeed. In fact - I see the best option being a Bip. Getting an R and then having to add weight to it is plain silly. A Bip with no tuning, just a lightened flywheel and clutch together with remapping and the cams dialled in would be an excellent starting point.

I still think it's a bad move though. I hope I am proved wrong.

i know you said 748's are allowed but are 749's too.


i guess the clues in the question?

No they aren't. Can't think why really.

748's have always had a bad time of it in the UK when it comes to racing - they were banned for years when the 748SP trounced competition back in the mid-90's and only recently became eligible again when they were relatively obsolete. IIRC an obscure ruling prevented the 748 from having its inlets opened up but, Jap 4's were allowed this. Overnight it made the 748 obsolete because it limited the power whilst the 4's went on to make more.

I think you are right and for this reason no-one will bother with a 1000ss or an 800ss now. With the 748 you can get bang on the power:weight ratio without having to spend money basically - everybody else would be playing catch-up.

I can make my 800 competitive - at a cost. I wouldn't need to spend money on much tuning - as you intimate it would be reducing reciprocating weight which has many advantages...but it costs shed loads.

But isn't this true of any racing series, with the exception of one-make series?

There will always be one model which has an advantage over the others as a starting point, purely because it is more powerful/lighter/better equipped/etc

So any body want to buy a 748Bip in road trim, scruffy bodywork and a set of carbon cans £2400 or £2200 without any lights or bodywork apart from the tank.

Rearsets and lightweight clutch basket available at extra cost

Ideal Thunderbike or trackday bike

Hmmmm .. mm ... mmm ... would you be interested to px one for a nice SPS kev ?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm NO
I Already have two 996s, my 998 Hybrid, a 955 Corse, two 748 Bips plus four aircooled 2-valvers, I'm not really after a SPS
And I sold my 748SP race bike that I last raced in NGs SoT championship at Silverstone in October 2003 to allow me to do Desmo Due in 2004, now that bike was ready built for Thunderbikes

Yes...but the whole point of TB is a power:weight restriction. So far no-one has met the benchmark figure. By allowing the 748 in suddenly there's the means to do it easily. So why will anyone bother with anything else?

I love 748SP's. To me they are best of breed. I miss mine and they're rarer than rocking horse sh*t. Rarer than an R.

Hey !
At last !
Someone with more ducs than me :lol: (just)
But you've got a lot more valves and pistons than me ;)

Phil I only have eight Ducati's now. Including my 748sp, bought it new in 95 from Motorcycle City. They only had 3 for the whole country back in 1995! So it was pretty rare then. I track day'd it, raced it, crashed it, blew it up several times, used it for what it was originally built to do. May have to blow off the dust and let her see the sunshine again? I recon the 748RS with a nicely built SP engine would be the ultimate tool for the job? but then what do I know?

At present there are plenty of bikes either bang on the power/weight limit or not far off it. Our Buell is around 5kg over weight at the moment but still has the starter and alternator etc that could come offf if necessary. The Laverda 750S of Alto racing has to put a huge battery on just to make the weight at all and the SV700 of Rob Wittey and Sarah Jordan aren't far off it either.

Next year there will be more tricked SV's plus a couple of RC30 Hondas etc. With the power/weight limit as it stands I don't think that the 748 will run away with it at all., and it will give all those garaged 748's a series to run in too :)

In the US Thunderbike series they have allowed the 748 in this season, and even though there have been a couple of very well dealer supported bikes out there they have yet to score a victory. The dynamic of the series is certainly different here in the UK, owing in large part to the lack of manufacturer support over here (Buell puts up US$750,000 in contingency in the USA and exactly 0 here), but I think the 748 will still have a real run for it's money in this country too.

What we have seen, unsurprisingly, so far in the series is that rider ability is the biggest factor rather than bhp/weight. James Wainwright is undoubtedly the quickest rider out there and is on a ZXR400.

There has been a very disappointing showing of Ducatis in the series this year, with just one road legal Paul Smart 1000DS making an appearance at Brands Hatch. I had expected to see a few more air cooled Ducs out there and don't think that they would have been outgunned by too much.

If anyone fancies running in the series next year please e-mail me, as I am in the middle of putting a case together for BEMSEE for 2007. None of the Bemsee/MRO classes are decided yet for next year and each class has to justify its inclusion in the calendar for 2007. Thunderbikes has so far produced 55 different points scorers and some very close racing all year, so hopefully we will still have a place once the decisions have been made ;)

As you know Matt, you live around the corner from me, and I was thinking of running my 800ss in the series but, I am not at all convinced it's worthwhile.

'Worthwhile' is a very subjective term, and I suppose it can mean different things to different people. If you are looking for very close racing with a very eclectic mix of bikes, very slick organisation and excellent camaraderie then the Thunderbike series certainly provides that. The Ducati 800S may not win but it certainly wouldn't be last

We have probably spent around £15K this season just to build and get the Buell competitive and have had a few 4th and one 3rd place with it, leaving us in 9th place in the series at present (although we have effectively missed 3 rounds). Has it been worthwhile? Not from a business or results point of view I suppose, but it definitely has been froma sporting perspective and has been great fun.

Depends what you want from your racing I suppose.

Your comment is very telling re. cost. This is why I think the 748 will become the de facto bike. Buy an SPS for £3500 - instant 100+ bhp and about 400lbs in weight without spending much on it. Drop the road gear off and it's bang on the power:weight ratio limit. By comparison, to make your Buell competitive you have had to spend a fortune. The 748 all in and prepped would run to less than 6k...easy. Everything else becomes obsolete for reasons of cost.

What I want is to be reasonably competitive at a reasonable cost. Now that a 748 is eligible my 800 or a 1000 won't be able to compete without spending a fortune of getting weight down - neither can be tuned to give 748SPS power so, weight loss is the only way they can compete.

Our costs have been higher than most simply because we have had to build and develop this bike from scratch as there are no others racing in the UK. Most of the Thunderbike top 10 have spent nowhere near our budget this year.
Jamie Wainwright is as quick as the supersport 600 guys at most circuits on his ZXR400, as are a few of the other top TB runners. Personally I don't think that we will see too many 748SPS or R's in the series simply because of the cost of running one is high for club racers. If memory serves correctly a 748 Bip only makes around 80-85bhp at the rear wheel so would still need to have some money spent to make it competitive.

I think you would be surprised at how competitive a 1000DS lightweight would be.

Baines Racing are apparently building a 1000DS motored bike for the series that I am sure will be more than competitive next year ;)