888 questions ...
 

I'm not going to be able to afford another bike until maybe next year, and the priority goes to racing but I've always liked the 888 ... so, a few questions ... you guys love these things so hopefully you won't mind having a chat about them :)

Price range? I'd prefer an SP of some description (yes I'm a snob, but after owning the 998R I like the special ones :) )

What are the pro's and cons of the SP range compared to your standard 888? Service intervals, ease of maintenance, anything particular to each model ...

Availability of track parts and normal crash damage type parts etc? If I get one, it will be (ab)used on track days etc so there's always the possibility of it going down the road ..

Anything else I need to know?

Thanks in advance for your time :)

Cheers,

TP

I got a strada on purpose, because I know I'm not the best when it comes to keeping bikes in pristine nick and by my reckoning an SP deserves a better owner than I'm likely to be.

The SP's are like any SP or R version...higher state of tune and therefore just that little bit mor pernicketty about service intervals. I change the oil and filters every 3K on my strada, if it was an SP I might think about getting it looked at by Nelly every 3K - praps not a service as such but a once over.

SP's had Ohlins forks as well up until the SP5 which used high spec Showas, arguably because of fork seal problems on the Ohlins.

As far as spares are concerned the good old Ducati philosophy of evolving everything rather than radical redesign means that mechanical spares are no problem - heaps of stuff from other later models will fit. Even if the engine goes pop, an ST4 or Monster S4, or even a 996 unit from an ST4S is almost a straight bolt in. Brakes are basically goldline Brembos but need upgrading with a better master cylinder because they're prone to fade with heavy use (and I have the underpants to prove it).

Where you will have problems is sourcing body panels, best take the originals straight off and store them somewhere safe. You can get trackday stuff from Ricambi Weiss or QB Carbon. QB are more expensive than Ricambi but do carbon fairings (bit OTT) or a self colured GRP set. The GRP set is what I'm going to fit ASAP because they don't show up stone chips.

The riding experience is what most people love about them. They're very short stroke motors so they love to be revved (for a twin that is), anywhere above 7K and if you've got an open airbox the induction snarl is orgasmic. They produce just on 100 bhp or a few more on an SP 110-115 perhaps so they're not the fastes thing on the planet by todays standard but more than enough to scare yourself.

The handling is what I love about them, they don't respond well to genteel riding, you have to take them by the scruff of the neck and show them who is in charge. The harder you ride them the better it gets :eek:

I reckon if a modern Jap bike was a Lotus Elise the 888 would be a snarling, spitting TVR (but more reliable)

Oh yeah...prices.

Perhaps £3.5 for a bargain strada, more like 4-5K for a nice tidy one. Add between 2-3K for an SP (most I've seen have been upwards of 7K).

Oh yes, and it seems that all 888's are becoming very cool and sought after at the moment, maybe this fashion will pass but at the moment prices are on the up.

Go on...you know you want one...heres mine before the GP billets, proper screen, carbon mudguard and high level carbon zorsts went on

Sorry about the fat bloke spoiling the pic

i too own a strada, bought mine over an sp mainly cos i knew i wanted to mod it and didn't want to ruin a genuine sp. the cams are a bit of a waste on the sp, they make peak hp after redline ferchrissakes!! the twin injectors are there for homologation only and (allegedly) aren't needed on the road. bear in mind though, if we rode what we needed and not what was cool we would all be riding ER5's. Jools is spot on, bodywork and bars are the only real headache, most other stuff can be used from another model. i've had 7 dukes and my 888 is definitely my fave, the riding position and the aggressive style required to get the best of it, the way the motor makes power, the looks and the way most people don't even know what it is, they're all reasons i love it. there's a quote from a road test that says "ride it once and you may not buy one, ride it twice and you'll never sell it." a bit of an aquired taste, but well worth it.

Better riding position than a 998. Not going to have as much grunt as your 998R, but there is something special about them.

Yep TP, agree with all that Jools has put above.
Prices roughly:

Early 851 1.8k upward
Late 851 (has the 888 bodywork with 851 stickers) 3.5k
888 strada 4-5k
888SP2-3 5-6k
888SP4 7-9k
888SP5 7-8k
888SP4S Cherching

They are going up in price.
Strada is the better road/all round bike. SP is nowt below 4krpm, a bang at 6k, bigger bang at 8k, and stupid by 10k.
I wouldn't get an SP unless you're going to look after it as the only ones a round now tend to be mint condition and fetching loadsa dosh. For instance a US modded SP4 went for about $26k, but it was spesh mind. The top end ones are going for basically what the buyer will pay to get one.
With a little effort a Strada can be made as quick as an SP. Without the layout of an SP so is a better bet. GazB's 851/916 is proof. The usual stuff, filter, zorst, chip.
Gofasterbitz are common enough, but as Jools said take the original bodywork off and stick GRP on for track work. Track day damage as long as the bike doesn't flip are panels, zorst casing, indicators, bar ends and scuffed leavers. Yup I threw the SP4S up the track at Cadwell in 2003 - I cried.
The fairing to frame supports are cack and need to be beefed up and fit a bigger brake master cylinder. That'll solve most of the brake problems.

Oh, and a few years ago Mark Forsyth in finishing off an article about the 888 said, the 888 is the biking equivalent of the Ferrari 250GTO, and that dear reader is why you want one.

Ains.

What Jools said....

If you fancy a little go on an SP3 or SP4 before winter sets in, have a pootle up to Milton Keynes (why else would you want to) and try mine (especially now the 4 is fixed).

BC

Oh by the way...as much as I love my 888's I much prefer my 996SPS in every respect - looks, performance, handling, the lot. They're wonderful bikes and much under-rated (imo) - have you considered an SPS Tony? Similar price to 888 SP's and perhaps a bit more suitable for track use?

BC

Up until an hour ago (!) I owned both an 888 Strada and an SP4.

Back-to-back riding shows up their differences quite starkly. The SP is spitting and growling the whole time it's moving (animalistic almost) - whereas the Strada feels quite tame by comparison and more composed. Maybe it's to do with the Strada's single injectors and more civilised chip/cam timing, but even with loud cans fitted it can't quite recreate the manic snarl of the SP. (I hate to say it, but after dismounting from the SP and swapping onto the Strada, I'd quickly become bored with its monotone blat, blat blat).

Gearing on the Strada is more sensible for the street. Bottom gear is lower, and top gear is higher than the SP equivalent. In fact, the SP's sixth gear equates exactly with the Strada's fifth. This makes the SP feel more hurried at higher cruising speeds - and the Strada much more relaxed. The SP gearbox would be preferable for the track though.

Despite the SP having fully-floating front brakes, I found those on the Strada to be as good if not better. (This may be more to do with the particular type of pads I had fitted than anything else). The rear brake on my own particular SP works quite well - but the Strada's rear is (traditionally) poor.

Handling? When I first bought my SP4, I found the handling to be way better than my Strada. The bike was far more chuckable, and it was much faster steering. (I've since learned that much of the 'inertia' in this particular Strada's steering is down to the rubbish tyres it's wearing). However, the quoted 30lb difference in weight between these bikes is on the conservative side in my estimation. Difference feels greater. SP seems loads lighter.

All-in-all, on a warm sunny day I'd take the SP out of the garage far more often than I would the Strada. I just love the rawness it oozes. Moreover, having had more bikes than I care to count over the years, I've never ridden anything that turns heads like an SP4. You just can't sneak about on one of these!

Steve

Tony,

I think Baines have an SP4 in now (or soonish)

Rgds, Rob

Thanks Rob, unfortunately I won't be able to do anything about this until at least next year I think. I guess I just wanted to get some info on these things so I can think about these things over winter ...

There's some excellent info in here, thanks everone. I guess if I went down this road I'd go the GRP bodywork and shelve the originals ... I'm even thinking that one of these things would go alright in Sound of Thunder :D Especially if it was a strada with a 996 engine in it or something similar ...

beancounter, thank you very much for your generous offer. I'd love to have a go on one but at the moment I couldn't afford to do anything to it should the worst happen so I'm better off not taking any risks at the moment! Having said that, I may take you up on that in the spring or something when I'll have a better idea of what I'm doing.

I'm leaning towards a strada really, with a few tuning options I suppose. I wouldn't look after an SP - as Freak and Lily will attest, I don't wash bikes very often :D My 996 was well looked after, but dirty. Although I did look after my 998R, but that bike was very special to me.

Has anyone tried to put a testastretta engine in one of these things? Is it too much of a bodge?

What suspension did the strada have? Not too fussed about brakes as I'd probably change them anyway.

Weeveetwin, I take it you sold the strada then - not the SP?

Yes, sold the Strada. It's a real beauty, but I no longer have the space to keep it so it had to go. After seeing the look on my face, the chap who took it said he felt guilty buying it!

Oh well, it's gone to a very good home. (Hi Howard!) I expect he'll be joining the DSC soon.

I agree with pretty much what everyone else has said.The SP definately needs special care,'cos it deserves it!!They(SP's) are definately not the civilized option!!Worth it?Oh YES!!!:)

Anything is possible with enough time and cash so a Testastretta could probably be mangled into the frame somehow...to be honest though I wouldn't bother. Think of it this way, by the time you've got a tidy Strada and then spent, what, £1200+ on an eBay 'stretta engine you're well into the price of a tidy, late 999 where you'd get your 'stretta with no hassle. T8's aren't bargain basement and even when I got my Strada I could've had a 2003 749S for pretty much the same money. The other thing is, and I'll be just a tiny bit puritanical here, to me dropping a testastretta lump in is not really in the spirit of the bike - but then it wouldn't be my bike so you could do what you liked.

Standard suspension on a Strada is Showa up front, with 40mm spacing caliper mounts and ooh, err, ummm I think Sachs or Boge at the back, but I couldn't be sure without looking in the manual. I find the standard suspension suits me very well (although I am going to drop the front end by 10mm to speed the steering a bit)

I had a good look at yours at Nelly's once, I must admit it pushed all the right buttons ... I know I could have ridden it at Cadwell on the track days but I think I was better off letting you take it grass tracking between the mountain and Hall Bends right in front of everyone :D

I didn't know whether to go around you or wait to clean up the mess! I'm glad you keep it all together, too pretty a machine to hit that wall.

As usual for me, my heart says SP and my head says strada ... I went with my head for the 996, and my heart for the 998R ... who knows which way I'll go next time - IF I do buy a 888 anyway.

There's a certain attraction to get a 748R/SPS and go and do the MRO Thunderbikes championship ...

But as I said, I'm beyond poor at the moment ... so you guys are giving me 'winter-dreaming' fodder :) thank you.

So, an ohlins/white power/something shock for it and a k-tech cartridge kit for the forks .. some nice geometry ... radial pumps and some GP billets ... tuned 996 engine similar to what I had done to my 996 and a lovely SoT machine is born :D

To be honest although the 999 shape has grown on me to the extent that I'd happily own one (I think!) I'd prefer the 888.

One thing I keep coming back to though is the weight differences between the strada and the SP which is a consideration if I wanted to race it. Especially considering my weight :D

Hi, Rear shock on a 888 strada is a showa. If you drop the front fork through the yolks, you may find the front wheel hits the head on full compression.
Corse 888 racers had the front head machined back and the sp5 had different castings to avoid this.
Try jacking up the rear,10mm should do to start with. or try Louigi Moto jack up kit Rob B rates this set up.
Steve Robins S.W.

Fair point about dropping the front, but I have seen a strada set up like that (in fact I was gonna buy it) without any problems at all. I think 10-12mm is reckoned to be fine, could run into trouble dropping more than that.

I might try jacking the back end though, it's worked well on my ST even though it makes it more difficult for a stumpy legged little bugger like me to get on the damn thing

Gives you more ground clearance and by carrying the weight a little higher it also makes it a little more flickable but slightly less stable. Sigma did this on my racebike last year and it would turn whenever I thought about it!

hi again, weeveetwin says he thinks the weight difference is more than 30lbs.I find this hard to see.
The front discs are lighter,
alloy sub frame and no pillion rests,
silencers,
rear shock rising rate linkage,
single seat,

are all lighter, iv'e weighed them all, the rest of the bike is pretty much the same, i can't see 30lbs in that lot.
If iv'e missed anything please let me know. Every oz i save is another good meal i can eat!
Steve Robins S.W....... fatter than Jools!!!!

TP

FWIW, my 2p worth. Agree with almost all that's been said. I have an SP3 (supposed to be even lighter than the SP4?), love the rawness. Nothing sophisticated at all! Not the best "town bike", obviously, even my 916 Bip was better there. I guess if I wanted a bike to cherish, I'd get the SP (which I did); not sure I'd want to track it though - s Strada with some of the mods described here sounds more sensible. And the thought of throwing an SPS down the road...

Whichever you get, you'll like it.

Andrew

Get down for coffee and a poke around over the winter (only 75mins from yours) and you can take a view on how far you might wabt to go with a strada.

Rgds, Rob

Thanks for the kind offer Rob :)

I'll be in touch about that.

Sp3 lighter than sp4? alloy tank yes but lighter seat unit on sp4, i doubt the difference was more than 1 or 2 pounds.
Steve Robins S.W.

Steve

Wouldn't argue it's a huge difference, just quoting somehing I think I read somewhere!

Andrew

I'll 2nd Rob's offer, there's an awful lot you can do with a base model - not too far from some posting here.

TP,thanks for those comments about the mountain.Says alot about the bike that it didn't spit me off on the wet grass!!You are welcome to have a go(when your brave enough!).Donington in three weeks,hope it gets through the noise test!!

Cheers Neil! The only Auckland I know is a fair hike from here so I might take a packed lunch! But I've never been to New Zealand and I hear it's really pretty so I'm up for it.

:D


No worries mate :) .. it's not so much being brave or whatever, but god forbid the worst happened I don't have the cash to put your pride and joy back to immaculate condition immediately, or even quickly for that matter. I'd rather not risk it until I'm financial enough to do so because I'd rather not let anyone down.

But thank you all to those who've offered me a ride on their bikes! I'm a tad overwhelmed, what a great club :)

My standard '93 Strada weighed over 230 kg on my MOT testers scales, with "some" fuel (can't remember how much), standard cans, bodywork discs etc. In track guise with Ricambi bodywork, including single seat, high rise race cans and Speigler iron discs it came in at just under 200 kg. Make of that what you will...

Darren

Wow! That's a pretty dramatic change. Did you make a serious effort to shift some weight off the bike?

So I get the impression that these things are heavier than the 996/998 range?

The manual quotes:

Strada =
445.3lb (dry)
489.4lb (kerb/wet)

888SP =
414.4lb (dry)
458.5lb (kerb/wet)

So, approx. 31lb difference if the book can be believed - but believe me, it feels like more!

No not really. The cans are just the usual straight through types that most Ducatis run around with anyway. The Speigler DI discs probably account for a pound or so each so I guess the biggest difference is from the fibreglass Ricambi bodywork.

It was still road legal though as I'd attached a pair of "out front" endurance style lights to the front and it also had the number plate/rear light in case I wanted to ride around in the Pyrenees as well as on track...

From my point of view it'd have to be Strada all the way. The thought of stacking an SP on the track fills me with dread whereas my '93 Strada owes me 3K... And with the execption of the tank (of which I've now got a spare) can be fixed for relatively small change) obviously dependent on how bad it gets...

As for the extra performance an SP could offer, the limiting factor is always going to be me.

Darren

Xtra trivia...
 

And don't forget the fairing V-piece and curved bigger rad on the '4!

Yes your quite right, so that's the rad and the vee piece and the extra water ( at 10lbs to the imp. gallon ) so lets make it 1-3 1/2lbs, i think a good **** should just about do it then?
Steve Robins S.W.

Hi Steve, i do believe you, but i think it's more down to the set up of the bike (sp4 ). I think the claimed dry/wet weights were about as reliable as the claimed BHP on these models!
I have changed out the strada parts for sp/corse parts on my special, weighing them as i go.Short of the OHLINS forks and the alloy sub frame, however i have lightened the steel sub frame,throwing away the handholds drilled out anything that could be ( holes cost nothing but my time, there free to me ) and cut of and thrown any thing that doen't need to be there,I'm just about there.
Carbon Huggers, cans, footrests and carbon/kevlar sp4 seat unit.
Lightwieght discs,chain +sprockets,
Corse Mag engine covers,RS996 clutch cover,
Lightened s/steel + Ti bolts,
Alloy flywheel,clutch,1/2 time gears,camshaft wheels,
50mm full spaghetti system ( very light weight )
Light conrods,pistons and crankshaft,
I even changed the clipons for alloy ones! that saved me a whole 2oz!!!!
If this bike comes in at the claimed weight for an sp4.......I'll have your children and the rest of the forum/DSC membership can watch.
But i'd love to be proved wrong.
Steve Robins S.W. .......Not weeveetwin

Hi Steve

If you're not careful, that bike of yours is going to float away!

My impressions are purely subjective, of course, so I can't claim to know for sure. I can only say how it feels. (The 31lb difference I've quoted above comes from the 'official' Ducati workshop manual - which also gives SP4 and SP3 as the very same weight).

I once queried this point on the US 851/888 message board, and the 'gurus' on there told me that the components allowing for pillion accomodation on the Strada add 12lb to the bike's total weight. (ie. if all of those components are removed from the bike, and are replaced with those of the SP, it would reduce the total weight by 12lb). How true it is - and how much of this is down to the steel subframe itself - I don't know.

I can appreciate your point regarding set-up, and how this can create an impression of weight loss when riding - but even in pushing the bikes around the garage the weight difference feels massive. The Strada feels like a heavy old lump indeed!

As an aside: I've an RC30 too now, and its quoted dry weight is 407lb. That makes it only seven pounds lighter than the SP. However, to say that it feels waaay lighter is an understatement. Ho hum. The water muddies! (Lies, damn lies and statistics, eh?)

Steve

Spot on Steve R, you sound like a man after my own heart, hold on you are me, or are you????? Or am i you?
How's my wife by the way?
She sends her best wishes to you, or is it me?....... or us?
Steve Robins S.W.

i too have heavily modified my 888 strada and can offer this, the ohlins forks on the sp's are heavier than the showas, and the steel subframe assembly with grab handles and pillion pegs, with plastic and seat weighs nearly 12kg! the sp subframe with alloy hangers and factory sp seat unit and seat weigh under 3kg. this swap alone made a huge difference to how the bike felt, and pushing it around it feels like a different bike. at present it's getting the engine modified and with new rods and pistons losing nearly 1/2 a kilo, the crank will lose some in the balancing process aswell.

Rob B and I have had the "shall we flog our stradas and go the SP route" many times, and in the end we both stuck with our stradas..you can do some mods without worrying about it drastically affecting the value, and they are more civilised for road use.

With my blue printed, fetted motor, its still knocking out decent horspower (duke2steve reckons it leaves his 748 for dead!), and with the mods ive done its there or thereabouts on the weight side of things compared to an SP.

There was a nice SP5 coming onto the market but Robs mate blagged it (sorry Beancounter!)

Nat