Why does there appear to be this hatred?
 

So not wishing to bring up too much of this seemingly age old argument, nor do i wish to cause any conflict, i just want to try and understand. Hopefully someone can enlighten me?

I have read many a harsh word spoken from other owners and i cannot just get my noggin around it.

Basically why do so many people hate the 749/999 series bikes?
Journalists, other bikers, fellow Ducati owners.

Aesthetics seems to be the main point of concern yet, in my humble opinion from the first time i saw the pictures i absolutely loved the way these bikes looked. Now beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that b*lls, however the majority of people who sto to have a look generally say,

" you know when i first saw these i didn't like it, but i really really like them now"

how come? is it down to the iconic 916/748 et all range? so the immediate impact of the 749/999 range was a let down? People still rave about the looks of the predecessor which they have every right to as it was a stunner, but it was always going to be superceded, and i do believe whatever ended up replacing it was going to be hated on... much in the same way that whatever the 1098 looks like will be loved as it follows something that wasn't.
I hope the 1098 looks great, i've no doubt the 916 etc owners will say it is an improvement over "our" range but still not as pretty as "their" range...

i really believe it was the journalists that started it and everyone felt they had to follow along so they didnt seem like the odd ones out, i mean actually sit back and admire a 749/999 the next time you see one, owners alike, actually just sit and look at it, and i think you will notice a line you havent before or something to make you think, "hmm actually this is a really nice bike" (if you didn't think so already)

Personally i love them all. They all look great past and present, and if i could afford it i'd have at least one of each model. I think bikes are great, and i love riding, but im in love with Ducatis, as a whole...

Spread the love everyone.... ;)

I think you'll find that Duke loving journos also love the 749/999.

The great thing is that as soon as the next generation 1089 (or whatever number it is) gets released and everyone realises the convergence of the new Ducati styling with that of the UJM the 749/999 will soon become a collectors item. The Ducatisti will reject the UJM styling and the 748/916/996/998 is so common ergo there will be a rarity value in the 749/999.

Of course I hope the new release doesn't spell the death knell of Ducati :(

it was just like that when Ford switched from the Cortina to the Sierra !!

I'm not going to be hypocritical here - looks wise I dont mind the 749/999, but I just dont love it in the way that I have a passion for some of the other bikes that ducati have knocked out (I actually prefer the 888 aesthetically now over the 916 etc so I must be getting old !).

That said, I think the saddest thing in my experience is that a good deal of the people who knock the 749/999 havent even cocked a leg over one.

If they did, they would realise, that dynamically, the bikes are a quantum leap over the 748/9** particularly on the road.

I've also been lucky enough to ride quite a few 749's/999's on the track and IMO they are quite a bit easier to ride fast than the bikes they replace.

Nat

Dam right, I do remember that, and didn't Vauxhall capitalise on it-the Cortina was the de-facto company car, when they brought out the Sierra Ford lost most of that market overnight to the Cavalier-which in all honesty wasn't a bad car anyway. Now Sierra's are considered a classic-whereas the Mk4 Cortina was and IMHO still is a shed-MK1 and MK2 Cortina's though-now that's a different proposition, even the 'coke bottle' MK3 was a stylish car.

John-showing his age.

I had a great ride on my 999S on sunday.
I left the bike outside my garage while I fetched the keys to put it away,....I swear I looked back 3 times at that bike,...what an awesome thing.
I love 'em.

They are all great, just that the 916 was iconic.

I think you are right John and I think time will do the same for the 749.999. its ahead of its time. Dunno if this is correct but I heard that the shape of the 999 came from a few things but mainly the wind tunnel and the need to improve rider comfort, both for the purposes of winning races, as the engines were at their limit. This seems to have been borne out by recent events

1) Bayliss being 9km/h straight slower than the Hondas down the straight at Silverstone
2) Ducati wanting to run larger engines
3) Yet, Lavilla, Bayliss and Haslam were all competitive on most circuits

Ducati need to be winning races, 10% of their staff are employed by Corse.

There are other factors of course and racing is not that simplistic, but the design is very much "form follows function" to enable them to compete with the clout that Honda etc have. For me the design represents the kind of ingenuity that has seen Bayliss win and Haslam come very close.

A lot of bike journos think the 9's are absolutely gorgeous. I wonder if a lot of the opinions about 916's and 999's are a case of people getting on the band waggon.
The 999 looks good. It is a brilliant bike and hopefully there will be lots of bargains waiting to be picked up when the new models hit the showrooms.

I have still got my 996 and a 749s, I just caan not get rid of my 996 as it is too sexy. I go out on my 749s and love it to bits for its supurb handling / braking and really fun to ride. But then I get back and see the 996 parked up and it looks better, sounds better and more fun to ride as I have to work it more. I've had a go on a 999 as well, nearly, very nearly... but sorry my 996 still beats it for pure pleasure. I can see me keeping the 996 forever and still having a top sought after bike.

Craig

you're right to wonder why the 916 lot **** the 999 when ever they get the chance, even doing it on the 999 site,
The 999 is the best looking Ducati I've seen but you have to ask why they made it look a bit ugly when they bought out the 05 one,
I think the 05 looks good with the race stickers but not so good when it's just red,
back to your point, I wonder if we will feel the same as the 916 lot when they bring out the new one,
It might be that unlike the jap bike we get too attached to our bikes, and as the saying goes love is blind and I think thats the answer,
Love is blind,
And why my 04 looks better than you 05,
:flame: :burn: :burn:

To a blind man in a welder's mask!

the 999 have come on a bit with the colour frame and decent swing arm
but when they 1st came out I think they looked pants
where as the 916 when it came out looked like it had just rolled of the race track
999 look good in race trim but that includes the extra frame brace under the tank for me

taste is a funny thing. I really dont like the new swing arm on the 999. I really appreciate the craftmanship and texture of the original cast swing arm, for me its a real peice of engineering beauty, the shape, the finish, those radii, the newer welded one just doesn't have that for me. But I have a bias as I work in manufacturing and when I get the rare opportunity to work with castings I love it as you can do do much with them but the tooling costs a fortune and the castings have a limited life. Working with aluminium extrusions is much more common for me and I see them as a cheap method of construction, so because of that I am biased towards the cast arm. There is probably a performance benefit in the newer arm, but to be fair I am not a good enough rider to notice it, if it were there.

actually, tbh, I now hate them cos I would like to try one, but dont like buying new(ish) bikes cos of all the depreciation.

I didn't like them when they first came out. Too radical and far removed from the 996 shape. Now, it's definitely a case of 'love is blind'. I can't remember why I didn't lilke the look of them in the first place, tbh. It's just a fantastic machine to ride. In fact, every time I ride the 749 I think about getting rid of the other two and just keeping this one.

Admittedly, there are lots of bikes I haven't ridden and maybe I'd feel the same about them if I had a go on them but I doubt it because the Ducati brand captured my imagination long before I was a biker with the 916 in a way that no other make has since. I think brand loyalty has a lot to do with accepting the new designs.

Mark, you have to have a go on my bike. Next BHCN rideout, let's swap bikes and you'll see what I mean.

Ive been full of love this evening as my baby returned safely from Almeria.
Shes now cleaned and polished blanketed, and snug back up her heated corner........

Well I have owned a 748SPS, a 998S and two 999S's and now ride an S4RS (waiting to see what the 1098 is like before I jump ship) and having cocked a leg on them all, as you put it, I can honestly say that the most rewarding of these was the 748SPS, despite the 999 supposedly being a better bike to ride. Maybe I am the odd one out.

Thats just the sort of comment that prompted this thread.
Go outside and smack yourself with a lump of 4 x 2.If you cant manage it,...I'll do it for ya,.....:frog:

The 999 has evolved a long way from its original..........How can anyone say a 916 with that orrible frame colour and ugly 3 spoke heavy orrible wheels is anything like a 998R?

things change..........apart from the **** comments!

Well it has been really interesting seeing the varying points of view and reasons behind why people believe/think this way.

I can honestly say i think its a bit mad, but variety being the spice of life and all, it would be boring if we all like the same thing, but i thought the "family" would be a little more close nit as it were.

I have had a few quickish cars with decent forums previously and to be honest i was expecting more of our "Ducati family" than i had experienced in the car forums, purely because it always seems to be Ducati against the rest of the world, well the Japanese Rockets i guess, but it seems the internal conflict is stronger than that against other makes. Ooo err!

Don't get me wrong i have considered a different make, i have only had two bikes in my 2 1/2 years of riding my previous being a K4 Sv650, which was a belter of a little bike, but my aspiration was always to get on the Ducati ladder and i stepped onto it as soon as possible.

i don't forsee myself leaving it through choice any time soon. I didn't expect to be scoffed at by other owners though, which how it seems having read a lot of this.

I guess it may be comparable to Porsche owners, (of which i have limited experience) looking down their nose from the heady 911's to the Boxster or Cayman, (maybe not no offence to any Porsche owners).

Ah well, im loving my 749 guess thats all that really matters.

Take care out there y'all!

Precisely mate. I've had mine nearly 4 years & still love it. In that time, I'd say nearly all the negative comments I've heard/seen have come from Ducati owners (mostly on this forum). Outside of dsc, the positive comments far out weigh the negative though.
I was at Brands BSB the other day & when I was riding out of one of the muddy fields I was stopped for a photo!! Not by some kid either, he was a ' proper geezer ' in his late twenties! Took me by surprise a bit as he looked more of latest/lightest/fastest fan.

Don't worry about what other people think of it, just enjoy it :)

It,s not that I hate the 749/999 series, it is just that I love the uncluttered, minimalisticness of the 748/9** series, the single swinger, the curves rather than the sharp edges of the new series etc. I guess if I sold my 748 & bought a 749 I would grow to love it as much, & yes I have done quite a few miles on a 749 but still prefer that solid feel of the 748;)



Chris.:burn:

...and with that bike ducati did something that would always be hard to folllow - the 749/999 is a much better bike to ride - on the design/aesthetics front it was let down - in my opinion by small details, but overall was good looking. if they made subtle changes they could make a good bike look great. for example they ommitted the top fairing vents in '05 which was good and if they smoothed out the headlight (to look like the multistrada) and kicked the side fairing join line at an angle to run into the fairing this would help too. the seat unit and rest of it are great - the detail maybe not quite.

Hehe! This thread's really made me chuckle....... I got a "Dyed in the wool" mate who has a 748 who, when I told him I was buying a 750ss, said that he didn't like them. Down in Spain he took a ride on her and decided she was great! I just replaced her with a 749 and he tells me he doesn't like them and prefers the 750ss.........( touch of the "little britains") Go figure? When I asked him what he doesn't like about the 749 he tells me "the double sided swing arm". Jeeeeeezus H!!! He hasn't ridden her yet but already he doesn't like her cos she has a double sided swingin arm! I give up!

The whole point of all this is the PASSION that's what makes us Ducati fans-and bores-and it's that which makes us argue over which version is best, if we weren't passionate about the brand we wouldn't be arguing.

As for me, I own an ST4S-which nobody could say is the most attractive bike-I think they are bland to be honest, but it's an incredibly effective road bike, and it's no slouch round a track either. I also have a 1000ss twinspark which I have only ridden 30 miles on but which impressed me with both it's engine and chassis-should be a belter once I have finished it. I have owned a 900SS and a 996, both great bikes, the 996 was wonderful round a track-even if it did lead me into 2 broken wrist's. I have ridden both 999, and 749 on road and track and like them both, I have also done a lot of miles on Multistrada's both standard and 'S' Ohlins versions and think they are fantastic road bikes, just SO sure footed.
You pays your money and takes your choice.

John

[quote=beancounter and I quite like Keefy's 999S [/quote]
How do you know what it looks like?
This is the only view you ever get of it!:lol: :lol: :lol:
{--------------------

Self-confessed BHCN division 2, as I think you well know Keith...

Thanks

BC

Dont you mean outer echelon!?;) :lol:
Hey,I'm only jestin'............:)

just the looks for me, plain and simple. When race repped they look better but never bas good as a 916 race repped

just think some of th elater IL4 stuf is better looking to add to probably a better bike

Spot on!!

No no, you're right mate...all I ever see of anyone on the BHCN rideouts is their rear-ends...not sure I should be riding with you at all next year, to me you all seem to be getting faster and faster.

I may go into "semi-retirement" - pootle over for a brekkie and pootle home again.

BC

I'll be pootling around with you next year, I don't see Keefy & Co when I'm riding regularly, let alone when I haven't been on a bike since June...

Aww,c'mon guys,............

Just had a thought on the subject and was wondering if anyone else would concur.

Is the subjective beauty of a bike realised differently by different generations?

I.E do people choose their favourite looking bike from the generation they first really got intersted in bikes and tend to stick with it? Shunning newer designs cos they were'nt as good as the good old days? Refusing to move on?

Does your average 70 year old appreciate 916 any more than his historic Norton for example, im sure he finds his classic ultimately more beautiful?

Would this mean the average age of a 916 996 998 owner be slightly older than a 999/749 owner?

Whilst i love the 916 et all i genuinely think the 749/999 looks better, it's just more modern and to my liking. And perhaps to reinforce the point im making (as in sticking with what we like), i think i prefer the look of mine to the new 1098, altough i'll reserve this till i have seen a new un in the flesh.

By jove i think i've cracked it ;)

am sure you have something there and that influence need only be from bikes. I am sure part of the appeal of the 749/999 for me comes from the fact that I thought the original Audi Quattro was a really beautiful, with its rectilinear/slab styling that the 749/999 draws on.

1098 looks better in the flesh, but its nowhere near as radical as the 916 or 999, bit of an excercise in safe styling

That depends upon your point of view. I find the 748/916 far more involving and harder - harder as in more demanding and I prefer my bikes like that. The 749/99 are softer and friendlier...that doesn't float my boat. The older bikes look like they mean business - the newer bikes just look like lash-ups.

Mind you...then again I think the air-cooled 2-valvers are the ultimate. I think my tweaked 800ss rocks and it's scalped a fair few 999's both on and off the track ;)

May I say as a 65 year old rider say that I couldn't tell you the name of the first "Bike" I ever saw, I only remember as an 8 year old that it had a side-car and the guy that owned it was ex "RAF",and him and family lived in our flats. When I was 16 the first bike I bought with a mate , was a Norton 500. When the 916 was shown to the World it was akin to a jizz mag. It was 'kin amazin,. That is why I have in my lockup, a Honda SP2 and a Ducati 996R. Both of which I ride . Time moves on and some of us Oldies move with it ....

I have had a 748 for many years and covered many miles on it during this time I got to know it quite well, just updated it and was quite happy, had a few rides on a 999 it seemed better in some departments but as ever on a test ride I am usually careful.
I am now in the fortunate position of having both 748 and 999 types, 748 I will never sell as we have been all over together and apart from the usual breakdowns have had many hours of fun, usually due to the breakdowns have also met many nice people.
However I did notice during the summer the draw of my 999 was stronger when I went in the garage, perhaps it's only that it is less effort to ride than a 748 which involves a little more footwork !! or the fact you can shuffle about,
Out of all the bikes I have ridden over the past 25 years they are still the 2 that give me the biggest grin factor :) - as do many other Ducati models 888 etc, these days they are all good and it just depends on personal taste.
Do we really care what others think ?
If your having fun just enjoy it:eek: