Ducati brand loyalty vs KTM
 

I've owned 5 Ducati's over the last 7 or 8 years (not just the sports bikes either) so think i'm a reasonably representative customer.

I also own a KTM 950 and have noticed several others have either bought KTM's or have considered them as a potential purchase. In another post Harv748 said he had no particular brand loyalty to Ducati and was considering an Austrian purchase next. (This is not a dig at Harv BTW) But many of the other KTM owners or prospective owners have had several Ducati's over the years.

KTM were on the verge of going bust in the early 90's and until the launch of the v twin 950 in 2003, predominently produced competition dirt bikes with the exception of a few single cylinder supermotos.

There will always be people swapping from a 999 to the latest GSX10R1Blade, and vice versa.

I'm sure Ducati are aware of the threat.

Do you think that KTM are Ducati's biggest competition and why?

What would affect your buying decision either way and why?

KTM sell something like 3 times the number of bikes that Ducati sell, so I don't think the two are even in the same league.

Not sure I want a KTM but my god I'd like one of those forthcoming Ducati hypermustard thingies.......

Personally I think it may be soe of the things posted in the why own a ducati thread.

KTM are slightly different yet have a character of their own including naysayers onprice and reliability... bit like Ducati :)

Have to say the 950 although not quite as good as the 998 sunds great, feels great, loks great and is stonking fun to ride!!

Yes there are better bikes but overall I love it so far :)

I reckon that KTM will be the biggest rival to the Hypermotard though

As long as they do an SP version.....

I think its double the number actually however comparing 2 manufacturers of v twins (OK the Ducati is an L twin if we're being really pedantic) I'm sure Ducati produce far more twin cylinder bikes than KTM but in this area where they are directly competing the question still remains as posed.

I'm really interested in the answers.

I currently own one of each (749s + KTM200exc). Different types of bike obviously, but the brands do have similarites, ie. use of quality components, attention to detail, don't have that mass production feel, etc.

I've had the 749 for just short of 4 yrs now & I'm very tempted by the RC8

I like the 950 SM after having ridden JPMs a couple of times. However I still like my Multi as it seems to suit me better at the moment. A lot of people are changing form sportsbikes to stuff like KTMs and Multistradas as they realise they make more sense for the majority of roads and conditions in the UK. In just the last couple of months I know 3 people who have bought KTM 950sm who I really wouldnt have thought would change from sportsbikes. All 3 of them are loving the experience. KTM seem to have got it right with that bike and you only have to compare parts and servicing pricing with Ducatis to see why they will sell a lot more.

I am surprised that the big Jap manafactures are not producing similar bikes that compete with the likes of the Multi and 950sm? I suppose its only a matter of time though. I cant help noticing everytime I go out on my bike I see more and more of this type of bike. On Sunday I must have seen 10 950 SMs as well as quite a few Multis in the space of an hour. You only have too read a few bike mags to see how the focus on sports bikes has been lessened and a greater interest shown in the offerings of KTM etc.

Some riders will never change and will always stick with their sportsbikes and will not even try out a bike such as a Multi or KTM. I know a few of them and they are the ones with the puzzled look on their faces when they have been left behind on a b road up to the cafe.

To me KTM seem to have got it right and the fit and finish of their bikes is very very good and when you throw the very cheap parts and servicing into the equation they should do very well and there is no doubt about it they will take sales off Ducati.

I've read somewhere that Ducati has the second highest "customer fidelisation rate" after Harley. I think we can define that rate by the percentage of people who will only buy that brand of bike after having bought one.
I think Ducati's rate was around 30% and HD 40%. And I did remember Honda being far behind with something like 11%... No idea for KTM though... But I didn't know KTM sells 3 times more bikes than Ducati, will have to check figures in France because to me it seemed quite a "marginal" brand far behind BMW and the japanese brands.

That's right, KTM sells more, even in France (figures for 2004):

1 Suzuki 23893 22,85%
2 Yamaha 23564 22,53%
3 Honda 14875 14,22%
4 Kawasaki 12672 12,12%
5 BMW 7210 6,89%
6 KTM 3786 3,62%
7 Harley-Davidson 3718 3,56%
8 Ducati 3117 2,98%
9 GasGas 2245 2,15%
10 Triumph 1954 1,87%
11 Piaggio 1544 1,48%
12 Aprilia 935 0,89%
13 Honda Montesa 868 0,83%
14 Moto Guzzi 642 0,61%
15 Buell 584 0,56%
16 Husqvarna 448 0,43%
17 Beta 308 0,29%
18 Voxan 299 0,29%
19 Gilera 283 0,27%
20 Sherco 228 0,22%
21 MV Agusta 199 0,19%
22 Scorpa 188 0,18%
23 Hyosung 124 0,12%
24 Kymco 102 0,10%
25 Benelli 90 0,09%

Am I off-topic? :D

interesting Honda are only 3rd in France, some way behind as well; despite being the worlds biggest manufacturer, and Gas Gas sell more than Triumph

I would suggest that KTM do so well because they have a specific market that they normally target. They also do well because many of their bikes can be dual purpose road(SM) or offroad.

For me its a matter of practicality and fun.

The 916SP is simply stunning...but with the roads as they are today, its simply tooooo much.

It comes down to whatever floats you boat. I enjoy riding off-road as much as on regarding all forms of 2 wheels. I ride top spec push-bikes on the road to shave seconds of PB's, but also ride mountain bikes off road to just get 'down and dirty'...for a laugh.

For me to buy a bike, whatever the make, I need to lust after it...and that applies to all forms of motorbike. Would I but a Ducati if it looked like a dog, just because its a Ducati, or it has that famous desmo engine....NNNNOOOOOOo way.

Would I buy a Ducati because it looked the absolute dongs danglies, but had an average engine...probably yes!

At the moment, Ducati seem to be aimlessly wandering around with no real direction or purpose regarding design.

Compare that to KTM who have revamped their entire range over the past few years...and have produced some simply amazing designs...some would say bizzare. But they do it with a conviction and self-belief that is contageous!

I mean check out their new Supermoto 690 for next year...absolutly bonkers, but I bet they sell a bucket load!

Design
 

Ducati Haven't lost their way in the design stakes.
You must realize too that Ducati is a small outfit and they are literally fighting for survival.

Interesting - maybe this will be a competitor for the Hypermotard? A lot of the motard riders I know reckon that the Hypermotard will be too heavy with the 1000cc engine in it, so it just won't cut it against the KTM et al offerings.

Could Ducati introduce a 695 Hypermotard? It may be cheaper but I doubt that the weight will be reduced significantly and for it to have enough power to be the class leader?

I test rode the 990 again at the weekend (back to back with a 1200GS) and Sue was immediately preffered the KTM. Nearly did a deal on a used 950 there and then. I expect there'll be one in the garage before long

Rob

Nah the direct competitor is the 950SM or if you really want to be flash the 950R out for 2007



http://www.ktmforum.co.uk/attachment...7&d=1160595773

Re BDG original questions:

1: Can't talk too much about KTM's re financing as I am still under a "confidentiality agreement" but I do know it was vital at the time and more recently GP activities brought the subject full circle back again, and life in the European Motorcycle manufacturing industry is not a life of Riley! Just look at the recent TI reversal out of Ducati.

2: Competitors - well as they make the same transport vehicle (motorbikes) they are competitors - but - every manufacturer will pronounace that they are not in "direct" competition despite the fact that they clearly would dearly love to "win" a sale from one another.

3: Finally from a personal perspective - if KTM made a YELLOW one I'd be in the dealer showroom mucho pronto. However I'm really hoping that the Ducati see sense and HypoM is released in YELLOW, then you'll maybe see mine in PRONTO.

Aargh,I really like the KTM LC4 640 Supermoto.There is a big KTM dealer just up the road from me and I'm often in there for a drool.
Cant justify another bike tho(dont wanna get rid of the 999 or the Multi),..and more importantly,..cant afford it!:(

ktm and ducati compete on many fronts in a subltle way, supermotos v monster (middlewieghts) Vtwin duke and SM v monsters (900,916,999)
and the 950/990adv v the multistrada.
The latter I would say is biased to the ktm but if ducati stuck the 999 in the multi it would swing the other way,
I went from a 900sl to 916bip, added a ktmduke then sold the 916 to fund an 1150GS adventure, that was traded for 950adv , traded that for a 1000ss and sold that to fund a 999, I now hanker after both a 990 adv and a 950se but dont want to loose the 999 so cant quite fund either at mo, ps Still have the ktmduke.
i would say the only real competition is its often difficult to own both so sometimes a choice is forced rather than picked.

Untill BMW release the HP2 MegaMoto next year....

I've watched BMW gradually raise the position of the twin pots over the years.
In ten years time you'll be resting your elbows on them :)

Supermotard or KTM for me every time. The BMW is hideous

I am intrigued by this. Why do you believe the BMW is hideous whilst you believe the KTM isn't?

I like it, it would be great to see JeffST4s wrestle it over the african dunes.:lol: :lol:

Now I have grown to quite like the Multi ... but this thing stirs my trooosers!

Mmmmm, yummy!

It's the future Tony, you should blag a ride...And you can throw it down the road and fix it for peanuts.... ideal for you ;) :D

Cheeky git!

I should blag a ride eh ... gissa go then! :D

When's the winter warmer, it's bloody cold!

There's two in the garage take your pick.... winter warmer.... Hmmm curry :D

Was there curry too? Mmmmm beeeeeeeeeeer :D

Oh yeah, and whiskey :D

Are the Scottish crew coming down?

I certainly hope so, it's not even arranged yet still a few months to sort it there was talk on UpNorth of having a karting session somewhere near us which could then swing into some kind of indian cuisine