Battery, rectifier or generator problem ???
 

just as i was thinking that i had got a reliable bike 600SS, the old girl lets me down.
historic symptoms;
rode the best part of 220 miles yesterday just bimbling around the southern counties bumped into skids and co at foxes last night all was fine - rode into work this morning just as i pulled up into the car park engine cut out pushed the starter and nothing no solonoid clicking no fairy lights on the dash and a very dim dipped beam pushed the horn button (no noise) and dipped beam degenerates into a non existent luminosity-- ah flat battery i thought, but why? i ask myself ,alternator,rectifier perhaps ah well i'll ring the AA later they'll have man that knows or at least i'll get the pleasure of a ride home in the recovery truck with the embarresment of well placed Ducati on the back--mid afternoon i decide to wiggle few wires in front of me workmates trying not scratch me head and makeing it look as if i knew what i was looking at and see if anything happens switched the key on pressed the starter and she fires into life ticksover well all lights etc bright as buttons- ah well wonder what that was all about then-- rode the bike home - well, within 50 yards of the front door anyway she cut out again same symptoms as before--
ive put the voltage tester across the ternimals theres only 8.5 volts
battery on charge now so i can get the engine fired up to test the rectifrier and genarotor output

so given the symptoms of a well drained battery this morning only to appear to have gained some mysterious added voltage thruout the day to start the bike and get me home tonight to break down with a discharged battery again-whats going on????? ive had no bulbs blowing or constant topping up of the battery - as if the rectifrier was doing its best to cook the battery-- i dont know the age of the battery altho looking at the cells in the battery they appear to be fine and also even if the bike has stood for a few days the starter has turned starter motor over very quickly-- the lights when the engine is running all appear to be fine so maybe the genorotor is working ok until the engine has cut out then like i said all the symptoms of a flat battery.

anyone had experience of similiar symptoms??? can any one shed ( excuse the pun) any light on the problem??? am taking bets on the cause but will know more as soon as the rectifier and genorotor is tested- oh and a new fuel filter was fitted two months ago - unless i got some real dirty fuel from somewhere
suggestions please?
dave

http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/sh...ad.php?t=29319

Some pointers to identify which component may be at fault.

I remember a mate having a similar problem years ago. he was traveling around with his headlight on dip and unkown to him the high beam filament broke away at one end and touched onto the low beam connection so he ended up trying to power 115 Watts of headlight, the bike wasn't designed for this so it flattened the battery. Turned it all off and after a while thge battery had recovered enough to allow the bike to start and was all OK until he turned the headlight on again. So it could be something similar and as you say the fule filter is worth checking in case its loading the pump excessively

Actually Dave, a similar problem stopped me on the ss at cadwell last year - it turned out to be the supply connections to the main power relay in the right of the front fairing. I would check the connections around there before spending any more dosh.

phil

havent spent any dosh yet phil--thanks for the tip-- still investigating and working thru the system - this may take some time as i dont really know the difference between an amp and an ohm-colour blindness doesnt help (have to seperate wires to get clear picture of the colours) and am a bit cheesed off at having to check all the connections that i replaced,cleaned and checked a few months ago-- but so far battery charged up to 12.56 volts - when engine is revved this figure does not change at all thru the rev range - so no current getting to battery-will be testing the regulator/rectifrier tonight
cheers

well everything is pointing in the direction of a faulty regulator/rectifier - not letting the current thru to charge the battery
BUT last night when i initially switched the ignition on, the red charging light came on as did the other fairy lights then immediately fell away to a non existent glow,before i hit the starter button the other lights remained on- hit the starter button 'the bike fired up the charging light remained extinguished-switched off the bike and the charging light remained off for the rest of the testing by this time i thought that the bulb had blown eventually stripped all the dash apart to find that the bulb was in fact ok- why doesnt the bulb light up when the the ignition is switched on? if the circuit is not charging the battery why doesnt the light tell me its not working? or have as usual misinterpereted the meaning "charging light" or does it light only come on when there is a total charging loss from the genarotor ,which i dont understand cos the warning light is is wired in after the current has been thru the regulator /rectifier- when by this time you would know about it any way?
as you can tell auto electrics is not my strong point(still searching for one of those )
phil -the general relay clicks on/off fine
going to pick up a new regulator later bet its not a straight forward plug and play job

HELP!!!!! got replacement from ducati but it is different the wires are different colours i have now two yellows two greens and two red/white coming from the unit i guess the two yellows connect to the existing two yellows from generator
the two greens connect to the existing red/white and red/black and the two reds connect into the single red black and not forgetting to bolt on the earth is this right?

well thru trial and error i fitted the new unit
bike starts ok ticks over ok current goes into battry rev the engine to get better reading and the 15 amp fuse blows to fuel pump and ignition indicating a short circuit inspect all wires replace fuse bike starts ok ticks over ok current goes into battry rev the engine to get better reading and the 15 amp fuse blows replace fuse bike starts ok ticks over ok current goes into battry rev the engine to get better reading and the 15 amp fuse blows
then i notice that when fuse replaced ignition on charging light does not illuminate bike starts ok ticks over ok current goes into battry rev the engine to get better reading and the 15 amp fuse blows charging light illuminates
swop back over regulator unit to old one recharge battery switch on, charging light illuminates, goes out when engine running but alas no charge going into battery after several more switches on and off and more multi meter testing more revving of the engine as well as turning into contortionist to hold multi meter points at the strategic points to test as welll as controlling the throttle all this in my fully air conditioned scenic workshop in full view of my well pi**ed off neighbours
in short the thing aint working and ive lost me patience ---see you all later

total nightmare Dave, almost seems as though you have multiple faults.

I hate electrics too.

I wonder if you have got a later model regulator; not sure what year model yours is - I've just fitted an electrex reg. to mine after the original gave up the ghost.

Blowing 15A fuses sounds major to me and I'd of stopped after the 2nd one blew. Time for some professional help I think - electrical in this case.

There is some thing weird that sticks in my mind for some reason - I used to have a 1979 BMWR100Rs and if the charge system warning light bulb blew, it stopped the charge getting to the battery! I used to carry a spare with me. However, you have see a charge getting to the battery - so this isnt the case.

Good luck mate - take a break from it.

A DC fuel pump trying to overcome a plugged fuel filter or crimped fuel line can easily draw 15 amps - one of the prime causes of regulator failures. The charging system can't put out the 15 amps at idle so it makes sense that the fuse blows when you rev it.

The mans on it again - I'll second that !
I was sitting here earlier thinking that rings a warning bell about something completely different to the things dave was checking.

thanks for the suggestions-- but
i have already eliminated the fuel pump by disconnecting at the 4pin plug and it was still the same- just to eliminate the filter i removed the filter that i replaced 2000 miles ago and replaced with a free flow unit i:e a length of fuel pipe so i would say that the fuel pump/filter is out of the equation (and i cleaned the gauze filter by running down to the local petrol station and blowing it out with the airline)
i have traced the red wire from the reg unit to the battery, starter solonoid, fuse box, stop switch, starter switch, and back to the starter solonoid via the red/blue wire cant find a braek or dirty connection - i have also run a continuity test thru the wires to make sure altho i cant see that the starter solonoid would drain the amps from the battery until you hit the starter button
the general relay is working fine
the red/white wire that goes to the charging light indicator is fine
the red black wire that goes to the fuse box then to general relay also checks out ok
i have removed all the earth connections and cleaned and replaced
i have disconnected several other components neutral light switch stand switch brake light switches to try and eliminate them draining the system
so the only thing that is left is the generator /stator itself which i have tested and is showing an out put
either i have two dodgy rectifier units or i have missed something
now sitting in a pile of broken fuses a bike that resembles a plate of multi coloured sphaghetti and maybe a multi meter that tells blatant lies-
i have threatened the bike that it WILL be replaced with a VTR but that hasnt worked either

is it possible for genarator/stator to have an intermittent output?
i've checked the wires from the generator there is no evidence of burning or heat build up in the wires

I admire your persistance Dave.

Surely the genny does not make much difference to actually starting the bike? Given that all else was ok - eg the battery and ignition systems etc shouldnt it at least start but flatten the battery eventually - just like a total loss ignition??? Or am I missing something.

Could it be that the battery is duff in someway? Could you blag a new one to try and eliminate that?

Good luck mate.

Mate,you have connected it up the wrong way round!
It should be,
New- old
yellow- yellow
yellow- yellow
both greens- black
red/whites -red

old reg.
red/white-not used
red/black-not used
The new regulator does not use a charging light.

i have borrowed a new battery frank
what is happening is that the old reg does not pass current to battery altho everything else works fine
new reg allows bike to start and everything works fine has current to battery (15volts at tickover) but keeps blowing fuses(the 15amp fuse that protects the ignition/fuel pump/regulator) and when engine is revved past tickover-- the new reg is a new updated one version from ducati it has two green wires two red/white wires and two yellow wires surely someone has replaced the regulator on a SS with the ducati partno54040131A- i got this one cos with the DSC discount it worked out cheaper than any other replacement unit advertised on the net - i am sure i have the new reg wired in correctly cos any other way it either doesnt work or bypasses the ignition switch by creating a permanant live to fuel pump -- i keep getting different numbers on the out put of the genny but i think i this maybe the cheap MM i have or the different points at which i take an earth or maybe just the different revs at which i am taking the readings---that is why i have asked if anyone has experienced a generator failure - altho reading the posts about reg/rec/batt/gen problems thru the forum no one has, its always been a reg unit or wiring failure-
dave

there isnt a black /red wire on the reg keefy be- unless you mean the existing red/black wire draw me a diagram mate- off to work now

I feel so badly for you Dave that I've trawled all of the DSC and Ducati.ms websites looking for clues.

Here is a good trouble shooting guide from the USA I might well print out myself:

Sorry, its just for the charging system only and mainly relies on the engine running but hope it helps!

Try again:

http://www.electrosport.com/electros...t_finding.html

Cheers

thanks for your time frank - the linky not worky but i did download a flow chart that i worked thru also went thru some threads on the forum that described how to test all the various components i also worked thru the ducati workshop manual and when all else failed i resorted to the haynes book- i also couldnt find out much about the updated replacement regs from ducati -(might be worth dropping ducati uk an e-mail that maybe they could include instructions with the regs)!!they probably dont do that to stop muppets like me taking away their workshop revenue
i think keefyb is definately onto something in that i have wired it in wrong just hope i havent damaged anything else- i did wire the reg in in the way that keefyb states but the charge light never came on so i thought that i had got it wrong doh-- so keefy b i have deciphered the wiring and will go ahead does this mean that the charging light will be obsolete and won't/shouldnt illuminate when the key is switched to on?or work at all? sorry to appear a bit thick, well that is cos i am----do the two green wires that you state go to black (i dont have a black wire) go to earth?
dave

Yep,all Dukes with the modern Japanese(?) style regulators have no charging light.(There's confidence for you!)
Your existing light will become obsolete.

wahey!!!!!
KeefyB I owes you one mate I now have everything working as it should(except the charging light!) thanks to everybody for their suggestions and help - a ten minute job to rewire the reg in correctly--any future electrical problems just dont ask me!!

Glad you have it sorted mate.:)