Rear Wheel / Exhaust clearance?
 

There seems to be very little clearance between my rear wheel and the exhaust system midpoint connectors - (at about 3 o'clock if viewed fron the RHS) so little that I've burnt the tyrewarmers when putting them on after a track session. There is at best only 5mm with the tyrewarmers on.

I'm running a 1 tooth smaller front sprocket and standard length chain, so the wheel should be further back than standard anyway!!

Is this normal? Jon's 996R seemed to suffer similarly (although with standard gearing), but when I checked a 748, there was loads of room - there cant be that much diff between a 50mm and 45mm system!!!

Whilst fitting a longer mag swingarm would be great - I can't justify this, but I may look at a 54mm system, but not if the problem will get worse!!

What's my option, fit another chain link?

Tim:frog:

Lengthening the chain is the easiest option Tim........and the cheapest.
I run a 96 link to push the rear wheel back a little. Suppose to stabalise the bike a little??? Thought I'd try it ;)

Sounds about your only option, I did notice on the ETI bikes this year that they fitted a temporary heatshield, which clipped to the pipes near the rearset, and a aluminium plate sat between the pipes and tyrewarmers, if that's any help

Thanks guys.....
 

.....the only other temporary thing I was looking at was to stick some heat resistant tape all around the tyrewarmer - its burnt a few holes in it, so it needs some kind of repair anyway.

Tim:frog:

Tim how can you not justify a mag arm that improves traction and weight bias as per all proper Ducati race bikes, but you can justify a 54mm exhaust.
With the standard arm running certain gearing I do tend to singe the tyre warmers, doesn't help having the 54mm exhaust but both of the Dukes I have next year will have the longer swingarms, the 998 engined bike may have to settle for a 50mm system for now but will be sourcing a 54mm when the TT bike is sorted and funds allow.

Fair point, but.....
 

...the swingarms are around £2K, 54mm systems are around £1K! (unless of course you know differently).

At Almeria the Duke was not lacking corner speed / stability / traction against the big Gixxers etc (although I was!!), but I was definitely losing out on top speed.

I could fix this (or at least narrow this) with a 54mm system I reckon. - is this fair?

But I take your point and will do some investigation into mag swingarms.

Thanks
Tim:frog:

Tim,

Why didnt u just buy a decent 996 to start with ..????

Tim, Dibble's right, you know. There are some nice RS bikes floating about. They eat gixers and R1's for breakfast!

Tim, its either Tecmoto or Casoli that do a mag arm for about £1250 complete with new rocker, both places do them but one is cheaper than the other. One of my arms is a standard arm that was lengthened by Spondon, by use of a bit out of another standard arm. Not sure if they still offer this service, they originally did a batch of around 60 of them, a few went to Ray Stringer for his bikes when he was Steve Hislops team mate in the Devimead Ducati Superbike team as Stringer raced a highly modified SP where as Hislop had a full 955 Corse .
The other arm came from Pro Twins second hand at £1200 and is a genuine Ducati RS one.. Worth giving them a shout and see if they can come up with one for you. I think KJ Performance may also have the odd 2nd hand one in if I read their MCN advert right.

Don\'t start me off!!!!
 

......my thoughts are its the maintenance of the RS's that would cause the biggest headache for me.

Are these not highly strung thoroughbreds that need a complete engine rebuild every time you look at them?

For the amount of maint I think she'd need, I'd have to move closer to Nelly or AJR, to cut down on travel expenses!!!

The 996R is the ultimate road-going version of a Ducati IMHO and I want to enhance and improve on that, and still be able to stick a brake light on her and take her out for occasional road outings for DSC meets etc.

Tim:frog:

Kev - thanks for the response....
 

....I'll check them out, I have spoken to KJP in the past and didn't get a good feel about them - they seemed a bit cocky? IMHO.

But if they can provide one at the right price!!!!

In addition to this, I'm thinking about steering head angles at the mo', as I just couldn't get the bike turning quick enough at Almeria. I haven't tried this before either - any thoughts?

The wheels are OZ, but are not mags, so I'm now off to try to find some mag wheels to swap again and quicken it that way. I like the Marchesini 10 spokes, but they are the price of a Corse swingingarm;););)

Here's hoping for a Xmas bonus!!!!

Tim:frog:

Bah Humbug!!!!
 

But Weeksy - you're right!

No need to apologise, the great thing about opinions is that everyones entitled to have a different one!!!

But to your point;
There will always be a difference in straight line speed as newer bikes get introduced, but its a matter of keeping the difference as low as possible.

I have got the brakes as reasonably setup as I can (reasonable in terms of performance/price) with Brembo race m/cyl, P4 (4 pad) calipers and wavey disks (nice aren't they!) so she'll stop better than most of the Jap stuff, its just that I'm need to come from a long way back to make these out-braking moves!!!

Fitting a 54mm system allows more breathing space at the top end hence better top speed and will narrow the gap.

As for best investment of money (and I know you'll enjoy this ), it's not just throwing hardware at the bike, its going to the CSS (or other race school) before I get a 54mm system or any other performance goodie (or RS!!).

I'm nowhere near good enough to get the best from my bike as it is and never will, but I hope to get closer to this goal with the CSS.

Any Muppet can go fast in a straight line as you can buy straight line speed, but you can't buy corner entry/exit speed, you can only learn this (and expedite this learning with the correct teaching).

Blimey - that's enough crap!!

Tim:frog:

yeee ha Rattler ... but its the learning of the zen art of cornering thats the most expensive bit .. by the time you've tweaked yer machine (mag wheels, 54mm zorsts, donut holder etc) been on yer race school (CSS, ESS etc ..) and then binned it pushing the limits of your new found but yet conquered craft .. it all adds up, no wonder Mr R1 just says sod that ... buys this years bike, does 160mph down the nearest dual carriageway then brags about it at his wednesday night meet ... leave him to it ...

And if you are getting the best lap times you can (stay out of this bit weeksy :D ) then why are you bothered about catching the R1's and Gixxer thous ..???

You going racing ..?? or learning to ride quickly .??

Dibble

PS to quote a famous cowboy "theres donuts in them there run off areas" .... yeee ha

\"round \'em up\"
 

But Dibble - Your Mr R1 is wrong - its not about how others feel about him, its about how he feels about himself!!!

If he is reliant upon the temporary elation he gets from barside bragging then he'll forever need to prove himself worthy of these claims.

"Only you will truly know what you seek out of your bike"

Here endeth the lesson!!!;):D;):D;)

Tim:frog:

Tim I have had very little dealings with KJP but ditto your comments.
As for quick steering, i'm not a fan of the steeper head angle route, only circuit I can see that may justify me using it is Mallory and I would have to be feeling rather suicidal to consider using it for somewhere like Castle Combe, Currently the new bike is sporting Mag yokes with different offset (I think these are also standard fitment on a RS) but thesee will end up on the second bike when I sort some Harris adjustable yokes to hold my Ohlins forks.
As usual I am just trying to build the best bike I can from the knowledge I've aquired either from my own or other more experienced people, based on Handling, with out right power and top speed being at the bottom of the list. And not because I will be able to exploit the bikes full potential but I do know a mate that can and as with most of my bikes he will get to ride it and tell me what he thinks, but unlike the R6 he will not be taking it to the TT. How do I know he could exploit it well, I think last 2 years TTs prove the point.
2003TT 3 races two Production R6s
21st in Junior TT
24th in Proody 600 dispite a 1st lap Pit stop and the race getting cut to 2 laps
25th in Production 1000cc but excluded for cheating (Not enough CCs)
2002 TT Proddy 1000 Race on Weeksys old 1998 Fireblade, started 89th on the road and finished 29th.
2002 Manx GP 115mph lap on Steel framed CBR600
Also his very first ride on my 1995 Ex V&M CBR600 he did a 1'05 around Pembrey taking it easy as I was going to be racing it myself later that day, then went out on his own CBR6 and did 1'04s

Some times you just know when a bike is right, but if someone else can prove to you just how good your bike is it doesn't half sort your head out.
Bit Like Felix buying a RS he just knows the bike is so capable and it will be he that has to raise his riding up to try and match those of the bike.
Bad workmen and tools spring to mind, but if its impossible to blame the tools you know where the improvements have to come from.
And with the best part of a Decade of racing in Superbikes with the 9** there is now a set formula of what makes the bike work on the race track.

TIm

To your original question.

When you tighten the chain where does the centre of the wheel end up?
Above or below the swingarm centre point.
I always have the wheel centre below hub centre so there is always plenty of room even with the 50's
Would also make the bike steer a touch quicker than the above option.

Just a thought???

I think what you should be asking hear is,
Does the 998 with 50mm system have less room than a 916/996 etc.


Jon

Don't you have to change the rear shock or have it modified if you go the mag swing arm route.

I suppose it would have to be an Ohlins replacement £££.

If so, how much extra cash are you going to have to shell out on top of the cost of magnesium swingarm.

Just asking as my 955 has a tendancy to wheelie quite rapidly now and may be looking for the longer swingarm in the neer future to try and calm it down a bit.

With my extended by Spondon swingarm, the mounting points are in the same place for the rear suspension so to compensate for the extra 20 mm of length idealy the spring should be uprated by the same percentage which is around 5%, so for most riders this is hardly worth the trouble especially if been used in conjunction with mag wheels. Some Mag arms are designed to be used with different rockers (not sure if this applies to all) so it will depend on how these rockers affect the leverage on the shock to wether you have to change the shock unit or the spring. With my Mag arm I am using the Race spec Ohlins but I also have a alternative spring with it that allows me to use it with a standard length swingarm.
A lot of Ducati riders using there bikes on the track tend to run the eccentric adjuster as far rearwards as they can, but I bet very few of them alter the suspension settings by much let alone change the spring, just as very few people fit a different spring when fitting lighter wheels.
If a spring change is necessary it is usually a very small change and more often than not the range of the damping on the shock will be able to cope, but if it can't then a revalve may be in order, then again every so often a Ohlins should be sent for a service anyway, roughly at the same interval as a fork oil change.

Thanx for the info m8.

Hopefully one day I will get around to plotting the linkage ratio, by measuring wheel travel against damper rod travel through each millimeter of its movement. That information will then allow me to determine the best spring to use when other factors are being considered, such as weight bias, swingarm length, amount of wheel travel, wheel weight and alike. Even top speed sometimes has to be allowed for.
But as I pick up a Kawasaki ZXR400 road bike tomorrow to start preping for next years lightweight TT, its suspension is going to need looking at closely to see what we need to do to it, as I'm getting fed up with my mate collecting Bronze replicas and hope to build a bike capable of bringing home a silver replica. Would be a ideal project to feature in Pronto if it was a Duke we were preping.

But as I pick up a Kawasaki ZXR400 road bike tomorrow to start preping for next years lightweight TT, its suspension is going to need looking at closely to see what we need to do to it, as I'm getting fed up with my mate collecting Bronze replicas and hope to build a bike capable of bringing home a silver replica. Would be a ideal project to feature in Pronto if it was a Duke we were preping. [/quote]


I raced a ZXR400 the other year, I had different length bottem suspension linkages & a technoflex rear shock, with K-Tech also doing the front forks, they basicaly ditch all the internals, put 600 springs in , new rods & cartridge.

The linkages help soften the rear and allow the shock to work to its best ability, Give Chris a ring at K-tech, think the number is 01530 810625, they are in Coalvile near Leicester.

http://www.k-tech.uk.com/

Just got details on the linkages, they are made by NWS, the originals are made for two up riding, the NWS are purely for racing & make the suspension more progressive, dimensionly i am led to believe that the Chassis side is shorter, the shock side is longer & the angle is moved from 17 degrees to 18 1/2 degrees.

Another good mod is the use of ZXR600 f & early G model calipers. The pistons on the ZXR400 are 27mm in diameter, the ZXR600 are 30mm in diameter, also the ZXR400sp uses a mixed caliper, front piston is 27mm & rear is 30mm. The calipers are the sameshape size etc as the 400`s so bolt straight on.

A very good ZXR400 tuner (has done many bikes for the Manx & TT is Shaun Webster of R & S Performance in Worksop(01909 482670).

Chris.:roll:

[Edited on 20-12-2003 by chris.p]

[Edited on 20-12-2003 by chris.p]

Skidlids
I got a Zx400 rear linkage from NWS a few years back to help a raod bike (zx400)
put it on then took it of when selling the bike ,it did help the rear but then it upset the front as i left that std ,
I will see if i can find it , might be of some use ??

Cheers Totto, that could well come in Handy, When I had a ZXR750J years ago I replaced the rocker linkage with one off a later model and also fitted a Fox shock for a much improved ride.
Chris thanks for the info, there's a lot to do to turn this accident damaged road bike into a bike capable of a top 10 finish at the TT, but tahts the goal.
just got back from Romford with the 400 and for the money its a hell of a good deal, for a few quid it could be back on the road, which means it would then owe me £1100 which isn't bad for a N reg ZXR400, with Tax, MOT and alarmed.
Time to startsurfing the net and gathering info. Better start selling the odd Ducati and some of the spares to fund it.
Kev

Kev,
I know a bloke who makes rearsets & crash bobbins for the ZXR400, they are the ones that Race Products & a lot of the Paddock sales vans sell, can get them for you inc P&P for £95 for the rear sets & £30 for the crash bobbins, do both together & i will sort it for £120.

Shaun Webster is definaitly the guy for the tuning, he will advise what is needed & will then do what you want.
His engines are well reliable, will end the season with the same bhp as started.

For fairings give Dave a ring at H C Racetech, all mounting points fully reinforced with carbon, 01522 702800

Chris.:roll: