Sticky Back Brake pedal?
 

On the DSC Essex rideout yesterday, I noticed that may back brake felt rather sticky, like it was all gunked up or something.

I haven't looked at it yet, but I'm guessing that it might have a layer of crud or could be starting to rust a bit?

Is this a common problem, or is there a known problem with it?

Cheers,

Forgot to say, the brake action itself was fine - so it definitely wasn't the calipers or anything starting to stick. It just felt like a dirty actuator rod or something....

Could well be dirt etc around the pivot and push rod.
Only other thing that could be happening is the piston in the master cylinder is on it's way out. The rear doesn't get the attention the front gets, or the use and the moisture in the fluid can cause corrsion in there.
Pull the pedal off and check the cylinder itself is working OK and returning fully on it's own.

You ain\'t stepped in chewing gum antonye?
 

:lol::sing::sing::lol::sing::sing::lol:

Sorry couldn't resist. I found my back brake was crap when new, worse than any other new bike.

Now after a 1000 miles it works great with good feel on those wet corners as I ride mine everyday.

I guess if only rode in the dry then back brake would not be used that often. Maybe thats why it goes off from not being used enough?

Thanks

Lee1980 ;)

Troy Corser says they have and I agree with him. Then again I have a slipper clutch so engine braking isn't quite the same.

You mean you don't trail the brake into the corner to settle the suspension? ;)

Thanks for the tips. I'll check the pushrod as I'm sure it's just gunky.

wots a back brake???
 

read Andy Ibbotts tips
back brake is there for show
but then again,
brakes are the killer of speed
ok I'll get me coat
mort:lol:

If they are just for show then why bother ever devloping a thumb brake.
Best Andy Ibbott pay a visit to Troy Corser, Jeremy McWilliams and a few others to tell them they are doing it wrong.

Spot on Antony, when used correctly it can act as a anti-dive device and for the top guys as traction control.

Each to there own, neither way is wrong, its what ever you feel comfortable with. On sunday on the way to and from the Oxon/Berks meet I didn't use mine at all due to the fact it has lost its pressure again.

skidlids
 

lost its back pressure
Sure was it ever there????????
Ok then, poll time
Wots a back brake for?
unless ure racing and dont want to pull a weeeeely at start line!!!
or if u go go into kitty litter and dont want to lowside
apart from that wot did the romans do for rear brakes ( wiff greatest apologies to MPFC)
answers to rearbrakeaddicts.com:roll::roll:
ok I'll get me coat
rgds
mort:roll::roll:

Hada similar prob when my bike was new. The rear brake leaver would stick and actually touch the fairing when it would budge! Hackett's said they all do that. So i spent a year with no back brake! You kinda get used to only the front one. Decided to bleed it myself, and now i have a back brake!!!! feels odd to not roll back on an incline! kinda miss it not working, tends to focus the mind.:lol:

if you did not!
 

steer the old bikes into the corners using the rear brake ! then you did not go around the corner !!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol: oh i'm talking kwack (H) 1's:devil:

Madmav,

I've had several pints of Websters by now so may be talking crap, but as a mere non-WSB mortal I occasionally get the odd corner wrong and I find the back brake is ideal for scrubbing off speed without any fear of washing the front out.

It works for me and that's all that counts..........to me!!!!

Guido (half cut and enjoying it but not looking forward to the 20-odd mile push-bike ride with my British Champion Wheelchair Athlete mate early tomorrow am :o:o )

P.S. Antonye, Take the pedal off and lube all the linkage and also the piston/pushrod. I reckon youll be fine matey

[Edited on 10-1-2004 by Guido]

Remember that if the bike will get round the coner wih the brakes on then it will certainly get round without them! Just lean it a bit more. Braking with the bike leaning means the tyre has to do two jobs, braking and cornering. Take away the braking and there is more grip left for cornering. (unless you are on slicks or super sticky road tyres i guess).

The Police will tell you that most accidents on bends happen around 20mph less than what they would concider to be an "interesting" speed for that bend!!

I use mine all the time,though like you weeksy I ride with the ball of my foot on the peg and then shift it off as I enter a bend, if nothing else it gives me a bit more confidence to carry speed on the road(rightly or wrongly)with the thought I can drift off a bit of speed if I've gone in a bit faster than I realised-rare these days as I scare too easily.
My master cylinder went last year,the seal developed a leak which let air into the system which meant the rear brake worked once and then gave up with the pedal just hanging loose-Nelly sorted it out for me,not too expensive either.:P

Interesting conversation, I don't use my back brake i have to agree with weeksy for once.

I too ride with the tips of my feet on the pegs, i find it better.

I find the duc so good in corners that if i do go in a bit hot i just trail the front brake very slightly. I know it would prob go round anyway but just makes me feel better. I have never had the front go away i just love how my bike takes the corners.

The problem is cos i don't use the bake brake it just goes soggy and needs bleeding every 6 months, when i say i don't use it i do but only when at a standstill.

My rear brake sticks from time to time though the lack on use i just strip it down and lube it with some light grease.

Mark

Good debate

I always used my back brake - not sure why they would put one on the bike if not to be used. Then at the start of last season I started racing and began to learn how to really stop in a hurry - like nothing I'd ever done on a road or track before - you have to or 5 bikes go past you into the corner. I found I was too clumsy on the rear and kept locking it and had an excursion into the litter at Druids. Since then, I've NEVER used the rear brake on any of my bikes, even commuting to work.

Now I know that's not too sensible and all the big racers use them, so this season I might give it a go.

Regarding trailing the front into corners. Have you ever seen footage of the WSB/GP boys from the camera facing their right hand. There was one shot of Colin Edwards who had the brake on HARD until the apex, fully cranked over - what's all that about? Don't try this at home!!!! Edwards for winning MotoGP anyone?

WeeJohnyB

With slicks on you can brake hard deep into the corner. I ride with two fingers always on the front brake but if i come to a quick corner i take my fingers off the lever once i'm comitted to the corner. The danger of trailing the front brake or keeping your fingers on the lever is that if something goes wrong then your natural reaction is to grab a handfull of brake. If your fingers are not on the lever then it takes that little bit longer and i tend to have more of a stab at getting the thing round the corner in the first place.

I only use the back brake at traffic lights etc.

Sorry, had a few beers tonight so this might not make much sense!!

Might as well step on a piece of wood

You make perfect sens to me rockhopper:lol:

Interesting info WeeJohnyB, I will look closer next time.

I like it Mr Bostrom998


Mark:lol:

Know where your coming from, My Kwack H1F was a real handful on the cornering front, Yam XS1100 wasn't a lot better and they were the ones with front disc brakes. To much use of the Front drum brakes on previous bikes could get you into serious trouble especially when coupled to the pogo suspension and Avon Slip Masters

Old topic i know


Although I haven't picked up my copy of this weeks MCN yet I understand a certain Ex Multi world champion has some interesting comments on the use of the back brake. so do we start the poll with

Those for using the back brake :- Mick Doohan, Shaun Emmett, Troy Bayliss, Tony Rutter, Troy Corser, Jeremy McWilliams etc
Those against use of back brake :- Andy Ibbott and everybody that appears to have attended the CSS

As you can tell this is one of my favourite debates.

Bloody 'ell kev...next you'll be ranting on about tyre warmers for track days!!!:roll:

Well Harv i'm not sure if you have done a CSS level or not, if you have did they send you out on pre-warmed tyres behind instructors that had just pulled the warmers off their bikes. Can't recall the R6 cup boys using them either.
I say use what ever your comfortable with, I get fed up with people telling me its wrong to use the back brake and how to ride my bike. Even if I spent a million pounds on lessons I still wouldn't be up to the standards I dream of. Thats why the post on use of the bikes potential is interesting, if I could improve 1% each year for the rest of my life I still wouldn't get to 100%

LOL

'Even if I spent a million pounds on lessons I still wouldn't be up to the standards I dream of. Thats why the post on use of the bikes potential is interesting, if I could improve 1% each year for the rest of my life I still wouldn't get to 100%'

Come on Kev...your not that old!:bouncy:

When it comes to professional racing, it's simply down to the gifted ability of that person. Some people can just naturally ride a bike quick and sometimes find it very hard to explain why.

A lot of their techniques also go against what is taught at the schools, and therein lies the problem - you simply cannot teach natural ability!

Obviously there are things that you can learn to ensure you're doing it the right way, or to improve your style and gain confidence, but these are all taught from someone who has their own view.

If it was as easy as being taught then, as Skidlids says, the podiums at races would simply be full with people who have the money to do the training and that's simply not the case.

The race schools do serve their purpose, and I'm not knocking them, but there's a lot to be said for racing the way you feel comfortable, and fastest, with rather than copying one particular riding style.

I doubt CSS teach you to back it into the corners like Rossi on any of their levels! :D

I don't use it usually cos my foot can't reach the damn thing the lever is at such an awkard angle and you cant adjust it ! (like the handlebars) it's the only thing i don't like about my duke the lack of adjustability on the bars and back brake.

and if i do manage to get to the brake lever it feels like a sponge anyway!!! :o

you shouldn't have to actually break something on the bars (the locking pin) to adjust them !!!!

Andy Ibbott doesn't tell you it's wrong to use the rear brake. He just says that, in his opinion, it's not worth using. They are two totally different things.

I've never used the rear brake on any of the bikes I've owned, it just doesn't feel right or comfortable for me. And as for trailing the front brake in to corners, well, I do that too. Guess I'm getting it all wrong :puzzled:

To use your back brake or not to use it...that is the question.

It's just like everything else to do with riding a bike isn't it? Whatever works for you.

Surely it's the same thing as the how much do you hang off debate or the knee down/not knee down thing. No wrongs, no rights, whatever feels comfortable. OK so the theory says that you'll be able to use less lean angle for a given speed if you hang off and therefore be able to go round safer, or go even faster. I happen to hang off (not as much as I'd like to, cos it feels a bit dodgy once my outside toe starts to come off the peg) but there are loads of people who are just as quick as me that sit bolt upright.

There are loads of different riding styles out there - look how different all the racers are...Ok so they use their back brake but what else do they have in common

Hey Jools
I agree wiff you for once
What feels comfortable to you, is usually right
I still dont use the back brake, even in "panic" situations

rgds
mort

ps this thread has run and run since Jan this year so it obviously has attracted a lot of thoughts:roll::roll:

Yeah, and I still haven't got round to fixing the sticky brake pedal either ;)

Ant
The bolt that the pedal pivots on can grab the pedal if its too tight.
Also squashes the o-rings a bit and they can grab.
Remove it all, clean it up, blob of threadset in the threaded engine casing, grease the spring etc then offer it back up and tighten the bolt until it starts to grip the pedal then back it off a bit, works for me.
:eureka:

Cheers mate, having you describe that reminds me that I have actually done it!

I found that one of the o-rings on the pivot was the wrong size (too big) and was squashing when tightened, hence the gripping of the lever.

Having checked the spares manual, the o-rings should be the same size on both sides (same part number) so I replace the larger one with the right size o-ring from a pack I'd bought in B&Q for 99p to fix something else - probably a leaky tap or something.

Anyway, job done. Doesn't mean I use the back brake though :D

I'm an avid rear brake fan, got mile r caliper, wavy disk and a nicely greased pivot shaft, oo err. Really and utterly great for shrugging off that last bit off excess speed or tightening the line going into corners. Somedays I like to get it tapped out in fifth and hit the brake and drift it sideways as far as I can. The best fun is then dropping the clutch in third and spinning up the rear to power out the corner with a huge rooster tail. Hey wait a minute, thats the motorcrosser.....
I still think it settles the rear on the road bike and was put there for a reason, if they would fit I'd have two..:D

First I will admit that I don't know the answer here. This is what I have heard at different track schools

From CSS yesterday Andy Ibbott does not recomend trail braking for road or trackday unless you are already at a very high level of ability. Basically he was saying trailbraking is for racing only..

At the CSS schools they teach that anything that puts more weight on the front after turning in is bad. That would include front brake, rear brake or cutting the throttle.

I was at the ESS school where Mick Doohan was interviewed by MCN. Mick was saying that by applying the rear after the front it would settle the bike and slow the bike quicker.

He also said that Rossi and others have rubber bands around the rear brake to stop them from overusing the rear and locking the rear. This was not related to baking the bike in.

Mick Doohan (and some other racers) had thumb brakes for the rear so that they can stay on the ball of the foot and still use the rear.

That's interesting!

Does the Mille caliper fit on the stock bracket?
Main problem I have with the back brake, like most folks I think, is that it doesn't stay air-free for five minutes. Bleed it., and the pedal's firm for a while, but in no time it's hitting the fairing panel again. :(
I'm getting one of those Mityvac bleeders to try to get to grips with this problem.

Don't bother with a MityVac just yet ( as they're a bit pricey)

Try these http://www.speedbleeder.com They're dead cheap, and I'm their newest fan.

I've fitted one to my rear caliper, bled the thing through to no bubbles in a couple of minutes and can now lock the rear up at town speeds.

The pedal is now very firm too.

Jason

Caliper should fit straight on. I had a problem with what appeared to be mine flexing and a mate had a spare. It look to be just a slighlty newer design but does use different pads. Not sure it is any better just different.