Dual plugging !!! Has anyone done it on an older Duke?
 

Well - a carb'ed model anyways.....

Yet another LONG TERM project in the back of my head, anyone ever tried twin plugging at all on an 'SS'???

Cheers - Frank

Is it physically possible? surely you'ld have to change the head completely!

maybe could you put the barrels and heads from a twin plug model onto the old engine ????

[Edited on 23-2-2004 by Nigel C]

Apparently, it can be done according to this link here

Along with some excellent reports on two valve tuning.

There's some four valve stuff on there as well.

[Edited on 23-2-2004 by Jools]

Cheers Jools,

I think I saw that article a while back and I must admit I only concentrated on the dyno bits.

I suspect twin plugging would go the same way as I did my achient BMW many years ago - a 8mm spark plug is fitted in somewhere opposite the original, fit some twin output coils and voila!!!

Cheers - Frank

There is a superlight 1 on ebay at the moment running twin plugs amongst other mods, looks a nice bike

Ian

Mine's a twin-plugger, but it was like that when I got it.

It was done by Baines a few years back at considerable expense to the previous owner.

I haven't ridden a standard 900SS so I don't know how much of a difference it makes.

Frank, seems like you are itching for some tinkering. How about you list all of the mods you have done so far and we'll come up with suggestions for the next step (including parts from ebay auctions!)
:lol:

seriously, Frank ur very welcome to come down and have a look before taking a drill to your head.

cheers, Chi

[Edited on 24-2-2004 by chicken]

Thanx for all the info guys:

Nigel:

I had an old BMW twin plugged in the past by:

Mez Porting

BM's are much cheaper than dukes and I got mine gas flowed and twin plugged for around £120 from memory.

He also does other stuff so must give the guy a plug (geddit :D I could'nt resist !!!) on the site.

Ian:
I might just email the guy as its an awfully pretty bike...he might want to try and sell it here if it does not sell on Ebay......good spot, my friend!

Chi:
Cheers Bud - If I'm ever down your way again (Sliverstone was the closest last year mind!!!) I love to see your Duke.

I didnt realise how many posts Ive put out about the mods I've done already - just look back through the 'SS' forum posts for me and there are quite a few posts in there.

Cheers - Frank

Ok is your advance adjustable? Didnt think so, your not really gonna get any benefit from it really. The idea being to shorten your flame path and allow less advance.

Plus isnt there a belt a pully and a cover right where you want the second plug?

You'll need to but twin output coils

Nothing worthwhile is ever easy !!!

(I wonder which bike owner said that first)?

From what I understand the ignition isnt 'normally' able to be altered too much however, different ignition modules are available.

I always got the impression that the 2nd plug couldnt be 180° away from the original but thats an obvious compromise as a few people seem to have do it already.

Piccies of cylinder head please Chi !!!!!

Cheers - Frank

been out of town for a couple of days so didn't see this till now.

Will post a couple of piccies for you in the next couple of days frank.

The second plugs go through holes in the cambelt covers. The distance between the sides of the belts is wide enough to easily clear the head of the plug (and a straight-end ignition lead).

The coils themselves don't look standard - I'll take some pictures of them and see if anyone can identify them.

I have been told the engine runs smoother with the twin plug conversion because of better combustion but I have no way of verifying this. However, doesn't the latest SS have twin plugs? Seems silly for Ducati to go to the extra expense if there wasn't any benefit...

An cheaper alternative would be better coils plus splitfire plugs?

Still - piccies to come.
Chi

[Edited on 29-2-2004 by chicken]

Yes they are but i guess Ducati spent some time making the ignition work too. Maybe?

The idea is that your halfing you flame distance and more importantly halfing the time it takes so therefore you can burn more gas in the more usefull period when the piston is in the best postion to take advancte of it ie as close after TDC as possable. Without retarding the igntion the bike may well be smoother but any more power???

Im not well up on Dukes in this area but on old Guzzi and BMs it popular. The chember is a worse desgign than the Deadcati one and they have mechanical advance wihch is easily limited in its advance degrees.

If you can get a different igntion box with less adanvce normally in the region of about 6' then that dounds great. I know dtna do a system (dyna 3000 is it?) with programable advance curves, that sounds ideal. Twin output dyna coils are easy to get if expensive. But in the states if I was you while the doller is rock bottom.

Look forward to the pics. i gess the plug comes out just under the pulley. should be ok if its done right.


do you knw the standard advance for a stock single plug 900ss. Be interesting to look at what Ducati have done with the newer bikes and compare, but i think the chamber is a completly different shape (3 valves?) so it may not mean much. still.....

Let us know how you get on.

Kev

piccies attached.

Thanks very much Chi.....

Thats explained a few mysteries to me.

Damn - one of those plug caps looks close to a pulley to me but OK with the cambelt cover on I guess???

Thanx again

Frank

yes - when I took the cap off, it looked slightly rubbed at the point where it would meet the pulley. However, the hole in the cover pulls it away enough.

I should probably get the space around filled - the last thing I need is a stray stone going in there and chewing up the belt.

cheers, Chi

Even good olde Halfords sell small rubber grommet kits that you should be able to cut to size / shape easily enough.

Ever had your motor dyno'd BTW ????

Frank

It hasn't been dyno'd while I've had it, but I do have a chart from the previous owner - not as impressive as yours Frank!

Will scan it this weekend for you.

Chi

Thanx Chi,

I'd be interested in seeing that, hope to get mine done again before too long but sadly, she didnt even want to fire up today! New plugs needed I think :(

Frank

Frank, here's the dyno chart.
I don't understand what it means - my bandit 600 is supposed to have 80hp but the ducati seems to be so much faster?

Any comments?
Chi

Twins ALWAYS feel faster marra :D

WOW - you must have been well pleased with that Dyno session - I can hardly believe the results myself....an 18.8 bhp increase in power !!!!!! Even if it is EEC horsepower, thats an astounding 33% increase if my puny maths are right.

Frank

english please frank! I'm a complete ignoramus when it comes to the technicals.

Like I said, it wasn't my bike when this was taken. An 18% increase does sound good but I was wondering whether the second result is actually any good for my bike - sub 80bhp doesn't sound very good........:(

Here is the original post I made with my Dyno graph.

There are some useful links in there put in by some of the other club guys....well worth checking out.

I'm still trying to find out original HP claims for our bikes but they do seem variable in the "real world".

You seem to have done some very sensible mods already, anything else sounds expensive eg - cutting different valves, fitting another cam / carbs / exhaust system.

Just enjoy it :D

Cheers- Frank

ooops forgot the link:

http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/co...d.php?tid=6226

Freaky - Friday - Frank

Just to make us both feel better, here is a nice thread from Fordie to make us feel better......

http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/co...id=12&tid=2624

Frank

I seem to recall that the length of the intake manifolds is the prime reason why the SS drops off so dramatically above around 7000 rpm. If you fit individual FCRs with shorter Malossi intakes I'm sure the power continues past it's current peak. There's a page here that goes into it a bit http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/carbs.htm

What do the SSie's rev to?

One thing that strikes me about Chi's bike isn't so much the 18 % gain but more the lousy performance before the work. From 4000 rpm onwards it's all over the place. My K&N'd but otherwise standard SL made 73hp last time it went on a dyno. It's difficult to compare bikes power outputs from different dynos but were we to equate Chi's first run with my standard bike then his second run would be in the mid 90s..... Does that make sense?

Yep.....Keenly observed as ever my friend, but I didnt what to bring anyone down by mentioning initial power outputs !!! :o

I've been told not to bother with carb changes or inlet mods as long as I'm running my big bore kit. EVen though I did fancy either some FCR's or nice Malossi's.

Having said all that, I really need to put my little scoot on a dyno to see if the work I've done has made any difference before I do any other engine work.

Handling is next on my to do list........

Cheers - Frank

The thing about Chi's bike is someone spent an absolute fortune on it and then sold it.... Saying that now it's "done" it's got a lovely fat spread of torque and that's the stuff that puts a smile on your face on the road.

Chi: Did it run right when you got it (ie they got the engine sorted before they sold it) or did you get it done yourself?

Personally I'm not altogether convinced that twin plugs would make a difference power wise and unless the exhaust is a full system it's not gonna shred tarmac. That leaves the hi-compression pistons. I quite fancy fitting a set next winter but from doing some reading some "established" Ducati tuners don't reckon they up the power a massive amount.

That'd leave a big bore kit, which would be nice, or a set of Keihin FCR41s, which you can get from Chris Kelly for £460 plus shipping. If only I had a fullproof way of avoiding customs (and £460)....

It was already running nicely when I got it - pulling right through the range - the only thing that took the smile off my face on the ride home was a very disconcerting scraping noise on the first three left-handers........then I put the side stand up.

I think the hi-comp pistons make it a lot harder to start first thing - lots of wheezing before it picks up.

Frank, I'm going to be up at Cornerspeed on Saturday if you want to see the bike - a lot close to you than East London!

cheers, Chi

Hey Chi
 

been following this thread recently
As you prob know, Ive got a SSie and it pulls well from 4 thru' to 7 1/2 or 8 thousand. Last year on track days would rev to 9,000 then splutter. Now Nelly's fitted the hi comp pistons, want to see what its done. He also put it on the exhaust gas analyser and remapped the chip by moving the powerband up the range a little.
What time saturday you at Nelly's,?? as Im his (in)voluntary helper.........I make the coffee when he's busy, which is most of the time.
If its NICE, I'll come on the bike, otherwise its 4 wheels for me
rgds
mort:roll::roll:

Hi Mort. Be great to meet you. Have sent you U2U with details.
cheers, Chi

Damn, work commitments....shifts are a blessing and a curse occasionally.

Hope you guys have fun.

See you at Cadwell maybe ???

Frantic Frank