Ducati Race Airbox Filters
 

Just seen these on e-bay, I know there has been discussion on filters in the past, but seems these are new on the market. Have e-mailed the guy to see if he has dyno graphs showing performance improvements, but what do the tech gurus think about them? Suspect that any improvements might be negated by not having the velocity stack.
Ducati Race Airbox Filters

There not new. They've been around for a while. They are slightly worse than the big filter that fits over both intakes, like the the JHP type filter, from what I recall.

Skidlids has a set coming direct from the man selling them.

Once I get them and fit them to my bike I'll let you know how they perform, I noticed them on one of the websites I posted last week, under the heading Hide your Credit Card, mentioned them to a couple of people and now got some coming from a lot closer to home.

From where and whom? :)

From the same person who has them on Ebay, namely Khush, who dispite no longer posting on the board is still living and breathing Ducati's and keeps in contact with a few members.

I was indeed tempted b a set of these but have managed to pick up a mint JHP style one for a song so will be trying that first ..... if it doesnt do what it should, these are next ....

Dibble

PS Red_Leader, I'm home now ... nighty night ...

Here's a recent posting to the Ducati Index:

Those filters suck! I have no idea why, but I have witnessed, with my own eyes three different dyno runs on the same bike (Race only 996) and the difference between those mushroom filters and a FBF filter was about 10 rwhp. The bike belongs to Ben Fox at http://www.foxperformanceengines.com/. He also could not figure out why those little filters would rob so much power but the bottom line is that they do. We tested a Pipecross filter on my friends 998 and the difference with the filter and without a filter was less than 1 hp.
mr. duc

Regarding the MadDuc product ...

Maybe the best way to answer your question is to go to their web site and review the their marketing presentation.

They state: “We designed this air filter system by having these critical issues in mind:”

Best Air Flow Maximum Air Circulation in the Air Box (All after market filters consume a large volume of the air box.)

Critique: They state their filter has the best air flow maximum air circulation IN THE AIR BOX and mention that other AFTERMARKET in-the-air box filters take up more volume. The stock filter is outside the air box so it obviously has better “air flow maximum air circulation in the air box.” Notice that they don’t claim that their device has lower air flow restriction than the stock filter. It doesn’t.

Complete Sealing of the Air Intake Bell Housing From Outside Elements ( Reducing the chance of engine ceasing in case of a crash by sucking in gravel.)

Critique: We can give them this: IF you crash, AND the gas tank becomes dislodged from the air box breaking the seal, AND gravel gets into the air box this device will prevent engine ingestion and further damage caused by the crash. Your insurance company will thank you.

Quick and Easy Change and Cleaning Procedure (Raise the gas tank and snap the filters over the bell housings.)

Critique: This is good. Given the tiny filter element you’ll be doing this a lot.

No Distortion at High RPM (Most available filters cave into the bell housing at higher RPM.)

Critique: The stock filter doesn’t.

And Finally, More Horse Power, More Horsepower, More Horsepower….

Critique: At Last, Good, Good, Good…. (but show us the dyno charts comparing it with the stock filters and any others for that matter). To be fair, they don’t really say that their devices will actually give you more horsepower, they simply say that they designed “having these critical issues in mind.”

One more point (that they fail to mention as a design objective): Show us that the device is actually a FILTER by some information about the particulate size it stops relative to the stock filter or any other competing aftermarket filter.

Caveat emptor.

PS. Next time you're doing some dyno work, place your finger near the top edge of one of the velocity stacks and watch the power output drop-off big time. This is absolutely the worst place to place a filter because it turns laminar (smooth) airflow into turbulent flow.

PS. Next time you're doing some dyno work, place your finger near the top edge of one of the velocity stacks and watch the power output drop-off big time. This is absolutely the worst place to place a filter because it turns laminar (smooth) airflow into turbulent flow.


I agree 100 percent with this, a bell mouth needs un obstructed airflo over a smooth rounded edge, the air being sucked into the bell mouth does not come from above the mouth but from the sides.

Chris:roll:

Best I throw the 998 shower injection in the bin as some idiot placed something the size of a finger just above the bellmouths.
on the other hand if you have carbon airtubes without the filter facility they are a alternative to the larger filter that goes inside the airbox, maybe I will have them fitted to the 916 in time for the dyno run at Moto Rapido

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by skidlids]

He means place something at the side of the bellmouth, where the radius is, not in front of it.
If you can get hold of a copy of David Vizards book "Tuning BL A series engines" its well worth a read. He did a whole series of flow bench tests whith various configurations of flat edges, radius etc and it clearly shows that the shape at the edge of the intake is critical to the airflow peformance.

Hope this doesnt breach any copyright!!

That book is a blinking good read. It helped me many years ago when i was tweaking my mini.:lol:

One thing i learnt was the different shapes of belmouths and the effect they can have on engine performance.:devil:

I thought the support arms for the injector on a 998 were at the side of the radius.
Shazaam has previously done a excellent post on the draw backs of fitting a large filter inside the airbox as the Helmholtz effect of the airbox is compromised, so suggest this is not the ideal way to go about filtering your air supply, trouble is if you have carbon airtubes without a filter option what do you do. These may well be the answer, so as I see it they are well wort trying.
I also don't totally take for granted what Dynos tell me. When racing my TL1000S I fitted a TFi fuel injection unit. Had a before dyno run, took it racing and played with the settings where I managed to improve the drive out of corners, it pulled strogly down the straits and my lap times dropped. Put it back on the dyno after and apparently had a few horsepower less, which is the opposite from what I felt I got in the real world with speeds in excess of 140mph

The answer is in the RS style tube filter, skidlids. Only problem is it's expensive, but then what isn't. I've just installed them on mine where I was previsouly running without any filter (on tracks only).

Kev,
Can not remember who`s filters they are, will go through my mags, but they fit over the the ends (somehow) of the ram air entry tubes as they enter the airbox. From all the work we did on the ZXR ram air system the larger the filter size the better, as it will pass more air, so the only filter I have seen so far is the one that is cylyndrical & is attatched to each ram air intake tube as it enters the air box.

BTW, how is your mate after his spill???

Chris.:roll:

Chris I know the filters you mean and they look like the ideal solution for the shower injection bikes. On my 916 Strada race bike I have been running without filters or the gauze at the entrance to the airtubes (have seen one of these wedge open a throttle butterfly once) but as The bike is no longer going to be raced I was looking at fitting a filter, these look like a simple solution and worth trying, so I have a set coming and I will try them on my road going 916 along with fitting the air tubes off the race bike and see what differences I notice if any. I'm not after any extra power, but want to give these a try as I see them as a possible solution to filtering when running Carbon tubes with no filter option.
I know one person using them and he has given me good feedback.
IF anybody else has tried them and compared them to a JHP filter or Pipercross, K&N or standard filters I would be interested in their views, otherwise consider this as a product test.
As for Gordy he appears to be recovering fine, but the bike maybe a write-off, if the insurance guy agrees with the shop then he will soon be shopping for a new bike.

Kev
PS Chris I'll try and give you a call tomorrow and catch up on your hospital visit.

Filter
 

I have the carbon air scoops and a foam filter over the stacks. What real world power loss are we talking about?
The induction roar is now awesome and the foam is to prevent flies, grit and small children being sucked in!

To summarise Shazaam's previous postings (if I'm reading it right! )...

It's all about volumes of air, both filtered and unfiltered, that the engine can suck in.

Basically your bike works better when it has plenty of air to suck in. However, you need to filter that air to remove the dust, grit and small animals. Sucking air through an air filter is harder than sucking it straight in - therefore some "effort" is required to filter the air, which means something loses out.

The way Ducati set up their bikes with a very large surface air filter in the tubes means that air can be sucked into the airbox quite easily, so you end up with a large volume of filtered (clean) air in the airbox ready to be sucked in.

If you put a smaller surface area filter over the belmouths, this filtered air all but disappears - air has to be drawn through the filter as there is no "reserve" of filtered air in the airbox.

You will mainly notice the difference in throttle response rather than outright power.

From the diagram that Rockhopper posted, you can see just how fickle the engine is at drawing air into the belmouths with different designs of belmouth edge - think of the effect that putting a filter on top of this has!

For me, the ideal setup would be Pipercross MPX038 stock-replacement filters. These have better filtration than stock filters and are reuseable too - a bargain at around 18 quid a pair.

If you want to get really picky, spend the extra few quid on carbon tubes that take stock filters and use the Pipercross ones.

You can see Shazaam's original article here:
http://ducatisportingclub.com/contro...d.php?tid=1701

I think your summary is pretty accurate, Antonye. The filter in the tube is by all accounts the best approach. It provides a large surface as you say. Whether the filtration effectiveness of the stock filter foam is good enough for you, is an individual judgement, I guess. The piper cross replacement foam is certainly a finer foam, but will undoubtedly increase the "effort" slightly of pulling the air through it. How much difference this makes in terms of engine performance in the real world is questionable. It's most likely a worthwhile trade-off. I can tell you that the RS race filters are the same approach as the stock filters and the foam is very similar to stock if not the same. The advantage you gain with the RS setup is a very quick change of filters. Again, not really that important for street bikes.

I agree with you Antonye, using the stock setup with the Pipercross foam is the way to go. Just make sure the tank-to-airbox seal is sufficient. If you're worried about sucking in gravel, if the tank comes of in a crash, fit a tip-over cut-out switch.

Nice one!
 

Great posts has sorted out all my questions going to leave it as is. Cheers

Kev
Have you got the air filters yet?

If so what they like?

So whats the best overall filter for the Ducati's (manufacture type), that you guys would say gives the best flow?

if
 

your using filters in the airtubes, be sure to check the bolts holding the locating pin at the front of the tank are tight.

one of mine became loose & fell in the belmouth of the vertical cyl. bent valves & a snapped closing lever was the result:(

I have just fitted a C/F air box and up graded my old JHP filter with his new "K&N" style under tank filter system, it seems ok and as JHP have a reputation to uphold I can only think that maybee they have done their sums as to wheather these work ok.

Have a loom on their web site for a piccy of them fitted to a 998.