Its broken down again!
 

I think my bike doesnt like trackdays! It decides to wrap its tits in as a protest every time I think!

Anyway, riding along on the road today, rev counter starts bouncing between the real revs and zero for about 10 secs, it then splutters and eventually stalls.

Wouldnt restart, wouldnt even turn over, starter sollenoid just clicks.

However it restarts fine with my mates car and jump leads though. But as soon as you remove the leads it does the the same thing in the same sequence.

Any thoughts welcome please!

My thinking is either Battery or regulator rectifier (thought it does have the later black finned one).

Also, pulling the brake lever with it idling causes the rev counter reading to rise a bit but the actual revs dont!!

Please Help, Joel

[Edited on 7-4-2004 by Billythekid]

is it a new battery? the battery would be my first choice, cant you borrow one fully charged and see if it still does it? another thing is how old is the bike?

I had something simular and cut out when pressed the brake and turned out the battery was that flat it wouldnt light the brake light which coursed it to stop. stuck a battery on it and its been ok since "touch wood"

Had just the same thing with 996s. It was the battery in my case.

Its the battery that came with the bike when I bought it about 4months ago.

Its a '95 748 bp.

And I live in the sticks in Devon, dont know of another duc for many a mile!!!

Cheers for the replies though, will take a trip to civilisation tomorrow to try and get one!

Joel

Have your battery load tested. If it checks out ok, it's probably your voltage regulator. If you can get the bike started, put a voltmeter across the battery terminals. At about 2500-3000 rpm you should be seeing 13.5-14.5 volts. Above or below that range points to a bad regulator.

Regulator
 

I've just had a similar experience - the rev counter jumping up and down - but only when I had the indicators on. Then no juice when I came to restart, just the solenoid clicking.

Turned out to be the regulator/rectifier and therefore no charge going to the battery - as the battery ran low the voltage drop was causing the rev counter to wave in time with the indicators.

New Reg/Rec is about £85 from a Ducati dealer - less from a non-franchise supplier (they're in the free Busters glossy in MCN this week for under £60 I think).

Giles

Steve,
dual phase, thats a new one on me, usually either single phase or three phase.

Ok fitted both brand new reg rectifier and battery today, took it out, 20 miles away from home it did it again, same symptoms!

WTF can it be?!

Im really loosing patience with the whole unreliability issue now

Joel

well thats a strange one! you need to put a voltage tester on it and see if it is charging when the bike is running and go from there.

An erratic tach usually indicates a bad battery. Same behavior with a new battery suggests a poor earth connection to the frame.

Where is the main earth on the chassis? its certainly a good idea, I know a bad earth on a car can cause havock!!

It almost seems heat related as well,
runs fine for 5 mins, tacho goes
30 secs later bike stops.
wont even turn over once stopped, neutral light barely illuminates.
But leave it for over 30 mins and itds fine again, bach to step one?!

Odd

A pretty miffed Joel

Have you checked all the battery and regulator/rectifier wiring? Really prone to melting and breaking down especially the yellow wires that come across the bike from the stator. Iv'e seen bikes displaying all the symptoms you desribe and when the wiring was checked, all the connectors were melted and the insulation from the yellow wires was completely gone for about 4 or 5 inches back from the connectors!

Am I stating the obvious?

The main battery to earth connection is not on the frame, it's on the crankcase - look at about 11 o'clock on the clutch cover,go in about aninch past the cover & slightly above the swing arm pivot & you'll see a button headed allen bolt holding the earth lead on. They can be a total barsteward to remove.
I've got some new battery leads for mine & have got to take the old ones off..... not looking forward to that!

Ive had a quick look at those yellow wires and they seemed ok, not followed them the whole way back mind. Also the alternator stator is only about 500 miles old, whether its duff?!

Managed to borrow a multi meter and a bm80 at last too so ill have a decent examination tomorrow.

I'll let you know of progress,

Joel

good luck

There must also be an earth connection from the engine to the frame?

Had a simular problem fairly recently,
yes it was the wiring that had burnt through.

Before i knew what the problem was i recharged the battery and the bike ran for a while, had all the wiring checked out and the problem was found, happy hunting!

My Puch Maxi was always reliable!:lol:

My SEnna used to do that, including a very embarrassing lap at the Nurburgring riders club where we were all meant to keepo lights on when at front or rear and the instructors used to go psycho if you didn't have light on. Sitaution got so bad I had to turn lights off at Bergwerk ('bout half way round) and even when I applied brake light it would splutter. (you ever tried to go round 'ring withOUT braking?) In the end it was a loose connection between alternator and regulator somewhere, so it's always worth checking all connections I reckon.

Checked all wiring, its all spot on.
Resistanse accross the stator is as it should be acordig to haynes.
But AC voltage is about 1/2 - 2/3 what it should be att all revs acording to haynes.
With ign off batt ha 12.8V accross terminals, running its bout 11.5-11.8V, so my guess is alternator stator, must have shorted a few windings somewhere!

All earths and cable continuities spot on,

I have now had enough, I need some persuation not to go to Honda!!!

Joel

The most common reason for a low alternator voltage output measurement is that the stator lead wire insulation is heat damaged. To diagnose this, strip away the common sheath that the stator wires run in and then separate the wires from themselves and from any grounded component. Then re-measure their output AC voltage. Examine the insulation for any softening due to heat damage that will cause them to short together at voltage levels lower than the alternator's rated output level. It's rare to see failed stator windings, but it's very common to see stator lead wires overheat and damage their insulation - because Ducati has supplied seriously under-sized wires - given that they have to carry 30-plus amps. Replacing the wires with a heavier gauge between the stator and the regulator cures the low voltage problem.


http://ducatisportingclub.com/contro...d.php?tid=2042

oh right ok, had a look at as much of them as i could see and they seemed fine, no continuity between thrm and ground as well

No, they short together, not to earth. The insulation on my stator wires was so damaged from the copper in the wires getting too hot that I could scrape off the insulation with my fingernail. Same sub-12 voltage output that you describe.

The wires are held in contact with each other along almost their entire lenght by the sheath and the damaged insulation can't isolate the two wires at the alternator voltages produced at higher rpm. So no charging occurs and after 20 miles or so, the battery discharges completely and the erratic tach/stall problem develops. Take the sheath off and replace the wires with a heavier gauge.
This is a design deficiency that every Ducati pre-1999 superbike owner should correct before these problems develop.

Yep fair one, Im on it. Time is running out rapidly for me now though. Im out the country with work for anout 7 months, leaving in a couple of days. I only wanted one last blast on it!

Joel

:)

Hello mate,

i know that bikes can seem a pain when things go wrong. But dont give up on the Duke yet! Its easy for me to say this cos im not the one pullin me hair out.;)

Just stay with it. Once you get it fixed you will be in love with the bike once more.:roll:

Had a similar problem myself recently.
 

I've read this thread (and Shazaam's linked thread) with great interest.

A week ago my battery (apparently) clapped out. Went to start it after work, and dead as a dodo, tacho needle spinning when the starter button pressed. I use the bike (2001 748) regularly, and have had no charging/electrical problems in the past. As a MY2001 bike, I had the gel-type battery fitted. I got it replaced with the conventional lead/acid YB16LA2.

All seemed well until I went out for a spin this sunny Bank Holiday afternoon, and sure enough the same thiung happened when I stoppped for petrol. When the breakdown guy eventually arrived he got it going no problem with his booster pack, but said the charging system was faulty (I'd managed to figure this out myself ;) ) . So I said "regulator/rectifier?" and he reckoned more likely alternator (but hopefully it's just the wiring as mentioned above).

He also made some comment about swapping the gel-type battery for a conventional one, and wondered if the charging system was compatible with either. Do anyone know if the change from lead/acid to gel-type batteries was accompanied by any change in the rect/reg, or other electrical components? Also I have to say that the guy who sorted me with the battery is an experienced Ducati mechanic, and I'd be surprised if he wasn't fully genned up on this.

Anyway, I'll give him a bell on Tuesday and see what he says.

[quote]Originally posted by moto748

anyone know if the change from lead/acid to gel-type batteries was accompanied by any change in the rect/reg, or other electrical components?


In 2001, the bikes were fited with a revised starter motor gear ratio that drew less current and made it possible to start the bike using a smaller battery. The starter gearing on the early bikes is not well suited to the smaller batteries.

Standard battery 1994 - 2001 model years:

Yuasa YB16AL-A2 (16 AH, 200 CCA, 11.5 lbs.)

Standard battery 2001 - model years:

Yuasa YT12B-BS (10 AH, 125 CCA, 7.6 lbs.)

[Edited on 4-12-2004 by Shazaam!]

Thanks for that, Shazaam,
 

but nothing you've said there precludes me from fitting the 16Ah battery to my 2001 bike, does it?

Anyway, it's going into dock tonight. Hopefully it's nothing more thsn the wiring. I'm told 3-phase alternators are v, expensive, but that they very seldom fail. it's all for the best anyway cos I'm treating it to a new clutch and chain and ally sprocket set.

Funny that in 65000 miles done lately on Ducatis, this is my first electrical/charging circuit problem!

Some would say I've just been lucky! ;)

You've just been lucky.

[quote]Originally posted by moto748
but nothing you've said there precludes me from fitting the 16Ah battery to my 2001 bike, does it?


No, the YB16AL-A2 is an excellent battery. Batteries are rated and compared using their amp-hour (AH) and their cold-cranking amps (CCA) capacity. The higher the AH rating and the CCA rating, the better. The only real downside in selecting a bigger battery is weight. The higher capacity batteries are proportionally heavier.

The AH rating is a measure of reserve capacity. A 16AH-rated battery can produce one amp of current flow for 16 hours, or two amps for eight hours, or 16 amps for one hour, etc. A 10AH-rated battery can only supply about 60% of that. So if you let your bike sit for a month without being on a trickle-charger you'll have a (10-15% less each month) reduced reserve for starting because any battery will self-discharge. Once the bike is started, if you don't ride long enough to fully recharge, you'll be down on CCA's the next time you try to restart.

A 200 CCA-rated battery by definition can supply 200 amps for 30 seconds at 0ºF. We usually don't start our bikes at such low temperatures, but the rating is still informative because it gives a measure of the battery's capability to supply the high current needed to turn-over the engine in less-than-ideal conditions. For example, a fully-charged battery at 80ºF can supply only about 60% of the CCA-rating when the temperatures drop to 32ºF. Further, the CCA-rating of a battery drops as it ages, until it can no longer supply an adequate current to spin the starter fast enough to start the motor. That's when you need a new battery. That's also why the higher the CCA rating, the longer the battery can be expected to last.


As an alternative to a lead-acid battery, there are a couple of maintenance-free batteries worth mentioning because they exceed the AH and CCA capacity of the Yuasa YB16AL-A2 standard battery.

Fiamm-GS F19-12B (19 AH, 200 CCA)

Odyssey PC680MJ (19 AH, 280 CCA, 14.7 lbs.) - dry cell technology, my personal choice.

On the track, weight reduction is more important than these other considerations so the weight-saving battery-of-choice is the sealed and non-spillable AGM maintenance-free Yuasa YTZ7S. It's the same size as the later-year stock battery.

Yuasa YTZ7S (6 AH, 130 CCA, 4.6 lbs.)

Hi all, havnt gone yet.
Ammunitioning went pear shaped yesterday so we've got an extra weekend! Woo hoo.
Anyway picked the bike up earlier, I left it with my local shop to have a play with this week ( trustworthy!). They got it to repeat the fault, but got it charging just by cleaning all the connections etc ( but I did all that!!!). They didnt replace the yellow wires as I asked them too, they'll be fine apparently. They seem to have a lot of faith that it wont happen again but Ive a bad feeling.
Hmm

The idea of selling it has been creeping through my mind recently.

Bill

Ive had enough

[Edited on 10-5-2004 by Billythekid]