What\'s The point
 

Having just watched the Motogp I can only say that the rules differ according to who you are. When last season Tamada made a similar move to that put on Biaggi by Rossi he was penalised but of course Rossi is allowed to get away with it.
At least now we know that it is going to be yet another Rossi benefit year I can save the price of my ticket to Donnington. What with Motogp WSB F1 & the Premiership all being forgone conclusions every year it makes me yearn for the days when sport was interesting.

I thought it was a great race, showing us all that if you put Rossi on a Raleigh Chopper, he would still put it on the podium. When was the last F1 race that 1st and 2nd finished 0.2 apart? (probably the staged Ferrari finish:()
Add the fact that HRC a now bound to give their 'works' riders a good kick up the backside and some new parts to beat Rossi, I don't think Rossi will have it all his own way all year.
As for the Pirelli Cup being a forgone conclusion: Did you not see today's races then? Chili, what a race!:D
Nice one the BBC for showing 2 hours worth.
Matt

I had already said that F1 had become boreing. It is obvious that Biaggi is not good enough to beat or is at least not that desperate to win that he would risk an accident. It was obvious that he could retake biaggi at any time.Yes I did watch WSB and the second race was exiting but that was just one wet round. Would you honestly bet on anyone other than Lacconi or more probably Toseland winning the championship.
Oh for the days when any one of approx 6 riders could win a championship. IMHO the only series worth watching is BSB and as all the rounds of this are being held on the Sundays that I work guess my days of watching racing are over

The diffrence with Tamada was there was aggresive contact, where as for Rossi and Biaggi there was`nt.

Tamada was hard done by anyway and should never have been penalised.

I agree with your point about Tamada being done by but as Rossi actually barged Biaggi off line then the rule (Whether we agree with it or not) should apply to him as well. It is as I said in any sport now the top money men are excempt the rules that effect others. The only exception being F1 where they keep changing the rules to stop Schumachers dominance of the championship

All I saw was Rossi running wide...... Yes it stopped Biaggi re-passing him, but it did look like Rossi went in a bit hot. I've seen the same move been done lots of times. Never saw Biaggi bitching about it, did you?
Now, Tamada and Gib last year was a little differant, as was Hopper with Checa, Bayliss and Edwards. Tamada as i saw it rammed Gib out the way on the way into a right hander. And, if i remember, Rossi was givin a 10 second for breaking rules.

I thought the GP race was great, shame the 'sedici was not to form, and feel for Xaus and Hodgie. I thought both were improving through the weekend on older kit. Xaus, was proved was pushing it yesterday in qualifying, hopw D'antin have a large bodywork budget. Good to see Shakey beat Jezza as well. Bayliss, :o.

WSB, wow, Chili :o nuff said. Toseland :mad: Least he's still young, and lot to learn. Laconi. I still don't know how he got that ride to be honest.

Yes Rossi was given 10 seconds for overtaking on yellow flags. Many other riders have been excluded for this offence.
I am taking nothing away from Rossi's skill as he is obviously one of the all time greats. this is even more reason why he should be treated the same as anyone else.My point was that being a 2 wheeled version of Schumacher i.e. in a class of his own will eventually have the same effect as Schumacher has in F1 and kill a lot of peoples interest in the sport.I have been watching bike racing since the late 50s and it is only in recent years that I have found it becomeing boreing. Of course there have been a few exceptions like Chilli performance today but some of the riding has become shall we say ungentlemanly to say the least. One of the worst examples being Capriossi's move on Harada to win the 250 championship.

OK ****g me off later! but the point must be this !
lets say you had 20 riders & 20 bikes

and the riders skills vary in the same way as the bikes handling and performance do!

What do you think the end of season results would be if all the riders swapped bikes every race
ie, every rider got to ride a briil bike and a crap bike in turn!!!!!!!

answer. rossie would win again
why because he's got talent
and the same would happen in F1


just except the fact that shuey and rossie are the doggs bollies :cool:

Hey I'm not ****ging anyone off!
At no time did I say that Rossi Schuey were not the top men, If you read my posts thats exactly what they are. I have been a Schey fan since his pre F1 days.
It is the fact that they are so good that it annoys me when they resort to questionanable tactics and are allowed to get away with it
I was also making the point that domination by one person or team is not good for the sport. why do think attendances and viewing figures for F1 are down. I find it a bit like watching a replay of a football match when I already know the result

Rocker
Not havin a dig at u mate! and totally agree! but those 2 guys are just the messengers in their given sport. We really need to look at the hype, the 'fat cats' and the fact that the sport we so much love had gone away from riders competing with each other to l'ets see how much money we can throw at this bloke to get him to the top!' People like Jaques Villneuve, Damon Hill spring to mind.
Just my point of view.

I agree entirely. What I am saying is that in the end at first the enthusiast suffers because the pleasure of seeing 2 or more guys fight it out on equal terms has gone and then the sport suffers due to the lack of interst. This is why Bernie Ecclestone is so keen to see more competition in F1

Rocker, you first post you said that the rules differ according to who you are...what a load of tosh.
You also said that its going to be another Rossi benefit year, what a load of cr*p! He deserved all those results coz he's the best man out there, no 'benefit' is just handed to him on a plate - he works hard for it.
Did you actually watch the race, Rossi rode the socks of that Yamaha...the Honda deffo has more power on the straights, you could tell from that from the overhead camera shots, but his still beat Biaggi....and Sete.....just look at the way he wrestled that bike round some of those corners!
This is not going to be a walkover like it would be if he was still on the Honda....
It all just proves that its the man and not the bike....
Its gonnna be a great motogp season!

Suggest you stick to watching UK Gold me old mate. I think they're going to be running the Dick-Van-Dyke show on there soon.:lol:

I have to agree with Dazza, it was clear from the race that Max with his ultra smooth lines had the better bike and was running more conservative to Rossi. I agree Rossi naturally moves the bike around more than Max, as he did on the Honda, but you could tell that the yam was struggling and Rossi was making it look good. Ultimately it can down the the last series of right handers that Vale had absolutely nailed and Max had no clue. this is where the advantage was gained and where Vale made it stick.

When I first saw that pass I thought oh, hang on ... but looking at it you can actually see that Max was already on a wide line and that it wasn't a real block pass. If there was contact that would be another story ... also, Tamada made contact so it's a different story. Rossi's ride today and performance over the weekend was nothing short of awesome and all credit to him for pulling it off. Lets make no mistake though, if he didn't bring Burgess and his crew with him from Honda, fantastic development rider that he is, it probably wouldn;t have happened, well, at least as quickly anyway ....

I think we'll see (nostradamus hat on here) as the MotoGP season progresses that Honda and Ducati will be up there (WTF happened to Troy?????) and that it will still be a tight season. I don't think that Rossi's superior skill will keep the Yam at the front at every track. Makes for an interesting year.

I agree with what you're saying Rocker about the overtaking etc .. but today was different I felt. MotoGP and WSB was good racing, even the first race was good.

I feel spoiled being able to watch so much live racing ... and am appreciating it.

Just my .2p worth ....

TP

Respect for all remember guys, whatever the opinions, - and come on nothing better than a good debate about racing.

My 2 peneth, Today’s racing was very different. Tomada was made an example of due to what had happened the week before on a first bend incident, - one of the Kwaker boys had taken out 2 riders including one of his own I think. Tomada had made contact with Sete, and forced him off the track. He also made very stupid comments about the incident whilst still very hyped after the race, and I think this perhaps alone caused the removal of position. He said he knew what he was doing, he knew the risk to himself and Sete, and he would do it again. Might has well have said ban me know Dorna.

Now today’s race was absoloooooooutley superb, - the race distance flew by so quick. Just a shame we could not see more of the racing going on behind, - but what happened today was monumental for the Sport. Rossi rode his nuts off today to keep ahead, he let Biaggi through just to see where he was quick, but then mentally defeated Max by going by him at the end of the race and riding on the very limit. However the season is far from over. i think today we saw the 3 front runners, with Max and Sete. - Honda I think have been caught napping by not having the new frame sooner, - that RCV is still being developed. They did not expect for 1 minute that Rossi and Yamaha would be out first race guns blazing. Honda are now working 24 hours a day, - and yes Biaggi has more than enough ability to win a championship if he has a better bike than Rossi, - which i think even today he had. He is such a perfectionist he needs everything right, where Rossi will ride round problems. They will get that Honda right for him if they think that he can win a championship, - tey will give him parts before Baros if they think his chances are better, - remember the Honda mentality is that it is more about the bike than the rider.

Firstly I will state once again I have the upmost respect for Rossi's talent If you read my previous posts you wi;ll see this.
I still stand by my comments regarding one rule for one one for another.
As for your final comment I prefer to have a straight foreward debate on racing and not sink to the depths of personal sarcasam as this often leads onto personal abuse. as Ian says respect to all I just stated a personal opinion and I am quite prepared to listen to those of others in the true spirit of debate,What I do NOT want is it to develop into an argument
BTW by benifit year I meant one where he wins easily not one where he has any special benefits other than his exterordinary talent

Surely Honda had seen Yamahas results in pre season testing and should have been ready for it

There seemed some debate in Moto GP that Rossi could only string 20 or so fast laps. Though, i think this was more hype than anything else. Honda was caught with it's pants around it's ankles yesterday big style. I think Honda are missing Mr Rossi, and they have only just realised.
It remains to be seen if Rossi can keep this form through out the year.... and ride at 110% through the year. The safe money has to be on Honda through the year to win, but which rider??? Biaggi as mentioned above needs his bike at 100%, likes of Edwards ,Gib and Rossi ride around problems. I'm not sure what to make of the performance the Repsol Honda's. And as for the Dukes :o I was amazed at their lack of performance, Bayliss being my main cause of worry, as both Hodgie and Xaus out qualified him, and in the race were ahead of him. Capriex I felt was doing a great job on a bad bike.

Going back to 'that' overtake.... I think it was a fair overtake, they were both running wide, and Rossi ran wide on the exit, with a small hint of a block to stop Biaggi re-overtaking him. I saw yesterday the same over taking in 125, 250 and Chilli in WSB. There was a gap, he took it, he never made contact or caused either to crash. I mean, it's not like these guys make contact ever. Toby Moody was quoting Hodgie on Saturday about him and Xaus racing, and Hodgie was quoted as saying he was used to having his knee slider making contact with Xaus's front wheel more than a few times, let alone the bodywork. Look last year, when Toseland overtook Hodgie, contact :o is not the word!
In bike racing, there's gonna be contact, it is part of the sport, infact, any form of motor racing, look at BTCC as an example. If someone makes a gap, and your racing them, any racer would dive for that gap. Sometimes it's dangerous, but, hey, ain't that the point?

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by flanker]

Are you saying this year's MotoGP is going to be predictable:lol:

Going off on a tangent a bit, but what a pity Doohan and Rossi's time in GPs didn't overlap. Could have been like Sheene/Roberts - Roberts/Spencer - Spencer/Lawson - Rainey/Schwantz etc.:sing:

Hey Rocker, this aint an argument, so no hard feelings.
Your very first post came over like you were spitting nails at Rossi, on a bit of a Rossi bash because he won.....you're entitled to your opinon and Im entitled to mine.
The final remark I made about UK Gold had a laughing smiley next to it...meaning it was a joke...:lol:
Anyway, i'll be checking out 'ol Dick van Dyke and let you all know if its any good!

But we must all agree that Rossi rode one hell of a race, didnt he?

He certainly achieved an amazing feat. As for the near coming together, it was exactly that, near. No contact and no likelihood of it as both riders knew the score and trusted each other implicitly.

My 2p's worth.
Rossi rode the wheels off the Yamaha-because he can, he has the talent that no-one else seems to have at this level. But watch Honda give Max another 20BHP-because they can, by simply adjusting the ECU on the bike-Honda hate to lose, especially to the team who 'stole' their rider. There is a structure amongst the Japanese manufacturers that Honda is top and so they will have the best riders, and no other manufacturer will poach their riders-well Yamaha did-interesting times.
The overtake, close, but hey that's racing, no contact so no problem. I personally thought that the ban on Tamada was harsh-if they applied those rules to the 125 class they would have to execute Roberto Loccatelli!:lol:, and about half of the others.
Bayliss-the bike is only 1 month old guys, and they are still setting it up, they got Capi's more dialled in for him but Troy was riding round BIG problems-it'll come good.
I think this will be the best GP season we have seen for a very long time.
That was a lot for 2p-you get your money's worth with me!:lol:

For those that suggested that I was talking uninformed rubbish I suggest you read Michael Scott's colum in todays MCN. Of course you could also suggest he knows nothing about GPs either

Don't forget the Bank Holiday Monday rounds Rocker.

They fall on the Bank Holidays that I/m working as well. Oh the joy of working in public transport. At least I'm off for the May day run to Hastings

Michael Scott is missing the point - he's saying the MotoGP season isnt going to be exciting because of the result at Welkom.....

Not true, that race was as exciting as they come, and both the Hondas and the Yamaha have room to improve - so the racing will always be close this year.

But dont dispair - he'll be off to F1 after 2005.....then Biaggi will still be on his Honda and he'll be winning every round, and then you'll all have the same thing to moan about...

So Michael Scott is wrong then. Of course what we he know after many years working in and writing about GPs?
Are you saying that by 2006 that there will be nobody coming through the ranks that will be good enough to challenge Biaggi? If so the MotoGP really is in a bad way.
Once again (and for the last time I hope) there is no need for you Rossi fans to get dso defensive as I an NOT saying that he is not skillful in fact I am saying that it his dominance that is the problem.
If you thought that race was the most exciting ever then you cant have been at Siverstone in 1979. Of course those were the days when 5 or 6 different riders could have won the championship and battles occured at every round not just the odd few. thank God we still have the 250 & 125 classes
BTW I am not moaning but just expressing a point of view. I assume that this is permissible on this board.

I was pleased that Rossi took the first race,I thought his overtake a fair one,if Max was on the ball he would have stuffed it up the inside of Rossi as he ran wide.
I think racing is as much about psychology as machinery and in that respect Rossi's beaten them all,all he had to do is beat Max once on what Max knows is an inferior machine and he will crush Biaggi's spirit,from which it may be difficult for him to get over .
I doubt he'll win the next race though as a humiliation like that will get HRC pulling out all the stops to beat him.
What will be interesting,though and no-ones mentioned this yet,is that Rossi is a very gifted development rider which Max et al (except maybe Edwards) are not,I expect the Yamaha to get very much better as the season continues and the honda will just get more parts ,or more powerful ,or something,but they wont have that development experience and expertise that has shaped the RCV up until now,so may probably lose their way as they fiddle with all the different parameters.
This is shaping up as the most interesting GP season in ages,roll on Donington!

Dave G You say that the Yamaha will just get better whilst honda will loose their way. You say that Rossi is far superior to Biaggi. How does this add up to the most interesting season for ages. Even if every round is like the first it is still only a 2 horse race for the championship
I have just checked the heading for this board as I thought I had logged into the Rossi Fan Club Message Board by mistake;)
Could the fact that I dared to disagree with some of his diciples be the reason that my avatar no longer seems to appear on my postings?

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by Rocker]

Whatever happens lets hope Rossi wants to win on 3 makes of bike when he's won on the Yamaha and come to Ducati :sing:

Come on Rocker,Rossi's just an entertaining rider,I dont have much time for Biaggi I'll admit, as he has a tendancy to blame everything but himself for not winning.
I would say its going to be interesting as its by no means a foregone conclusion,I dont see Rossi winning every race,particularly not now,Honda have six riders and I expect they will flood those riders with new stuff just to beat Rossi to save face.I think even the possibility of Honda NOT winning has to be as entertaining a prospect for racing as any in recent years-even if the winning rider remains the same.Just as some have called WSB the Ducati cup the GP seems to have become a bit of a Honda cup.
As others have said ,he seemed to ride the wheels off that thing and yet couldn't shake off max,if he had made a mistake max would have won,so once max gets his composure back and convinces himself that getting the latest widgit from HRC doesnt stop him from winning he be back on the top step.
Personally I've big hopes for Colin Edwards and through the season I hope to see him improve a lot,but lets not knock an undoubtedly talented racer just because he seems universally popular.
I can certainly criticize his on-bike sartorial style,thats a bit too 'yoof' looking for me,but I cant fault his riding.
;)

Dave G PLEASE PLEASE read my posts. How many times do I have to say it. I am NOT criticising Rossis riding skill. Repeat I am not knocking Rossis riding skill.
I enjoy a good debate on racing or almost any subject. However if one person in the debate doesn't listen to (or read) the others view then it stops being a debate and becomes an argument.
Personaly I have enough going on in my life with out getting involved in unnescessary arguments so I am dropping out of this thread. This is a pity because it could have been entertaining:mad:

...Woman comment coming up!...

OK...not EVER really been into watching the racing BUT...
OMG:o:o:o:o:o
What a race...have to say...was doing alot of jumping up and down on the settee!...AND the guys 40...On his own 2 year old blinkin bike AND he whipped the ass off the factory souped up duke version...How much was spent on that I ask...AND
Where did Chilli get those tyres...I want some!!!!!;)

AND now not understanding any of what you are "harpin" on abaht...I shall go, be the domestic goddess and go back to cooking the tea!:P;)

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by kwikbitch]

I must admit I was suprised at the outcome of the first round of the Moto GP, thats not to say that I did not think Rossi could win, but I did expect him to be battling for the win with more than one Honda. maybe the next round will be more of what I expected, With Rossi mixing it with 4 or 5 Hondas and hopefully a Ducati or two. I will be interested to see where the 2nd Yamaha finishes as this will show how well the bike is improving, I would like to see Abe benifit from Rossi's input into the Yamaha as I think he still has the potential to run at the front. And if anybody thinks that if Rossi was to depart the scene then Biaggi would be out in front on is own, have obviously forgotton the proven capabilites of Caparossi, Barros and Gibernau.

As for the overtake, perfectly fair in my book, I've seen a lot worse in my 6 years of club racing.
Kev

PS I was at Silverstone in 79 and a few other years, watching the likes Sheene, Roberts, Spencer. Mang, Crosby, Gardner and a host of others

Rocker - come back. This thread IS entertaining.
I noticed that you've been following racing since the 50's, you must know some interesting stories then ? If you ever make one of the north west meets in Congleton, look me up for a chat, drinks on me.
Or maybe youv'e got some tales worth posting.:sing:

I can see where Rocker is coming from on this one...it would be nice to see 5 or 6 different riders (on different machines even) competing for the MotoGP win but, with a talent as prodigous as 'The Doctor's' its just such a pleasure watching him perform surgery at the front :lol:

Maybe Edwards, Barros, Kenny Jr and even Shakey can stir things up a bit !!!

The point most people have missed is that the first race was at altitude and according to Suzy at least this had an effect on power etc. Therefore the bikes should have been a bit closer together.

The Yamaha is still a slower and harder bike than the Honda. Rossi just rides past those inferiorities. The next Yamaha was 10th or something wasn't it?

Spot on Iconic - Rossi is a joy to watch, just as Micky D was before him, and it's hardly their fault the other can't keep up. It will be a sad day if Rossi goes to those big go karts.
Rocker - I guess you saw the Agostini era ? (never had the pleasure of seeing him myself) That must have become boring after a while, at least we are nowhere near that situation.:sing: