Police forces target biker deaths
 

That explains why every police officer in the South missed Sunday lunch today.

Nice to see they "do not want to stop people's enjoyment of going out on a ride"

But they had a good try though :mad:

Police hope to reduce the number of motorcyclist deaths Police officers across the South are joining forces to tackle the number of fatal motorcycle accidents.
Officers from Thames Valley, Surrey, Hampshire, Kent and the Metropolitan Police are to co-ordinate their efforts to crack down on speeding bikers.

On Sunday, officers will be out on routes known to be popular with motorcyclists to stop those riding dangerously or at high speed.

The joint project, called Operation Triumph, will run during the summer.

This is not about persecuting motorcyclists...We simply want them to arrive home safely

Sergeant Phil Haseler
It was organised by Sergeant Phil Haseler, of Thames Valley Police, which saw 37 riders killed and 300 seriously injured in its area last year.

Last month, the force launched a red and yellow card scheme to advise and warn dangerous motorcyclists.

Sgt Haseler said: "Motorcycle casualties are a problem across the region and all forces across the South East are serious about doing something about it.

"I therefore approached the other five forces and they agreed to co-ordinate their work with us.

"This is not about persecuting motorcyclists.

"We do not want to stop people's enjoyment of going out on a ride, we simply want them to arrive home safely."


:mad:

Sorry mate but, yet another one sided thread banging on about how the poor motorcyclist is being hammered.

There are so many other angles to consider not least the number of 'Poor motorcyclists' and the potential for devestation they posses.

Let me introduce here the residents of a village called Chelveston. Scenic little place, but plagued virtually every summers day with numerous Motor bikes using the B660 and B645, roads that runs past the village.
How would you feel about this irritation, constantly passing your house? And who would you complain to to do something about it?
What would you expect them to do? More to the point, how would you be if they did sod all about what you perceive to be the biggest bain of your life?

It seems to me that these Forces are merely doing something about, initially the number of deaths on the road, and secondly, the numerous requests by YOU the public, to sort it out or else...

and make a bit of dosh on the side no doubts !!:mad:

On the way back this morning from Alton I saw at least 5 plod, 2 in Volvos. 2 motorcycle cops and one in a van with a speed camera. I saw about 5 Duc's on the Alton road, I flashed you all - I think I flashed Everton and Karl - mainly to slow down, as I was in the car, you probably thought I was some dump car driver or something - then again.....

Anyway, glad you all had a great day at Physclists', shame I missed it - especially since Mrs Mutts didn't get any Bacon this weekend so I haven't had my traditional bacon sarnie.... :(

Dave yes it was me you saw on the 339, although I was already going steady due to losing sight of Everton who was a car lenghts ahead on the roundabout before the 339.
Luckily saw a R1 rider with trackday fairings going from Alton at the start of the run signaling with his hand to turn around and go back, so I knew plod was on the route but didn`t think it was going to be the whole Hampshire Constabulary!!
Did manage to spot 2 marked, 1 unmaked cars, 2 bike cops, and a camera van, ther could have been more hiding somewere. Some cars flashed me included you Dave (thanks) and a marked police car coming the other way even pointed to me when I was going at a steady 60, I can only assume it was his way of saying "we are watching you" (nice).
Anyway stopped a few miles after the van and tried to call Everton to find out where he was, only to find him coming from behind me 2 mins later, he told me he had been helping plod answer some questions on the exhausts on his 999R, and then afterwards been followed by them for a few miles on the 339.
As we got into Alton saw another police car and thought we were now done for…but as it turns out they were already stopped a BMW rider and we carried on. So do I feel like a persecuted motorcyclist.....



[Edited on 25-4-2004 by Karl]

Don't apologise, you're entitled to your opinion, the same as the rest of us.

I actually live on the A339, and dread the sound of the sirens every Sunday/Wednesday heralding yet another fallen biker. But I don't see how flooding the roads with speed traps and pulling bikers for race cans is going to reduce the deaths. As the majority of bike fatalities on this road involve no other vehicle, and almost always involve a bend!

Perhaps investment in less police overtime and more in building a positive relationship with bikers, would enable encouragement for better rider training and roadcraft skills.

As for it being a "one sided thread" surely the poster create the balance of a thread as you have done.
Think it is just called freedom of speech and having an opinion.

Good Post Triple Nine. reminds us all to be tolerant of others views, no matter how polarising or controversial the may be.

TP

Have seen these sort of accidents, but sometimes another vehicle has been the cause although no collision has taken place. More and More cars are cutting right hand bends causing oncoming traffic to take avoiding action, in a motorcyclist case this often means appexing to early and then running wide or standing the bike up on the brakes and loosing control, at which point the poorly driven 4 wheeler is long gone. There are now certain bends on my favourite bits of road that I now have to allow for this as cutting the corner is now common place, I am nearly at the point where I will turn around,catch the driver up and give him a piece of my mind. And what do I see plod doing about this sort of behaviour, Diddly Squat as thay are usually sat furher up the road with their speed gun where its a bit sraighter.

My 2 cents worth

Some interesting views as always.....

What's the answer then?

I wonder how do you put together an initiative to reduce motorcycle fatalities and casualties that will work?

It's terrible when you go to work at the weekend and you just know that as it's a nice day, you will have to deal with a serious or fatal bike accident.

If you can come up with a workable solution then please do so.

As for cars cutting corners...of course bikes never do this, do they.....

As much as it pains me to say so, out of the last eight serious bike crashes I've been to, TWO of them were down to other vehicles..the other six were down to crap / stupid / downright dangerous riding.

Can't we just be honest for once...we know it's against the rules to speed, use black visors, race cans, overtake on solid whites etc. etc. but knowing that, we then go out, do what we know is wrong and then moan if the Police do something about it or we come into conflict with other road users .

Just my thoughts.........

I agree Rushjob...we all have a choice.
I love to twist the throttle just like anyone else...I love the noise the race cans make and I would rather see my "rear end" nice and tidy with a smaller plate...But there are consequences...and I know there are.
Rather than moaning about it...stick to the limits...return to your standard cans and get the legal sized number plate back on...
Cant do it, can you???
I rest my case!:P

A lot of my local country roads that I have been riding on for over 27 years have in the last 12 months had there speed limits reduced for no apparent reason, the hazards are still the same as they were 20 years or more ago except for the traffic density which in itself is increased by the speed limit reduction. The worst case of this that I have seen is the A329 running from Thame (Oxon) to the M40, which was once a 60mph limit with a couple of technical tight bends that had signs recommending a lower cornering speed one of which was 40mph. Now for several miles it is 30mph, nothing along the route has changed the entrance to the Oxfordshire golf course and a farm on one side are the only places of note along this road as they have been for years now.
60mph down to 30mph for miles, WHY, can't see it my self, soon it will be 30mph all the way from Lands End to John O' Groats.
I understand that there is a time and Place for everything and No I don't cut blind corners, thats laziness and on a bike it will get you killed or seriously injured. Percieved danger not just to myself but to others dictates a lot of how I ride. Thats why I do 30mph in built up areas and even slower past places where I expect children will be, like playing fields and schools.
I'll be glad to get over to the IOM in June where the speed limit over the mountain really is unrestricted. Yes I ride fast on country roads but keep it with in my abilities, I know you can't allow for every thing from dear to horse muck, but even at the speed limit people can crash into you. My worse accident was 100 yards from my home as it was then, on a housing estate with my parents following me in their car at about 20mph when a parked car I was passing decided to pull off the pathway and push me into a on coming car, leaving me laying in the road with my thigh snapped and sticking through the skin, giving my parent one hell of a scare.

How long before they ban bikes in the name of safety in our Nanny state.

Kev (having a RANT)

Many thanks to paul and alison for their hospitality and to everyone else who turned up, the look on the faces of some of pauls neighbours was priceless:lol:lets hope that we can see paul out and about enjoying the sunshine. having seen some of the photo's i must start that diet:lol::lol::lol:. regards Dave s.

Good post Rushjob, and one that I hope will get a positive response.

How about every time a biker is stopped for "breaking the law" they have to have compulsory advanced training, intead of a fine and points?

How about the covert camera systems put on unmarked police cars and bikes, are used to identify training needs of bikers caught on cameras, rather than evidence for convictions?

If we really want to reduce these fatalities then someone has got to try something different, as the current attempts just aint working:(

i guess the use of the word "target" is the wrong one. When you hear the statistics you do realise that something should be done to help keep bikers alive.

I think the motorbiking world is changing, - part of descision to move to the Multistrada was based on the "risk" of loosing license and therfore job with a race replica. I also think that the traditional fast A roads are just too much of a risk. Yesterday i rode up to Boxhill mid morning, busy time- I took little back road B roads nearly all the way, - had myself a good time. The 916 wold have been too fast for the road surface, bumping and banging around, - MS perfect. Trackdays are becoming the only way of letting race reps have their way.

Rushjob...............

Your points are well put, as always. Basically what is the alternative????

I, for one, cannot imagine how heartbreaking it must be to have to break terrible news to someone's loved one and family. It must make you focussed. I was going to day angry but I guess that's not the right term...............focussed on getting your point across is the right term. Its no wonder to me that many policemen can get very frustrated when they haul up a 200mph lunatic missile probably not an hour after breaking the bad news to Mrs Whyus and her family.

Personally I believe that the process for targetting motorcyclists and the points system just doesn't work. What ever happened to education and prevention. Its true that too many peeps just take the **** and everyone has a mad moment so an education process surely has to be the way.

Especially if compulsory attendance was the only way of keeping your licence.

A pilot has to be assessed for competancy every year and in many cases they are only putting themselves at risk. But the rules are basically the same whether you are a commercial or private pilot. You are put in control of a potentially dangerous machine and therefore your ability to control that machine has to be continually assessed.

Education (compulsory education) is the way...........every year for all drivers.

Its about time we got away from this comfort zone and realised that every time you get on the bike, or behind the wheel you are at the controls of a potentially dangerous machine.

Oh..............and if you don't reach the standard at the annual assessment..........then you have to re-apply for your licence and it affects your insurance.

If you do reach the required standard then you get to keep your licence and your insurance is substantially reduced.

But it'll never happen.....................it will be an infringement of our civil liberties :). I wonder how many people feel their liberties have been infringed when their husband has been killed because of an incompetent driver or, worse still, somebody allowed an early twenty something or a born again fourty something to get on a powerful bike without adequate training or preparation just to have their, and their close families, lives cut tragically short. :(:(

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by everton]

Bikers are not the only
 

group of road users that consider themselves "targeted" The max power brigade can enjoy similar attention and are they so different from bikers?

Far too many bikers are getting killed on the roads, you can do what you like with the statistics to show that accidents per mile travelled are reducing, car drivers are responsible for X percent of accidents etc etc. But the fact remains that a disproportniate number of bikers get killed.
One aspect of this does puzzle me a bit. It is now far easier to get hold of a seriously powerful car, usually a Jap Turbo but the roads don't seemed to be littered with wrecks?

IMHO there is a element of lack of respect for the lives of others and even a lack of respect for ones own life that causes people to behave like they do on the roads.
The police should be pulling up everyone who uses the roads in a manner that shows a lack of respect for others or themselves, cars, bikers, vans, trucks you name it, Not relying on Cameras that catch only one sort of offence at a specific location.

The decline in driving standards in the UK has got that bad that personally I feel safer in Italy!!

North Yorkshire had a very bad year last year for bike deaths but thankfully they appear to have resisted the temptation to go for fixed cameras. Instead they are trying the education route through bikesafe and seeking riders views on what could and should be done.

Enough philosophy for Monday Morning

Ray

Can't agree more about compulsory retests for every road user, no matter who they are.

Every year is a bit harsh, I think every 5 years would be better. Maybe another test 2 years after you initially passed?

Think of all the extra jobs this would create at the DVLA, all the extra offices that would be needed for training centres, all the extra driving examiners that would be needed, all the extra jobs created by training companies wanting more instructors, all the revenue it would generate for the government for the (fairly small) charge for the retest.

Seems stupid that this hasn't been done already.

We're seeing a trend at the moment of more and more uninsured and unlicensed drivers on the road (according to what we're led to believe in the press) and this obviously isn't go to solve that particular problem, but it should help maintain standards on our roads - both motorcyclist and car drivers alike!

Slightly OT but....for "retest" read "Biometric ID Cards" At the predicted £35 a shot then there's definitely a rise in the offing at Whitehall.

Back On Topic:
I happen to live in one of those small-ish cheshire villages. One road in one road out, one pub, one post office, etcetera.
The roads a 30mph with a soon to be 20 mph next to primary school.
And I've got to say, about 75% of the vehicles (bikes included) take no heed of the speed limit. The dual speed humps offer only an obstacle course for the merchant bankers.
Try getting a copper to monitor our roads and your a better man than me Gungha Din.
I agree with the majority of the posters here that it does outwardly appear that bikers are the persecuted ones, but for good reason in a lot of the cases.
Your bikes not legal - you could get pulled and charged
Your bikes legal - you could get pulled and not charged.
Tough, that's the law of the land. If you don't like it, either move abroad or run for council and change it yourself.
rant rant rant!

And another thing......
The bike I run is road legal.
Road legal plates, road legal cans, road legal tyres.
So it can be done after all.
IMHO, you made your bed, now lie in it.

everyone needs to ride/drive within there own abilities.

And with consideration for the possible lack of abilities of other road users!