Diablo Rosso's
 

The new H rated rosso's avaliable yet?

Not going to get them this year according to Holbeach.

We are a Pirelli dealer, I will phone em tomorow and find out what the scoop is for you, We were told late march the first batch but things change.
Will see what I can find out

£25 cash back on them at the moment too

They don't make "H" rated as yet & my information from Holbeach our official supplier's is not this year! 01406426489 ring them your self & check.

Please give out the correct information & avoid confusion.


There is £25 of Rossos but not the ones we use in DD.

RC can you get this clarified ASAP please?

We have been already talking to Pirelli this week re availability and should have the matter clarified in the next few days.

Gordon

Just to follow that one on Gordon. I have just spoken to Pirelli Whilst ordering some other tyres. They currently have no date however they catagoricly state that they will be with us this year.
On the plus side as they couldnt help with the Rosso's they did me a cracking deal on a pair of Diablo's.
Not all bad ;)

Could someone PM me the details of the Holbeach DD deal?

'this year' could mean december though?

Yea :)

My tyre man had some of the Z rated ones in, had a look at them and they feel softer and are slick on the edges compared to the current DD tyre, people will go quicker on these, a definate advantage so get them as soon as you can. Maybe keep a set of normal diablo's for the wet tho with more tread ;)

I'm looking for a good deal on diablos.

any pointers on where to get a pair ? :)

Holbeach were cheaper than I could get them a couple of years ago and that wa fitted at the circuit.
Dunno what they are retailing at at the mo tho

It's not just the price of the tyres it's the package.

You get at the track, fit tyres, swap tyres, balance ect ect.

Just spoke to Holbeach Tyres, and just in case anyone is waiting for the Rosso tyre to be available in an H rated 120 and 160.....DONT, cos they arent going to be available at all......so we wont be using Rossos in DD it would seem. Std, H rated Diablos MUST be pre ordered and will be £160 a pair fitted, or £150 supply only...plus postage of course if they are sent......

I think that it should be pointed out that the Club is talking to Pirelli direct, not a dealer and to surmise the situation based not necessarily on all of the facts could lead to mis-understandings.

As Gordon has already posted we expect an official communication shortly and once we have that to hand all riders will be briefed in the normal manner via e-mail.

Perhaps it is time to remind people again that we need a letter from the manufacturer confirming that their product is safe for the use to which the riders will be putting their product, without that they cannot be sanctioned for such use. Pirelli have steadfastly stood behind the Diablo's and I dont think anyone would say that they weren't up to the job. If we are to move on to a replacement we need to be assured that we are in at least as good a position if not better.

Well, we HAVE to buy them from a dealer, not from Pirelli direct, and I understand that Holbeach are the official tyre supplier at the DD rounds, so they arent exactly any old dealer......

Getting a bit late for major desisions!

I've also posted this on "the other channel"....

IMHO it is now time to kick Diablo's into touch.

I know Nog's tested Maxxis tyres at Mallory recently, but I don't know what the verdict was on different tyres used.

With the first meeting only a couple of weeks away it really isn't acceptable that most of the registered riders don't seem to have tyres yet, Diablo's or Rosso's.

And Holbeach seem to be changing their story almost daily

I'm all for using the new Rosso asap but I'm not sure there are many complaints about the Diablos. Anyway, everyone's on the same tyres anyway.

pirreli all day long
 

no complaints from me since using them racing for the last four years the confidence ive got in them is awsome exspecialy in the wet thats why i run all my road bikes on them wouldent use anything else and that seams to be
the overal coment from all the riders ive spoken to

I haven't used Diablo's YET and I certainly wasn't complaining about them. By all accounts they are good and very good in the wet.

What is wrong, in my opinion, is that two weeks before the first meeting of the season nothing has been finalised.

Diablo's Rosso's, Rosso' Diablo's, when, if, when....

Not a very satisfactory way to start the season. So if Pirelli can't produce the tyres they have promised....

Move on, there are options....but maybe not this season now.

Avon ( from what I'm told very very good, wet and dry) Maxxis, Continental, Metzeler (I know it's Pirelli spelt differently)

nothing wrong with your opiion , i was just giving mine and i totaly agree with you we need to know either way ive got a bike sat in the garage with the wheels outwaiting to have tyres but WICH ones

Everybody can use H rated Diablos which have worked well for DD over the previous 4 seasons. If it hadn't been for Holbeach having problems sourcing Diablos towards the end of last season and it being implied that was due to them being replaced by Rossos in the not to distant future.
It then required both types to be written into the 2009 rules and the original news on Rossos was they would be available later in the season probably around late May, so it was always envisaged that the first couple of rounds would be raced on the standard H rated Diablos.

It now looks as though Pirelli have had a change of mind with regards H rated Rossos and are just doing the ZR rated ones which were not even listed in the 160/60 size on the Pirelli UK websit last July.
As I see it there are two options with regard to Pirelli, they either keep producing the standard Diablo that we have used so far or they sanction the use of the ZR rated Rosso. As this is a liability issue the decision on this probably has to go to someone near the top in the main company.

In 2005 the original rules only specified Diablos and not the rateing so back then we did use ZR rated tyres when the official support for the series was A&R racing, it wasn't until a DD update note in March 2007 that H rated tyres were really mentioned and that was only when the prices were quoted for them when supplied by Holbeach, it wasn't until last year that the rating appeared in the rule book stating H rated tyres were to be used.

Now I don't know how much information Gordon has with regard to our use of Pirelli Diablo tyres over the years as he has only been involved with DD since early last year so may not have realised that they initially sanctioned ZR rated Diablos


One solution would be to say No other tyre than the standard Diablo to be used before the Snetterton meeting which would mean an investment in a set of H rated Diablos now should serve as race tyres for the first two rounds and buy a bit of time for negotiations over the use of ZR rated Rossos or a supply of H rated Diablos to be secured by Pirelli UK

Update ;
make that more than a few days, very optamistic of me, but it is in hand and will resolved ASAP and an update issued.

Gordon

Well we dont have long before the first round Gordon...thats what tends to get to us all.....the fact that this is all so late in the day...again.

If Holbeach can supply H rated Diablo Rossos I can't see as there is a problem,

failing that FWR have rears advetised
http://www.fwr.co.uk

and fronts and rears are here
http://www.tyresite.com/product.asp?P_ID=755

The current rules are in place and cover the situation at the moment , any amendment will be for the future, as with many things in life we can only go with information recived at the time.

Gordon

Doesn't this whole debate highlight the futility of this season's two tyre rule anyway.

Until now Diablo's have been used successfully as a single (control) tyre to keep costs down....then this season Rosso's allowed as well (if they ever make any :rolleyes:).

I presume that many riders have now got spare wheels so they have the option of wet (Diablo) or dry (Rosso) choices, so how does this keep costs down when compared to the more logical, "allowed to use wets"



Senna'....I wasn't having a dig at you mate....just explaining my position as a "newbie" to 'DD'. I have raced before on treaded rubber, Avon's AM23/24 and they were pretty good 'of their time'.

no afence taken mate looking foward to meeting you and the rest of the newbies good to see fresh blood in the series

Why would a standard Diablo be classed as a wet tyre & a rosso as a Dry tyre???:confused:

Yes, the Rosso has a small amount of untreaded edge to the rear tyre, but you must be a riding god if you think you will be able to lean the bike that far over in the wet on a standard diablo.

Wet behavior: find always your emotion
In the development of Diablo Rosso strong attention has been payed to the behaviour on wet road surface, always more important because of the increased performance of latest generation of machinery and of the growing performance of riders. The Front tread is designed to open the water layer; the calibrated grooves between rear crown and the edges disperse effectively the residual water, while the structure (based on Pirelli patented zero degree steel belt both on front and rear) maintains open the grooves even in extreme conditions.
With the support of the innovative compounds with balanced silica content, Diablo Rosso assures performance that satisfy the expectation of the most demanding riders.



Guess that say's it all really.


Chris:burn:

Except the last line Chris.....'Oh yes, and you cant use them on a 600 cos we wont be making them in the correct size'........Lol....

Maybe I over simplified it a bit Chris' and you were reading some thing that wasn't actually there....

Because Diablo's are "very good in the wet" and Rosso's, though far stickier than Diablo's for dry racing, are not reputed to be as good as Diablo's in the wet, my wet/dry senario would seem to be logical.

But there again a meaningless quote from an advertising 'blurb' is always better than answering the question posed.

Can we go race yet!

As far as I see it, the Diablo Rosso is the new Diablo, ie it's replacement.
The standard Diablo was and still is a good tyre,( I use it on the road) the Rosso as it's replacement is more technoloicaly adavanced, offering better grip at higher lean angles in the dry, better wet weather capabilities in removing water from between the road and the surface of the tyre, better silica content etc(this is the one that makes it grip better in the wet)

How do you substantiate that the Rosso is not good in the wet???

" a meaningless quote from an advertising 'blurb "

If as you say the advertising was meaningless, then surley you should complain to the advertising standards agency, as all advertisers have to meet a strict code regarding what they say there product can and can not do, litigation is the modern way of sorting things out.


Before you can quantify that the standard Diablo is better than the Rosso, you need to have ridden/raced them first.


Chris:burn:

Just A Thought
 

Dosent the gruves on the tyre ie tread just move the water about it dont actully do the griping bit its the heat in the tyre that duz that and if its wet you dont lean the bike over as much so sureley then there is no difference in the two tyres in wet conditions but better grip in the dry not that ive any problems either way JUST A THOUGHT DONT SHOOT ME LOL:lol:

I have never ridden on wets..........
I noticed in the paddock the amount of grooves/tread pattern on them
i guess the blocks/tread move around more and generate heat and remove standing water ?
I followed a race bike in the wet at a TD and it looked like he was leaving
a dry line :o


Just to add to this tyre thread
I'm hoping to buy a set of NEW tyres for this year..lol
I used Lily and Freaks part worns in 08 :)

I still need convincing that allowing wets is a more logical solution to a budget series? The single tyre rule, no wets, is one of the major factors in keeping the costs down in DD.

I'll put money on any rider in a 'blind' test being able to tell the difference and put in different times on either a Diablo or Rosso tyre, in either wet or dry.

Bike, fuel, tyres = race.

Pirelli do a whole range of tyres that offer higher grip levels than standard Diablo, the Diablo is their main stream road tyre that motorcycle manufacturers would look to fitting as standard.
In such a competitive market Pirelli need to keep pace with the developments not only of the motorcycle makers but also their tyre competitors and the Diablo is now becoming a dated tyre with little or no input into its design from there research on the race tracks at WSB, WSS and BSB levels.
The first time I recall seeing a Diablo was at the 2003 TT on the Proddy class bikes, we just didn't know what they were called then, we just clocked the new tread pattern and it was only the top guys that had them (ie their developemnet riders), they weren't available to us dispite us getting our tyres from the offiical Pirelli dealer in the paddock. we had to make do with Super Corsas and for the Junior TT we had these cut to the edge.

Pirelli have no doubt planned to phase the Diablo out and replace it with the Diablo Rosso which will be better in many if not all areas and certainly will not offer anything less in any one area as this is the tyre targeted at the masses, the everyday road rider that encounters all different types of conditions all over the world, from rain soaked man-hole covers to sun scorched tarmac.

As the availability of Diablos dropped off last season (Holbeach could not supply me with a front 120/70/17 at Donington) it looked as though the change over would be happening sometime this year and as such the rules had to try and allow for this.

It now seems Pirelli have changed their plans about producing the Rossos in a H rating but there is little the DSC can do about that, The most that can be done is to either secure the supply of standard DD legal Diablos or get them to sanction the use of the ZR rated Rossos.

in my experience Pirelli/Metzeler have done more for club racers in the last 12 years than any other tyre brand, with support at the Manx GP and the TT, the Pirelli riders club, their on going suport fo NGRRCs Streetstocks and their support of the DD series. this support may not be as strong as it initially was but who could blame them with the remarks sometimes aimed at them on this and other websites, so gone have the free tyres to be given away as prizes but the tyres are still below rrp.
One of our local tyre suppliers who was out with us on Sunday on his 916-SPS looked into the standard prices and came back with £154 + VAT for a pair, so its not as though we are getting ripped off.