Calling 1198s Riders
 

The first 30 miles on the 1198s were nearly the last. If one thing really gets my goat it's a misfire. Imagine the scene: 17C blue sky and bone dry, smooth dual carriageway, 65mph, constant throttle. The darned thing was misfiring worse than a badly serviced 851 in an Algerian traffic jam. Then, just as my blood was coming to a boil, I noticed the briefest flash of the 1st LED on the DASH top: the DTC activation.

Never under any circumstance could anything have been "spinning-up". A quick stop in the next layby, changed DTC from Level 8 to 6. Hey Presto. Later, I turned it off completely and the engine was even smoother.

I would really like to understand what other 1198s riders are experiencing (the 1098R system is not the same). It is so intrusive on your bike or do I have a fault?

If you are thinking of moving from a 1098 to a 1198 believing the change is just 100cc, thing again. Lots of very small things add up to a hugely different feel (to me). Some better, some worse. The throttle response seems faster and torque seem immensely increased even at running-in speeds. Poised as you would be to wind on a breath of gas on corner entry, hit a bump on our 3rd world roads, and you'll be rewarded by a snarl of power pushing you towards doom. Of course I will get used to it, but first impressions (after a 1098s remember) is that it's an animal. Respect is due to those who can ride the R !

Why would you have the traction control on at all, let alone level 8 which is very intrusive on a dry sunny warm day?

I didn't expect it to be that intrusive. Are you saying your1198s is as intrusive as that? I am trying to determine whether mine has a fault or not. Wouldn't you?

2 moans for me are 1. my 996 can out handle it through the twisties with far less physical effort, but i am going to sort the suspension next weekend. 2. fueling issue at 3500 to 4200 rpm i guess because of EU emissions? Ill bugger about with the DTC today and feed back if it made a difference but doubt.
Sorry

Hmmm...just read the TWO test and they say that the DTC is a wonderful thing. One of the testers reckons that the 1198S is the best sportsbike they've ever ridden, so it may be that yours has some kind of fault (although it would be best to try it on the least intrusive settings I reckon).

Never had a screaming urge to get one of the 1098/1198's but I must admit that TWO test had me drooling

I've got a 1098R, if it helps here is what I have found with DTC.

Levels 7 & 8 are pointless, 6 might have some value in monsoon/icy conditions.
I was out in January with the air temp showing 1 degree celcius, I still found level 5 too intrusive.

Finally even on level 5, if you drive (hard) out of a corner or away from a set of lights that has ripples in the surface of the tarmac then the DTC chimes in like a plug cap fell off !

For 99% of my road riding, level 2 is perfect. Yesterday I was out for a good blast and found level 2 only very occasionally chiming in (big lean angles, and big drive).

On the 1098R the DTC first starts to retard the ignition before it cuts the spark, so the power softens first then it chops a cylinder. This is different to the 1198S.

DTC was and still is a true revelation (ignoring the nanny settings), I do believe every sportsbike should have something similar fitted.

Foxy

Level 4 is a "suggested" one for every day riding. the levels above that are really down to style and progress being made.
It was made quite clear that different riding styles benefit different levels when we were given the low down at the factory. trial and error to find your best selection is the suggestion.
I think at level 8, the DTC is almost pre-empting wheel slip and acts accordingly......

Thanks Jools and Foxy. I am generally very happy with it. I'm off up Shap now intending to switch in level 5 as recommended. DTC off is OK but the throttle response is very sharp it might save my bacon on diesel etc. By coincidence, the dealer phoned a few moments ago and confirmed that they found it too intrusive.
Sincere thanks again chaps. Much appreciated.

I've now got 1100 miles on my 1198S,first service done and opened it up for the first time (above 7000rpm) yesterday.

Animal is a good description (I owned an 04 ZX10 for 3 years and an 08 ZX10 for a year and I don't think even these bikes compare !).

I had 'issues' with DTC up until the first service - as already said,anything above setting 4 is pointless on a dry road.

I'm not a wheely freak but a bike with this much poke and so little weight (even at running in revs) does lift the front under brisk acceleration - even with DTC on level 3 it was cutting the motor and slamming the front down with little in the way of height with the front wheel - had a few nasty bollox/tank interfaces - almost snapping my wrists was when I decided something needed doing.

At the first service the mechanic checked for fault codes (both on the main ECU and the DTC ecu) but no faults appeared - a quick call to Ducati UK revealed nothing so I was advised to try the bike with DTC off - if the fault re-appeared then that ruled out DTC.

But,after the service the fault disappeared - no problems with level 3 (unless the road conditions were a little ****).

I've also got that annoying fueling problem around 3500 rpm - easily sorthed by running at 4000 rpm but that's not really the point.

When funds recover a PC V and a dyno run should sort it out.


The comments about the handling not being as good as a 996 are a little puzzling - I owned a 996S a while back and just couldn't get on with the heavy steering - on track it was very hard work - mucking about with ride height did little to help - the 1198 feels far better,quicker to turn in whilst still holding a fairly tight line .

I read the TWO article 1198S -v- 09 R1 - Rob Hoyles was the rider (no slouch !) - the R1 was damned with feint praise whilst the Duc won the plaudits - just one mans opinion but the 1198S IS the best bike i've ever ridden/owned and i've been through a few.

Roll on the first trackday in May...

I haven't fiddled with suspension adjustment yet - thinking about getting Colin from 100% Suspension to sort it out (he did my ZX10 and transformed it) - the rear feels fine with my (ample) weight aboard but the front does have a small amount of understeer.


Oh aye,first time i've used these new Pirelli SP's - they feel great and warm up far quicker than the SC pro's i'm used to - grip doesn't seem an issue.

yep.. I tried it as i mentioned earlier and ill be buggered!!. What i thought was a fueling issue almost disappeared both straight line and slow mini roundabout cornering letting it linger at 3000 rpm to 4200rpm. I dropped it down from 8 to 6 now going to 4 tomorrow to test it further. Nice quick fix, the membership to Ducati Sporting Club and everyones help over the years has saved me once again. bloody fantastic . thanks to everyone!!!!!

Wheelie issues i havent had with the DTC on 8 and i was UFO spotting for a short while from the lights. weird ill try on tomorrows run ..thanks again

Level 4 would be appropriate if they made a yellow 1198, but for quicker bikes 2/3 is perfect :lol:

Did another 130 miles last night on DTC L4 and all is well. I'm kind of glad Newbie says it's a bit of an animal cos, er, it is. It doesn't intimidate me but it does show up my riding. Gonna have to sharpen up this year or I'll be back to novice group.

I know it's a cliche but the way these things build speed is really deceiving.

There's no screaming motor to remind you of your speed and things in the distance seem to rush up at you.

Gonna take some getting used to.

Glad your isues are sorted though.

All this talk about 1198 being a better bike than the 1098-R1-Zx10-fire blade etc is rubbish in my eyes unless your a British super bike rider then you would notice..OK there are subtle differences but they are not miles apart from each other..every rider has different expectations .so no two riders are the same,And to compare bikes on our British roads is near impossible.....

Well,taking your argument to it's logical conclusion we should all be riding 50cc scooters as we can't match 125 laptimes at Mallory...

newbie..I don't think youve grasped what im trying to say..

Of course we'll never reach the limits of these bikes but that doesn't mean that we're not going to notice characteristics of a bike that we like or dislike. Meaning that someones riding style might suit a particular bike more than another and therefore they will say it's better etc.

I disagree that comparing bikes on British roads is impossible. I've effectively used that exact technique for comparing bikes.

I would add that if you can't tell or appreciate the difference, then "you" just can't tell.

Other riders can appreciate even small difference.

I am fortunate enough to get to ride all the bikes that are out there, the 1198 is massively different to the Fireblade, is it better ? That depends who is riding it and how you quantify it.

Foxy

Oh,I grasped what you are trying to say ;)



Foxy and TP make good points.

'Better' probably isn't the best word to use but into,through and out of corners give me an 1198 over any Jap Superbike - that's where the fun is.

like i said we are all unique and we all have our own personal veiws..

Agreed.

But answer me this - have you ridden an 1198 and compared it to,let's say an 08 ZX10?

I have - on paper they have similar top speeds,similar acceleration and lap in similar times with the same rider,same tyres and same track.

But,guess what?

They feel totally different.

Even I can tell the difference.


Yep,we all have opinions - just voicing mine that's all :)

your opinion taken on board,,,BUT i feel my opinion stands stronger than yours foxy,s TP,s As in overall percentage of litre super-bikes,shapes ,sizes ,braking,acceleration,0 to 60 speed,top end speed,how they corner,from one year to another the change would be as i quoted subtle...If you said to me that a formula 1 car and a VW golf were different then i would agree with you ,because that's the sort of difference your trying to put across to me ....

Unsurprisingly, and I think I can safely speak for the three of us on this one, we disagree.

You keep quoting bike stats, but you don't feel stats on the road. Engines have different characteristics in how they make power, regardless of the overall number, and that IS able to be distinguished by the rider. Some engines are peaky, some have strong midrange ... they may all have the same top end number but will feel different on the road. They may mean using gears differently etc etc. On the track it may mean you use different lines to get the best out of that bike compared to another litre bike.

I coached on an R1 (and R6) for the California Superbike School over 3 years and it felt TOTALLY different to my ZX-10R.

One comment in your last post stands out to me:


I think you may have assumed something here.

In any case, I can most certainly tell the difference but I can accept that there are people out there who can't.

Good post TP.

Daz,I presume the fact you didn't answer my question means your opinion is made up from infirmation you've read and heard?

;)

here's a fact for you - 1198S -v- 09 R1.

At 8000rpm the Duc produces 34ft/lb more torque than the R1.

Now tell me that's subtle and impossible to notice.

I just love the fact that in all the comparative tests I've read, the Ducati whups the R1's ass...and by god the front end of the new R1 is feckin ugly.

I guess with the Duke costing 4K more than the R1 you'd have a right to expect it to be better, but the fact that nearly everyone thinks that it's a much better bike is good for any Ducati nutter to hear.

As to the issue about whether there is any real difference between top end superbikes on the road (or track). It was only as recently as 2001/2 that BSB and WSB bikes were making around 180 bhp, the same ballpark that these bikes are making now. It goes without saying that yer average rider won't be able to exploit any of these bikes to the full either on the road or the track (unless they have BSB level rifing skills). But, the way that each different make of bike handles and delivers the goods will still be clearly felt by even a novice rider to make their mind up on what they prefer.

For me, I've got an irrational need for an 1198S even though I know it's far more than I'd ever need, that I would only scratch the surface of what it could do and that I would be far better off with a 749 or 848

full respect for that comment mate and taken on board...

Don't you make me come up there!!! ;)

800 miles in and I'm now running with DTC off on the road as it is way too intrusive when wheelying even on the lower levels, traction is never an issue and shouldn't be on the road so no worries there,
I came ot this decision after sitting at 110ish happily balanced on one wheel in 3rd gear when the DTC cut all the power, the front came down so hard I thought the forks had snapped LOL, it interferes when pulling the front up at speed over crests even in 5th gear. I think anytime the front stops spinning the DTC throws a wobbler.

Can't wait to try it on track tho :)

Great post !

10% of me thinks DTC would be a good idea but my Tricolore is too lovely to trade in.... guess i could move all the extras across though.....:cool:

stick with the tric...you havent missed DTC yet ;)

Time for an Update then ...
 

Now with 2,500 miles on the clock and Cadwell under it's belt, what do I think of it now? In short; it's a belter! Forget DTC levels 6-8 cos it just feels stupid. The vibes at 80-90 in top are smoothing out a bit; never uncomfortable but the mirrors blur. Fuel consumption is 10 miles a tank better than 1098s. The real improvement is the stock set-up. At Cadwell there was no front end compression or slighest drama at Mansfield, just (to me) sublime manners everywhere.

Whilst running in, my best mate reversed his Land Rover Discovery over it. Just 800 miles on the clock and Kerching!! Cosmetics only but a grand nevertheless. So I didn't need to bend it at Cadwell. Going back to basics, building up steady, not frightening myself, lap times came down steadily from 2m 04s (Mon AM) to 1m 52s (Tues PM) still with no scares. For me this is stellar and all down to good standard set-up. Traction control was in level 2 and showed 15% round Chris curves to the Gooseneck - never felt any intrusion.

So I'm chuffed. Best sports bike I've owned. Like all great products, it has warts. Only Ducati is able to have flaws, in some wierd subliminal way, enhance their products.

Just turn the whole system off. Simples