Don't rock the boat babeeee!
 

Long story short.

Checked Castle Combe with regards to testing and found that they'd basically **** blocked racebikes full stop.

The day before the race meeting is for cars. Eh?

If it was for bikes,you'd need a road bike anyway. Hmmm.

Sent fairly pointed but relatively polite email to Castle Combe asking why this was the case. Ok, I mildly implied that their customer service ended at taking the clubs money but I insisted that I wasn't being sarcastic and that I genuinely wanted to know why they couldn't provide a testday prior to the meeting or at least let racebikes on the trackdays if they met the noise limits!

Got this reply (Carbon copied to New Era by the guy that sent it, which cracked me up. I'm expecting a furious Jim Parker on the phone)

Dear Tim,

Thankyou for your note but you may have preferred to have checked the facts prior to sending.

We are very aware of our customers needs but we do not have planning permission to run mid week test days for bikes. Its as simple as that and has always been the case here. The New Era club have run our bike meeting here since the 80’s and they too are aware of the situation. We would all prefer it if it was not the case as test days can be very lucrative but do ADD to the cost of competing; so, far from “taking the clubs money and that’s where customer service ends” we value our one motorcycle meeting of the year and will continue to work with the New Era club who appreciate the association and with who we enjoy a very good working relationship which we both hope will continue for many years.

We do run track days for road going bikes and full details are available on our website

I very much hope that you enjoy your visit to Castle Combe Circuit and have a successful and safe meeting but, of all the meetings we run here the bike meeting is far away the most expensive to put on but with a history of bike racing stretching back 58 years we will continue to provide the customers on both sides of the Armco with as cost effective a days sport as we can while accepting that a one day meeting may not suit them all.





Regards



Rodney



ERMMM, OK!


My reply was thus. Please, tell me if I'm being a tit!!?



Hi Rodney,

Many thanks for your speedy reply.

I do apologise if my somewhat abrupt email got your back up a bit, but I do have a habit of saying things as I see them. I can appreciate your defensive position, I'd feel exactly the same way. I'm actually a very nice bloke, and would be happy to chat on the phone to prove it! ;)

I fail to see where I've missed the facts though?... I had a good look before I sent my email, trust me!

We have a one day meeting...the only bike race meeting of the year by your own admission. There's a "track day" on the Friday beforehand, but it's for cars????. I'm guessing that the planning permission issue relates to noise regs. Fair enough, but as I stated before, if a race bike meets these limits, what's the problem? The racecars are tested at 108 db, Bikes 105 (ok, so road cars are at 100db). My racebike has to meet the same limit for all MSV track and test days (105db)...it hits 98db. It seems strange that you can arrange midweek testdays for superloud racecars, but not for racebikes?

As you said yourself, it would be very lucrative for you to provide a test day prior to the race (even letting racebikes in) and I feel this would make it seem like a fully rounded meeting, rather than just turning up and hoping for the best. I think that if you feel the day wouldn't be worthwhile financially as people are limiting what they spend these days, then you have been ill advised. Racers don't skimp when it comes to testing, especially at a circuit they haven't been to before.

Surely some leeway could be incorporated into the test day prior to the race ( the one on the Weds) to show that you are as serious about this meeting as the competitors entering it?

Once again, please accept my apolgies for any offence taken from my correspondance, but I'm fighting for a championship against someone that has been to CC several times before. This is a very frustrating position as you might appreciate and I don't want to lose it because I couldn't test at CC.

I'm guessing I'll have to find a road bike to use, but as you may also appreciate, that doesn't mean my racebike will be set up properly on race day. It's an expensive meeting to put on you say, but Ambucopters cost alot as well (as melodramatic as that may sound!).

One last point. I'm not sure what the carbon copy to New Era was meant to achieve?...do you think Jim Parker will ring me and revoke my membership for rocking the boat? That'd be more of a blow to my championship hopes than the lack of race testing. Hmmm.

For what it's worth, I'm very much looking forward to racing at Castle combe, testing or no testing. Do keep an open mind though.

All the best,

Tim Pritchard.


Personally, if I'm honest (and cynical) it seems that the car boys that rule this circuit (and will spend nearly 300 quid on a test day) are given preference. Because we are the only bike day of the year, sod it if we don't know which way the circuit goes.


Am I being unreasonable?


Oh yeah, you'll notice that he said "customers on either side of the armco"...not either side of the recticel airfencing!

Where does it say on their website that race bikes are not allowed? It does say "Bikes must be fitted with their original factory fitted silencer. We try to discourage competition machines, due to the strict sound regulations in place for the track days." I've run a DD bike there before but had to fit DB killers.

Taken from their FAQ section

"Can I bring a racing bike?
The answer is “No”, unless it is a production based class strictly within our noise regulations. The days are not intended as testing for racers, but a chance to ride your road/sports bike quickly in a safe environment."

The DD bike meets that stipulation with db killers, and like all other track days, it's not a test day. Can't see why you can't book.

Timmy, have you not done Castle Combe before?
Shep has!!!

They do allow race bikes on the wednesday trackdays, they just don't shout about it cos it's supposed to be a trackday rather than a test day... you know there's a difference!
In the Q&A's on their website it says race bikes are allowed if they're a production based class and comply with the noise regs. Plenty of us have taken DD bikes before.
The noise regs though are much tighter than ACU regs - it's 105db @ 3/4 revs, #34 gets through it at 102db.

Just book it on line (under a different name might be advisable now!). Me and some friends are going on August 5th.

Yeah, I looked at all that, but since when does a 70mm race exhaust qualify as an original factory fitted silencer?

I guess I'm 50% guilty of being a tit then! :lol:

No Nick, not been to CC before...and yes, I'm aware that Shep has!!!!

I'm gonna book it under my own name..on the phone...and ask for Rodney to speak to when I book it!

Anyone thinking that I might be in a slightly feisty mood because I'm 21 points in the hole....would be spot fackin on.

And yes, I WILL be going completely mental at Mallory Park.

If anyone wants to win those races they're gonna have to be prepared to ride VERY hard indeed. And I hate the place.

Tuppence worth: As DD can pick and chose out of New Era meetings (assumption, I know) if it's that much of a pain to get some testing at etc why don't we just drop it from the calendar. Having said that it could be a fantastic track for bike racing and a great meeting. Is it????

I've tested there on a Weds, no probs. You just need to meet their noise regs.

Go and test, great circuit and a lot of fun. Interesting on the bumps on the brakes into quarry :)

Be careful - Castle Doom^H^H Combe likes to eat collarbones... :o

and ignore the MCN circuit guides that give advise about the 2 chicanes, cos that 3rd chicane that they dont mention can be a bit of a surprise! :D

They've had those rules for yonks. Just make sure the bike's reasonably quiet and you'll be fine.

Having said that I dare say they'll now be keeping a very close eye on you!! :lol:

lets hope you havent spoiled it for the rest squeezing in on these 'track' days....

I wrote a big feature on this issue for Superbike mag a year ago and had a lengthy chat to Rodney about it, it's actually really interesting (well the topic, I'm not bigging myself up, lol!) and makes you understand that it really is out of the circuit's hands, they risk MASSIVE fines and licences taken away from them for going over noise limits, with mics connected directly to the council! (You also understand why Donington has a noisy track day on the Thursday, then a quiet one on the Friday, then race meeting at the weekend... You'd think it's ridiculous, but they're not allowed two consecutive noisy events. They are also given a number of 'noisy' days they're allowed a year etc...) They have to behave to survive, they're not being mean! Although it's frustrating when you're not aware of all the behind-the-scenes goings-on, it seems like they're taking the pee.

It's outrageous how people buy a house next door to a historic circuit that has existed for more than a hundred years (Castle Combe) and then complain about the noise - unfortunately CC is plagued by this and has risked being shut down altogether many times... Oh, and that's also why they have six groups on their track days with only about 12 bikes allowed on the circuit at the same time, that's imposed on them! And they are told how many days they are allowed to run in a year and when hence they're so restricted...

But I'll dig out the piece and scan it in sometime this weekend.

Exactamundo, if you wanno blow yer top it's the local council's, nimby's etc who are the root cause of more and more restrictions on the UK's circuits.

It's got to the point where a council will act big time on just one persons gripe.

Locally, it's happened at Croft and Elvington. Some of the locals were well hacked off at Elvington that the Nimby's won, they liked the fact F1 cars used the venue.
There are a good few other local airfield venues that were used for clubby stuff but the land owners won't allow access as they just don't want the hassle.

On the other side of the coin I wonder what would happen if some locals wrote to the council asking for more use to be made of the local circuit!!:confused:

In other countries a local circuit is often seen as something to have pride in, attracting business and visitors to the area.

Ray.

Incendiary comments follow ;-)
Interestingly when Heathrow want to build another run way they don't give a stuff about the locals both in terms of noise and emissions pollution as well as uprooting whole communities from their homes. I wonder how many of the local inhabitants to Castle Coombe user airporrts to go on holiday and drive gas guzzlers to the supermarket....I could go on :-)))) I think it's called freedom and democracy ;-)

From the CC website

The noise limit for the day is 105 db(A), which is measured at ½ metre from the exhaust outlet at ¾ maximum revs. It is the rider’s responsibility to ensure that their machine is within this limit. All machines are sound tested prior to going out on the circuit. In the event of a machine failing the sound check, then the rider will be entitled to a 75% refund. If you are unsure if your bike will get through the noise test (i.e. if it is fitted with an after market exhaust system), then you can always come over to get the bike noise tested prior to booking a place.

ACU Noise tests for our bikes are at 5500rpm so about 3/5 maximum revs for a Class A bike and this measurement is taken 0.5 meters away at a angle of 45 degrees, there is no mention of any angle on the CC website and with the higher revs used the readings will come out higher than those that were taken at Snetterton

In the past I have found most race cans need to be well baffled at Castle Combe and have needed to be since we first took CBR600s there over 10 years ago. In the past we have never had a problem getting a quiet race bike out on a Castle Combe trackday.

on a lighter note, I once had a pillion ride at castle combe, with John Reynolds, on a GSXR1000, great experiance, but at the same time Shakey was in a lambo and Steve Plater was in a brand new ferrari which was road legal strait out of the show room, and they both got black flagged for being too noisey and not aloud back on track all day! I also had a passenger ride in an audi RS somin' or other which was great and a mitubishi evo which was horrible. all noisy, rattley and bumpy and after the gsxr none of them seemed very fast.

Matt 72

p.s. I was late arriving after getting lost on the A272 and didn't get to ride round myself, a great shame. but I'll get over it.

just checked the CC website, seems every other weds is a bike td...think I may have to do one of those! havent done CC before and its a close as any track to me

Then they form a commitee, Get voted on the parish council and then onto the district council :mad: Also helps to join the masons..................

Sad barstewards the lot of them :mad:

I always suspected that Steve Mason #41............but thought he was just a small, harmless, Scottish, ginger person.............didn't realise he held such sway at Castle Combe..............:roll: We can nobble him at Mallory....:devil:

:lol: Free the masons :lol: :lol:

May do the same sometime, last time I popped down I knew 3 of the instructours having raced against them with North Glos and all 3 have raced Ducatis in recent years,

So if you go look out for Simon Knowlson, Brian Jaques and Rob Jones, Simon's the very very quick one although the others aren't exactly slow, anybody remeber the old guy on the 996 in SoT at Pembrey last year, that was Brian and Rob was the one I was helping at the Superbike Grand National there a few years back

Noise limits Bedford Autodrome
 

It's the same at the above, monitors are on the trackside linked directly to the local council offices, when it goes over 3 times in a session they have to pull the session/ black flag the offender in order to keep the permissions.

Hmmm...not to mention the Assen trackday last year!!!! The DD'ers must have been a site to see for the Dutch officials etc, with their fizzy drink cans fastened to the ends of their exhaust pipes...lol Coming out of the dead slow corner up the back straight I found myself having to avoid the bits of tin that had been blown clean off the end of a pipe...
Anyway to explain, the noise limit that day was 88db, if i remember rightly, with an alarm straight to the council....

Yep the paperwork says 88dBA at the Veenslang

It wasn't only coke cans that needed to be dodged but also a few wayward dB killers

it was 98 static tho, 88 drive by wasnt it? ironically, mine would have passed the test anyway!!

Well,

At least it's given everyone something to talk about, been a bit quiet on here recently! ;)

I'm not a troublemaker...honest guv!

It would appear that the circuit is under severe NIMBY rule..poor beggars.

I still think that he could have just sent an email explaining that I could go on as long as my bike passed noise regs.

Guess that's what I get for being a bit up myself when I wrote the email.

Aaaahhhh, life eh.