Anyone ever owned a Porsche
 

As my kids are getting older and it's mainly only the wife and I, I was thinking about getting a sports car :). Now the budget is not huge and I've always wanted a Porsche. With a budget of about £15K this seems to get a good model Porsche Boxster.

Question is, what are they like to live with. Will still be using it as a day to day car going too and from work (about 90 mile round trip).

As a soft top, what are they like for keeping wind/water out?
What is fuel economy?


Any advice welcome

Weejohnyboy, Nev 748 and Whele could be along any time soon

Get one, but IMHO not a boxster. May I suggest one of the last air cooled 911's (3.6 flat six, 280bhp) around M reg, for your budget you may stretch to get a really good model, but you won't be disappointed.

If you pick the right model, a Porsche will provide as reliable a super car as one good wish for.

Soft tops are all typically well engineered, and fuel a econmey not bad at all, say 20-26mpg ish.

I am sure other peeps will be along soon.

Had a '91 911 for a couple of years (99/00). I put petrol in it and serviced it once (£350) and sold it for pretty much what I paid for it. I loved it and, as much as I still get tempted to buy a Boxster S, I think it was the best allround car I've ever owned. The combination of practicality, usable speed, old-school interior, grunt and general gorgeousness was just spot-on. Fuel consumption was a bit lumpy but then so was the engine. :)

I have owned a Porsche for the last 9 years.
Its a 1994 993 C2 (which is a 3.6L 280bhp, not 3.2L), which for those not in the know, is the last of the air/oil cooled 911s.

15k wil possibly get you one of these, but more likely to get a 964 (88 to 94), which has a 3.2L, and about 265bhp. The 964 is much more tail happy, and feel somewhat older to drive than the 993 (imo), as they have an older style of suspension and gearbox. Thats not to say they feel bad to drive, its just a personal feeling having driven a number of them over the years. The interior in a 993 is almost identical to the 964 though, which as Ali says is definitely old school.
The 993 is the one most of the collectors go for so they tend to hold their money quite well. Mine returns 24mpg for spirited driving, and gets down below 12 if continually driven hard on a track day :)
Servicing wise they are cheaper than the newer water cooled 996s for the annual service. There are many independants about too, so no need to go to a main dealer unless you really feel the need.

If your going to get a boxster, make sure you buy an S. The non S is a great car, but everyone I've known who has had one soon gets fed up with it as it seems under powered.
The Boxster S is a great track day car as it is very well balanced. It makes a great everyday car too. Steer clear of one with ceramic brakes as they are blindingly expensive to replace. For everyday driving a Boxster S is just as quick as a 993.
I've thought about going for a newer one, and the S is definitely one I consider as a good replacement for the 993.

If your less sold on the idea of a Porsche and can live with a little less creature comforts, I'd suggest having a drive in a lotus elise or exige. Totally different kettle of fish - very light and very agile, but just as quick point to point. Possibly need a little more attention though (can't say for sure as I've not owned one, its just a feeling based on comments from mates that have them).

If you need any more info just ask away. I've been a member of a couple of porsche clubs and forums for a number of years, so can point you at a couple if you want to do a bit more research.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
John. (too many toys, not enough time).

Good sense already spoken.

I've had 5 porsches over the years.

924 Turbo, !!! scary fun
911 SC 3.0 great classic 911
993, last of the aircooled cars and a classic
996, first of the watercooled cars bit of a letdown
997.2 the latest PDK gearbox version, awesome vehicle

For the 15K ish budget i think youhave two options.
993 if you want something that is more than just a car, will be expensive to service but its a classic
Boxster S, great all round fun car and quite modern too.

Good luck !

STeve

I would avoid the Boxster as well. You would no doubt feel at some point that you should have gone the whole hog and got a 911!
I would doubt you could get a 993 for that budget unless it had very high miles. Most are auto as well which for me takes away the whole driving experiance.
A 964 with low miles would be good for the miles you need to do but my old Impreza turbo was a quicker car. Best go for a 996 which if it has reasonable miles on should be a very good car. The 3.4 engines had problems if low milage so I went for a 996 C2 manual 3.6 which in my view is a great car. I use it everyday and take the children to school as there is room in the back for booster seats ( not much room in the 964/993)
Have a word with Ray at Northway Porsche 0118 9714333 for an honest opinion and will tell you servicing costs etc which don't seem too bad
Happy hunting,
Nev

Thanks for all the replies.

I love the look of the 911 but for the ones I like the look off are outside my price range :(

Will try a couple of dealers and see what's about. Might be worth driving one before I buy :o

Will keep you posted

911virgins.co.uk or similar is a good read...IIRC

hmmmmmmm
 

had a 996 for 8 months - did 22,000 miles - hated it - VERY fragile - infact the day AFTER we sold it - the bloody thing decided to blew its own engine up!

Boxter is a great car for everyday use - fun, reasonably fast - "Tiff" rates them highly and he actually knows a thing or two about cars - apparantly!

Simple advice - for your budget - steer clear of ANY 996 - try and get yourself into 993 if you can - join the POCGB for help/tips/advice (or even the actual purchase) make sure its got FULL history yada yada yada and you should be fine!

993 = a DIY mechanics wet dream and the very BEST car Porsche have ever made IMHO!

Enjoy!

khushy

Just a little more info :

The 993 was the last of the 'hand made' cars, and as such is quite a bit more old fashioned than the 996/7 cars, where a lot of automation was deployed to cut manufacturing costs.

This is no bad thing as it means there is more scope for diy.

The 993 engines came in 2 generations 271 and 285 bhp, with the later having variocam timing. They are all prone to valve timing gear slippage which basically just saps performance, but is quite expensive to correct.

Servicing costs for the 993 were significantly higher than for the 996 cars, my average service for the 993 was in the region of £1k, with the 996 nearer £400.

The 993 is fully depreciated and a classic, gets my recommendation.

Oh, one last thing, dont buy tiptronic ! as it saps loads of performance and its basically an automatic, the New PDK gearbox is awesome but youll need 60K + for one of those !

Try www.pistonheads.com for some window shopping :D

They divvy up the 911 range quite nicely.

993, 996, 997, with a few sub groups as well.

Ray.

Erm, not quite sure the 'variocam' thing is right.

the later engines have 'varioram' induction to alter inlet tract length, and so boost bottom end torque. Your right, it does take power up to 285bhp though.

they use hydraulic tappets, and its common on leggy engines for some of these to lose pressure overnight, meaning a slight tapping at initial startup. Its not too costly to get fixed if you go to a decent non franchised dealer.

My 993 costs have never exceeded 400 quid, but agree if you have a major service done which is all of the plugs (12 of them !) that takes a serious amount of labour. I chose to do them myself, it only takes an afternoon.
Asside from that the most expensive part of the service is the oil.
You can buy all the parts to do a diy service for under 100 quid (pollen filters, air filter, oil filters (yes there are two), and some other stuff I've forgotten).

Every time I drive the 993 it puts a smile on my face. I jjust don't get the same experience from driving the newer ones.

Another vote here for 911virgin.com too.

Its definitely VarioCam !

http://www.qv500.com/porsche993p2.php

Sorry, but there are a number of errors on that web site, or rather, things I do not believe to be true.

for a start, the engine did not up its capacity to 3.8L when going to 285bhp. the only 3.8s (as standard anyway) were the RSs, although the larger barrels can be brought as performance parts upgrades.

the information here: http://www.idee.demon.nl/
is taken directly from the sales literature.

Also, here: http://www.performance2and4.co.uk/993_1_n.htm
refers to it as varioram, which from memory is written somewhere on the engine (probably induction).
Here are details of how it works: http://www.instant-g.com/Products/36...sion/VRAM.html

Hope that helps.

....so the porsche manual that i have in my hand must be wrong then !

Crikey, us Ducati owners really know our stuff :rolleyes:

I don't think this is really helping in terms of buyer information, but since you asked here goes.

I can only think your referring to a 996, as the 993 definitely does not have variable cam timing.
I was so certain that I have gone and checked the owners manual for my car, and the various porsche books I have.
The real killer though is that I happen to have a full set of original porsche service manuals, and can categorically confirm there is one cam per cylinder head, one drive sprocket per cam, and each cam is driven by its own dual chain from the intermediate shaft, which is directly driven by the crank.
no variable valve timing anywhere in any of that.
if you want to check, this is Volume 1 - general engine, section 15. There is a nice diagram on page 15-15.

Now in the same volume of the manual, in section 24, page 24-11, there is an exploded diagram of the varioram sytem and it is entitled '911 carrera [RS] engine with varioram induction system'.

I also have a copy of PorschePET, the electronic parts catalog. nowhere does it have a link to 'variocam' for the 993 when searched.

FYI Variocam adjusts the timing between the intake and exhaust cams, as first used in the 968, and then used in the 996 (a different type of system though, called variocam-plus). Given that the 993 only has 1 cam per cylinder bank it is imposible for it to have variocam ;)

try doing a google for 993 variocam and it saysdid you mean varioram...

Do I win a prize for being technical geek/pedant/tosser (delete as appropriate) of the week :D

:o :o

Thanks for all that, I now the in's and outs of the engine.

What are people getting in terms of fuel economy, which I think is a mad question if you want to own a Porsche. But at 20K miles a year it can make a difference.

Cheers

Get one, but IMHO not a boxster. May I suggest one of the last air cooled 911's (3.6 flat six, 280bhp) around M reg, for your budget you may stretch to get a really good model, but you won't be disappointed.

If you pick the right model, a Porsche will provide as reliable a super car as one good wish for.

Soft tops are all typically well engineered, and fuel a econmey not bad at all, say 20-26mpg ish.

Regards.

my 993 C2 gives 24mpg, as I said in a previous post.

The boxsters and 996s are meant to be far more efficient - nearer 30mpg from memory.
Last time I visited the main dealers they had an article saying on a road test the boxster was more fuel efficient in town than the SLK and some other convertible too.

At this stage if I were you I'd go test drive one. The new ones drive just the same as the older ones, its only the equipment and finish that has altered.
At least you'll know whether its worth still considering or not.

If you have the money to buy one yo won't regret it, and itwill probably depreciate less than any other car for similar money.

Honda NSX maybe.

Buy the most expensive 911 you can afford, surely, not a convertible. IMHO

Booked myself a test drive on Monday Evening, so looking forward to that. At least i'll know whether I like it or not :)

Took it out for a test drve yesterday:), it was like slipping into a well fitted glove. It just felt right and was effortless to drive, not as harsh as ride as I expected.

It's a very late 07 with only 10K miles and pretty much fully loaded from what I can tell. Only issue was the price, they have a finance deal so you only pay for half the car then decided what you want to do at the end of the term.

Dilemma - Lovely car lots of money

Confused dot com :confused:

Hopefully the picture is attached !!

Anyone know a good insurance company for this type of car?

Cheers

very nice!! Yep, any of the compare sites; money supermarket, compare the meekat, confused, go compare

watch the finance rate on those deals tho, as you pay on all the outstanding and 'can' work out expensive. Think about a GAP policy too or, worst case, you end up with a large outstdning amount!!

Nice car. Right choice?

Lots of rules about buying Porsche, like service history is essential for resale. Colour is also important - the less common colours are less common for a reason and particularly with less common seat colours, they can become hard to sell on. What you might think is 'different' others think is plain ugly. There is a huge amount of choice of models and extras, more than Ducati if that's possible. Look at lots of them, they are never the same car, there's always something different -C2 or C4, hard or soft top, manual or tiptronic, body kits, seat colours, carbon/leather/alloy packs, dial colours, satnav, the list goes on and on. So take your time to find the right car, it took me over six months and I looked at loads. It's like houses, you like the bathroom in one and the kitchen in another and the garden in another - if only you could combine all three - well you can if you keep looking.

It's a massive buyers market and prices have fallen through the floor so there are some amazing cars for silly money around. Later 993's have held their value better, run of the mill 996's have fallen dramatically, unless they are top quartile models.

I can see from the photo it looks like it could be an OPC ie a proper porsche garage - if so, there will be a large premium on the price. The finance package being offered is not for everyone, think carefully if this is really for you. Try the independent Porsche garages for better selection of used cars in your budget. Aftercare is always an option with buying from a garage and recommended with a used Porsche - there are 'known faults' with some models that can be expensive to fix. There are specialist who do Porsche pre-purchase inspections and give you a list of faults - worth paying for. The AA etc don't have the Porsche knowledge, so go with a specialist, there's plenty on the Porsche forums.

There are crazy private deals at the moment from people who need the cash.

the Boxter vs 993 vs 996/7 arguement rages more than the Ducati 996 vs 999 vs 1098 or the red v yellow debate. They are all nice cars, although I find some of them very bland, eg a dark blue standard 996 is just boring to me, but the same car in silver with the GT3 kit is an awesome vehicle. They always say the Boxter choice just shows you can't afford the 993/996 which to me is nonsense and usually comes from someone who has not sat in one let alone driven one, they are awesome and beautiful cars - if the 911 didn't exist, people would think the Boxter was the car it actually is. The 993 is a classic, but not for everyone. There are loads of 996's, but a different driving experience.

Hard vs soft top always an arguement, C2 or C4 (four wheel drive) is a different drive, manual vs tiptronic - manual preferred by the driving purist, but the tip is a great gearbox, very smooth and quick change and doesn't zap power unless you drive on the limit all the time and you have the option of manual change with the buttons on the steering wheel.

I could go on. Go on the Porsche forums and read read read, look at loads of models, drive them, forget the first one you have seen.

WeeJohnyB

Thanks for all the advise.
That is a problem liking the first one you see as you have nothing to compare it too, however it could be the best car and you miss it :puzzled: The car is from an official Porsche dealer so I know I'm paying a premium.
Their finance deal is the thing that worries me the most, other than that the car is stunning, drives like a dream and felt right.

Looking fuel costs for the year was a daft thing to do as I now know how expensive the petrol will be :eek: Variance from what I'm paying now to the Porsche is the price of a good holiday, but you only live once :puzzled:

I'm now going mad

i'm not too clued up on Porsche but a mate of mine has a Boxter S, the 3.2
I think it's a 2000 V plate. Fuel economy is better than my Golf 4motion though!! High 20's low 30's on a run.
It's a lovely car. I think it's about 80k miles and it's tight as a drum. Servicing isn't bad at a local specialist.
It drives great. Handling is sweet as you like and i've heard a few people prefer them over the 911 as it's more balanced with the engine mid mounted.
One thing he likes over the 911 is it's got 2 boots. Front and rear. I know you've got the back seats in the 911 but he finds it a great benefit when he does his annual driving holidays.
I'm not a great fan of rag tops tbh, but the handling argument is the big debate point between boxster/911 ownership from what i can gather. The newer 911's are about as sorted as they'll get by now but they cost. But for hard top options there's also the mid engined caymen??

STAY AWAY from the finance deal!!! Waste of money, much cheaper to get a loan direct from your bank, with your mortgage. - Finance deals are targeted directly to help the IMPULSE buy!!

Softtop Boxster??, I just couldn't do it to myself, it has an image problem.

911Virgin.com has loads of answers.

I agree with WJB on the OPC centres too, there are loads of private and Ind deals out there.

Good luck

ok Paul, from the hip

Forget the car you have seen. You won't "miss it" It is almost certainly expensive from the OPC. I would not recommend buying from an OPC unless buying new (I wish.....997 Turbo please).

That car is extremely common, there will be loads and loads of them exactly the same, but some might have a lower price, better service history, some added extras you like etc, so you have a choice. Even after a few weeks of looking and you still think the garage and finance and car are the ones you have seen already, I would almost guarantee the same car will still be on the forecourt - not much is selling at the moment. Even if it's not, another identical car will be along the following week.

There are loads of specialist Porsche centres that deal only in used Porsche and cost a lot less and servicing can be less than half the labour rate per hour. Look one up on Google or ask on one of the Porsche forums like http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/default.asp easy to register for free and ask all the questions you need to, plenty of other porsche forums

Don't touch the finance deal with a barge pole. Go on one of the comparison sites and get a loan if you need one or add to your mortgage at cheap rates.

You're worrying about the wrong thing if you are thinking about petrol costs. You can get late 20's if driven well. Depends what you want the car for. I don't often drive it fast, I love the look and feel of the car and use the tiptronic most of the time. If I want a blast, switch to manual and we're off:devil:

No point is buying a 'dream car' if you don't get that sinking feeling in your stomach every time you look at it or drive it, so take you time and get the right one, there's no rush, but please forget the one you have seen, waste of money and better ones out there no doubt.

As for Boxter, I hear all the arguements and agree it has a bit of an image problem, but with the roof down, gun metal grey colour, 'S' version (don't buy the non 'S'), it's a lovely car to look at and drive.......but you'll pull up next to a 911 and go "oh boolocks - wish I'd spent a couple of quid extra and gone for the daddy"

WeeJohnyB

i personally don't know what all the fuss is about with the boxster. i had the S version, i couldn't afford a 911, but it was simply the must fun i've ever had on four wheels.

the roof never leaked, it never missed a beat, and I was lucky enough to find one with every conceivable extra.

the right car will come along, and like dukes, a FSH is essential.

agree with comments above, finance is silly. spend your 15k and if you don't like it, flog it next year, you'll not lose much.

agree with WJB, "nice safe" colours are essential, and silver will never look naff.

we only flogged ours coz we had kids, i was in tears...

magpie.

Sound advise, thanks

The boxster is the one we like for that top down drive not just because the 911 is out of reach.

As they say, 'Keep them peeled'

Check the costs of replacement tires....OUCH.

BUT don't buy it for practical reasons, enjoy it!

oh yes, been there, got the cheque book out and ouch, lots of money if all four need replaced. Another example of 'common fault sir' - the alignment goes out on the 996 and you have to get on the ground/under the car to look at the inside of particularly the rear as what looks like loads of tread on the outside two thirds of the tyre can be near bald on the last third. Needs the geometry done. Too heavy with the right foot and the rears won't last long, slightly better in the C4. No idea what Boxter is like on tyres

WeeJohnyB

you'll get a great Boxster for £15k, go for the 3.2 and try to get a post '05 car they have 287bhp rather than 252-260 of the earlier boxster.
Roof doesn't leak, good mpg (average 27-28) insurance is not mad.
Tyres are £120 each front, maybe £170 each rear but they last well, stick to Conti's to help when you come to resell. Handling is excellent.
No drama's sometimes elec motors for windows etc go but thats any car.
OPC labour charges are high but service isn't bad, local independant charges £362 + VAT for the BIG service. Bargain! Check out www.zentrum.co.uk top guys top service.
anyway recommended, buy one and have fun!
My hairdresser had 2 ferrari's so I'm happy when people call it a hairdressers car :)

The amount you spend on your hair, he can afford two ferrari's! :D

Hello all,

been away for a while,, long story,
Porsche, umm have a look at this little gem, a proper one!!
A 550 Spyder 1959 all fully re built.
On a completely different note, has there ever been any more talks of a factory visit again??

Enjoy the pictures, oh and it is very fast!!

pictures soon, having to resize but trying to remember how to do it.
Computers, umm, engines, no worries

Just an update
Finally got the car we love. After trailing through the used adds and a few visits to potential cars we ended up with the original motor.

The OPC came back with a really good deal as it was getting to the end of the month :D

Had it a few weeks now and have managed to get the top down. What a great car, can't wait now for the summer months to come back. :)

Nice one Paul.