Ducati Performance cdi on Ebay
 

Do not think these will hang around for very long.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ducati-perform...p3286.c0 .m14



Chris:burn:

Would these things fall foul of the 'no alteration of ignition timing' rules?

No, lots of folk are using them. They are not adjustable

mmmmm!
 

So would it be ok to advance the ignition timing on my 620 by a fixed amount but not by means of a FIM thingy?

My understanding was that any messing with the ignition timing was against the rules, (I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't actually read the latest version).

To save you looking, but you should really read the rules.;)

Class A

1.6.31 Ignition/Engine Control System

Ignition/engine control system (ECU) may be modified or changed. Any alteration that allows the number of degrees of spark advance beyond the manufacturers standard specification is not allowed.

The use of flash memory (‘flash RAM’) for fuel injection mapping is allowed. An additional control unit to change the fuel mixture may be fitted.


Chris:burn:

You might want to read the rules then!
Section 1.6.31 might be of interest
http://80.84.54.106/showthread.php?t=78024

edit... ChrisP, you're just too quick for me this eve!!

Now that makes a change!

:D :D :D


Chris:burn:

Class A

1.6.31 Ignition/Engine Control System

Ignition/engine control system (ECU) may be modified or changed. Any alteration that allows the number of degrees of spark advance beyond the manufacturers standard specification is not allowed.


So does this mean physically altering the original engine parts is a no-no?


The use of flash memory (‘flash RAM’) for fuel injection mapping is allowed. An additional control unit to change the fuel mixture may be fitted.



FIM ignition maps are ok?
As are devices to alter fuel mapping?

My understanding of the rules that have been in place for some time with regards ignition timing is that it should remain standard, obviously anyone using an FIM 59U ECU could alter it easily enough and if protested may well get away with it if the equipment isn't available for checking it,

But with the AL-9000 units which I assume alter the advance over standard as they are advetised as variable advance units for improved output at low or High RPM depending on which ones are used (DP part numbers 965017AAA /96501699C also 09098/09099/09117)

http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/ignition.htm

I would have thought anybody using them would be leaving themselves open to a £50 protest under rule 1.6.31 that as Chris points out uses the phrase.


Any alteration that allows the number of degrees of spark advance beyond the manufacturers standard specification is not allowed.

Also makes you wonder what else may have been done to an engine if these units need to be used

Out of the 2 class B bikes from Oxford I know for a fact that they are both run standard units one of which was good enough for 1m 50s laps at Cadwell

My understanding of the rule was that ANY alteration to the ignition timing was NOT allowed, hence the use of the phrase
'Any alteration that allows the number of degrees of spark advance beyond the manufacturers standard specification is not allowed'.
I'm obviously not a qualified engine tuner but what would be the point of altering something if the rules state they should stay standard.?
Surely that means standard to the original machine spec and not ANY Ducati.!

Wouldn't advancing the ignition timing mean high octane fuels or additives and other things that are against the spirit as well as DD rules?

But what is the standard specification?
Is it a fixed number, or is there a +/- that you can work between?

.The variance/tolerance of electronic ignition is normally quoted as plus or minus revs at a fixed number of degrees of adavnce.

On a 900 (haven't got my 600 manual to hand)
@1700 revs + or - 200rpm the advance is 6 degrees
from 1700 to 2600 rpm + or - 300rpm the ignition timing advances progressively to 32 degrees and can be checked with a strobe against the timing marks on the flywheel

So whats all the fuss, if anything is strobed and reads in the region of 32/34 degrees of advance. thats ok.

Going over that you need some good fuel to prevent detonation.
Look at the bikes no one is streets ahead so lets just get real.

We have had the humped pistons and big valve heads. We need something really radical now in the same guise as a normal motor. :D

Phil
Whats the get real comment about
Other DD competitors have asked about the use of such things and the rules about standard timing are set out in black and white.

I have tried to answer some of the questions asked

I have known for sometime riders are using them but they do so at the risk of somebody protesting them.

I was told at the start of the season we would be having a dyno at one round and I still live in hope that we will and if such units did give an advantage hopefully the dyno operator would pick up on it.

Next year the rules may include wording such as the use of AL-9000 igniters are not allowed, that would make it less of a gray area.

But are you honestly telling me all the people that have invested in these units are not doing so in the hope to gain an advantage no matter how small, otherwise why do they bother as there have been plenty of standard units for sale on Ebay over throughout this year

Having never tried them on either a standard engine or a tuned up one I have no personal knowledge of what they offer and am very sceptical of them doing anything worthwhile for a standard engine, but as its a topic that other brought up I may do some asking around in case a protest is lodged

Sorry Kev I didn't mean to seem antagonistic. I borrowed at snett last year a pair of AL 9000 which only proved that my standard units were useless. I then bought a pair of used units from Karl Harrison near snett. I could race at last.

I don't believe AL9k offer anything but durability/reliabilty over std. They don't make the engine knock so I think they are in the advance curve of acceptibility.

I wouldn't ever buy secondhand off the bay for these units as they are sealed and can fail; so you don't know what you are getting.

Set an advance curve in the regs for next year, but you must have a tolerance to cater for checking equipment.

My bike on last dyno before latest exhaust was 46RWBHP, FFS. Will that Zorst bring it to 53? I don't think so.

We never used these on our championship winning class B bike and our bike was pulling around 52 RWHP after we fitted the Micron exhaust system. It had a dynojet 2 jet fitted and K&N Filter together with the super-smooth exhaust system, thats it. It was quite a loose motor too!

Built totally in the spirit of Class B, we brought a road bike of Skids, removed the lights, fitted a fairing and better suspension / brakes and tweeked the motor as above. Then thrashed the wheels off it :)

Andy